| Author | Message | ||
     TomD Citizen Username: Tomd Post Number: 427 Registered: 5-2005  |
cons...not funny What do you want? You want permission to attack Iran? Why? Because they enriched uranium? So did Pakistan (which, I believe, has a very non-democratically elected leader-note the uniform). So did North Korea. Do you want the UN to push Iran? This administration worked so well with the UN in the past that I'm certain that will be a success. You want to attack because they called for the destruction of Israel? Who hasn't? If we had to attack every country that called for the destruction of Israel we'd be in a state of perpetual war. Hamas, Libya, Syria (?) still don't recognize Israel's "right to exist," as ridiculous as that sounds. Egypt recognized Israel in '79; Jordan in '94. And this isn't Israel. Just because one country doesn't like another country, it doesn't mean that we have to do anything. One of Ameica's great mistakes is thinking that it should stick its nose everywhere in the world. Sometimes that doesn't make things better; sometimes it makes things worse. Who cares if Iran calls for the destruction of Israel (yet again)? They're not big fans of the US either. But inflamatory rhetoric is not reason to do something (else) stupid. It sounds like a argument third graders would have: Timmy doesn't recognize Billy's right to exist and Billy's my friend so I'm going to punch Timmy in the head. Two key points: 1. Timmy may just be shooting his mouth off and 2. Billy may be able to kick Timmy's ••• himself. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1241 Registered: 10-2004  |
Foj - thats exactly why the leak issue was escalated by the CIA to call for a criminal investigation. Bush is an imposter as a president. A man who has done far more damage, along with a willing republican congress then any enemy of state every could. In my opinion as leaker in cheif he is a traitor to this country. Its too bad no one has the moxie to really put this buffoon where he belongs. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7125 Registered: 10-2001  |
Actually Rastro's is more on target...Phenixrising's was a bunch of anti-U.S bull crap. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 353 Registered: 5-2005  |
Why is anyone even listening to the libs at this point? All of you were wrong, wrong, wrong on Iraq. Now you want us to listen to you on Iran? Thank God our president isn't listening. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4283 Registered: 12-2001  |
We could mount a conventional punitive military mission to destroy all Iranian nuclear facilities without necessarily toppling the government. It would involve ground and air forces. However, this would probably leave us in a worse position than is currently the case. Russia and China would mostly likely sit on the sidelines criticizing us and perhaps providing troublesome MANPADS to our opponents. Meanwhile, China would be reaping the fruit of anti-American sentiment throughout the world. As far as support for Israel is concerned, if it ever comes to pass that most Americans come to view Israel as a foreign policy liability, support will vanish. The simple fact is that we support Israel for reasons of domestic politics, just as we oppose Cuba for reasons of domestic politics. It has nothing to do with global Realpolitik concerns. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1587 Registered: 9-2004  |
anti-U.S bull crap?  Truth hurts eh? Its all about energy control in the middle East buddy! | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5577 Registered: 8-2003 |
"The core issue is the American administration’s desire to control the Middle East and its energy natural resources (oil in the Gulf and rich uranium Iran) to monopolize the global energy market." That is one of the dumbest and most cliched piece of foreign policy analysis I've seen in a while. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 354 Registered: 5-2005 |
and it's dumb and cliched in such a self-evident way that none of us even needs to have an argument to rebut it. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7126 Registered: 10-2001 |
THIS JUST IN: TEHRAN, May 2 (Reuters) - Iran will target Israel first if the United States does anything "evil", a senior commander in the Iranian Revolutionary Guards said on Tuesday. The United States says it wants Iran's nuclear standoff with the West solved diplomatically but has refused to rule out military action. "We have announced that wherever America does something evil, the first place that we target will be Israel," Revolutionary Guards Rear Admiral Mohammad-Ebrahim Dehqani was quoted as saying by Iran's student news agency ISNA. The Islamic Republic has never recognised Israel and Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has called for the Jewish state to be "wiped off the map." Dehqani said naval wargames held in the Gulf last month "carried the warning to those countries that threaten Iran, including America and the Zionist regime". Experts said the wargames, in which Iran said it had tested new missiles and torpedoes, were a thinly veiled threat that it could disrupt vital Gulf oil shipping lanes if it was attacked. still a big joke for the libs, I'm sure. | ||
| drewdix Citizen Username: Drewdix Post Number: 1171 Registered: 7-2001 |
cjc, The PNAC tells us this. Our objectives in the M.E. are not the result of dumb cliched analysis, much as you'd like to dismiss it. No analysis necessary. | ||
| TomD Citizen Username: Tomd Post Number: 428 Registered: 5-2005 |
How is this news? There's nothing "new". If the US attacks Iran, would you expect them to do nothing? To welcome us as liberators? So...if US attacks Iran, then Iran attacks Israel. Does that mean that if the US doesn't attack Iran, then Iran doesn't attack Israel? So, ok...how about we don't attack Iran? Or is that crazy liberal thinking? | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5346 Registered: 10-1999  |
Nobody says that it's a joke. It's also not surprising. If the U.S. says that we will not rule out military action, then we have to expect that the Iranian government would respond with a counter-threat. They can't reach us here, but they can reach Israel. It's the old game of "mutually assured destruction" (which the U.S. developed with the Soviet Union), updated for the Middle East. That gets back to the original question - for those who propose military action by the U.S. now, how do you suggest to go about that? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1243 Registered: 10-2004 |
Straw, what would you do? You havent answered the question except to incite, criticize and call names. What do you want the US to do? Answer Foj's questions. Can we actually 'win' a war like this? Is war absolutely necessary or are these just incendiary words that hold nothing but empty threats? You tell me, because all of the case against the war, all of the case against the US being an imperialist power is out there. All of the case that we can not afford to go to war is out there. Of course you dont feel it because todays Americans were not asked to sacrifice (except of course for our troops and their families) but we have borrowed money to finance this war up to our ears. Its your child that will be paying Straw, and mine too. I feel sorry for you truly. One day you will wake up and realize how betrayed you are by the very people you now trust. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7127 Registered: 10-2001 |
I've already stated what I would do. The Iranian government must be removed and the Nuclear facilities attacked....We then walk away and tell the Iransians and all Muslims this is pretty much how it's going to be from this point forward.. No more Mr. nice guy.. ALL this with or without the UN, This with or without Israel's help. Iran cannot have a bomb...period. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1244 Registered: 10-2004 |
that is not very deep thinking Straw. What consequences are you ready to receive? | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5348 Registered: 10-1999 |
So, the "conservative" plan is to play "chicken", not with our own lives, but with the lives of Israelis. Hopefully, there's a smarter plan out there. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1588 Registered: 9-2004 |
One day you will wake up and realize how betrayed you are by the very people you now trust. Hoops, Well said! The American people have been lied to by this administration. Sadly, you still have folks who've been "brainwashed" enough in they're thinking that "all is good" with this adminstration. Just look at this presidents approval ratings (32%)! And what about North Korea? I would worry more with them than Iran. We don't know how far ahead they are with their nukes. Academic Claims N.Korea Has Seven Nukes A U.S. expert on inter-Korean relations says there is a high possibility that Pyongyang already has six to seven nuclear bombs. The remarks by Prof. Bruce Cummings of the University of Chicago came in a Seoul-Washington Forum that opened in the U.S. capital on Monday. Also participating in the forum was former U.S. assistant secretary of state for Asia-Pacific James Kelly. Kelly stressed the importance of direct contacts between North Korea and the U.S, saying that without such contacts the six-party nuclear talks would lose their momentum. He said “tragic situations” can always occur, although chances are low of a military clash with the communist regime. ******************************** You threaten a country with military action, what do you expect them to do? Of course they’re going to spew threatening rhetoric towards to the U.S. And, use this rhetoric to recruit insurgents that WILL threaten the American public and Western interests. If the roles were reversed, I bet we would be singing a different tune. and straws plan is almost laughable! So simplistic. But what do we expect from a simple mind? | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7128 Registered: 10-2001 |
Iran cannot have a nuclear weapon...period. If you find this issue laughable, you're clueless. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1590 Registered: 9-2004 |
It's not the issue thats laughable, its your plan! The Iranian government must be removed and the Nuclear facilities attacked....We then walk away and tell the Iransians and all Muslims this is pretty much how it's going to be from this point forward.. Yeh… RIGHT! You cannot be this clueless that a plan such as this would evolve? LOOK at Iraq!  | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 965 Registered: 2-2004 |
Phenix, What is your cutoff point. What does your meaningless polling number of 32% mean? This President was re-elected, but you seem to forget this. In your opinion should we do away with elections and simply go with approval ratings? If we asked every President to resign who dropped below 50% then we'd be changing the executive branch every few months. I feel your anxiety over your view no longer holding any sway but please don't lose all sense of reality like many other libs have. You can still hold out hope that you guys will regain power one day. In the meantime I guess I you have to rely on is polling data that is meaningless. And do me another favor. Keep a watch on the numbers. As troops start coming home and the Repubs begin to actually campaign I hope you continue to tout the polls even as they rise. Of course, something tells me you won't. I understand we all use numbers only when they help us. While your worried about polls I'll be looking to get 271 electoral votes. See the difference? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1245 Registered: 10-2004 |
Southerner - you are in the wrong thread. According to this thread troops are not coming home, ever. They are going into Iran. If you seriously think that America will stay asleep you are mistaken. What I find outrageous is that you and the rest of the we won so shut up crowd dont care that the people you voted for are frauds, liars, criminals and imposters. How can you, if you are conservative, support the borrow and spend policies of this administration? If you are a republican how can you support the exponential expansion of the federal beaurocracy and if you are an American how can you support the incompetant appointees, mostly straight out of the associated industries that the federal agencies are supposed to oversee? How can you support a congress that abdicated its oversight responsibilities, refused to investigate its own members misconduct, and wouldn't even look into financial mismanagement of the war spending? Oh thats right, you got a tax rebate. Well arent you happy as a clam. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4285 Registered: 12-2001 |
It may well be that Iran cannot be permitted to have nuclear weapons. It is equally the case that we cannot attack Iran, destroy the government and leave. So, any military option must be thoroughly understood in terms of the long-term cost and fallout. This was not done prior to our invasion of Iraq and we are living to regret that oversight. I suspect that we will have to learn to live with a nuclear-armed Iran. The military option will be a disaster for us. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7129 Registered: 10-2001 |
Southerner, Phenix has no plan.. He's going to sit and ignore the situation just like the liberals did after AL Qaeda kept striking us in the 90's. Oh, the libs will tell you Iran can't have weapons but they won't do a damn thing about it. Once Iran has nuke weapons, the libs will simply blame the GOP. If of course, the GOP led U.S reacts and removes the threat the libs will cry, no war for oil.. As I've said more than once. Liberals are the biggest god damn morons on the face of the planet.. A bunch of pointless clowns. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5349 Registered: 10-1999 |
Goodness gracious, I hope that you are not referring to anybody on this thread.  | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1246 Registered: 10-2004 |
When faced with logic and facts Straw counters with emotion and insults. - much like his hero president bust. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1591 Registered: 9-2004 |
Southerner Have you just crawled from underneath the rock? The 32% unfavorable ratings is the present not the past! If we asked every President to resign who dropped below 50% then we'd be changing the executive branch every few months. Who talked about resigning? And do me another favor. Keep a watch on the numbers. As troops start coming home and the Repubs begin to actually campaign I hope you continue to tout the polls even as they rise. Of course, something tells me you won't. I understand we all use numbers only when they help us. While your worried about polls I'll be looking to get 271 electoral votes. See the difference? huh? Did I say I was worried about the polls? I beleive I only used the polls once as a reference that the American people have become dissatified with this president and his response to Iran could come into question.. I think you've lost touch on this thread. Please try to keep up with the topic. The topic once again…Iran/now what libs? | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1704 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think we should invade Iran (population 68 million spread over 1.6 million square kilometers) with too few troops and no plan to get out, once we are totally withdrawn from Iraq (population 26 million spread over 437,000 square kilometers), which should be any day now. The troops will be fresh as daisies and ready to go. After all, history tells us that Middle East wars and battles are quick and rarely incur lasting problems. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7130 Registered: 10-2001 |
or we can simply nuke them...Saves having to invade. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1592 Registered: 9-2004 |
As I've said more than once. Liberals are the biggest god damn morons on the face of the planet. Sounds like a personal attack! Oh Dave? Ahhh… I must be right. I'm getting to the straw man!  The military option will be a disaster for us. BINGO! | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7131 Registered: 10-2001 |
Iran is getting to me, not you. You don't matter, a nuclear Iran matters. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1705 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nuking is an option, though the image of children running down the road with their skin on fire doesn't quite excite me as much as it might many conservatives. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1248 Registered: 10-2004 |
So let me understand your position Straw. Its ok for us to use nuclear weapons, killing thousands of people immediately, causing radiation poisoning that will carry cancers and other serious diseases throughout that region of the world killing thousands upon thousands more in the name of stopping nuclear proliferation? Please change your name to Dr. Strangestraw. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7132 Registered: 10-2001 |
"Its ok for us to use nuclear weapons," If need be, yes it is. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1593 Registered: 9-2004 |
or Dr. Strawstuck-in-the-brain! Hoops, Your imagery is compelling. Let us not live to see this happen, especially to the innocent men, women and children of Iran (politics aside).  For a human being to THINK "just NUKE them" is deplorable and sick. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1249 Registered: 10-2004 |
Agreed. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 355 Registered: 5-2005 |
Straw is the only one brave enough to say the obvious. Nuking Iran is not only the prudent option to preserve our safety and that of Israel, but it's the best way to show the rest of the world why no country should ever use nukes on another. Only the U.S. can be trusted to use nuclear weapons properly, and if it takes a nuclear strike to demonstrate it, that's what has to be done. | ||
| Darryl Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7133 Registered: 10-2001 |
Right, better to simply turn our back and hope it goes away... libs..idiots. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1594 Registered: 9-2004 |
Is it me or does anyone else notice when straw is losing the fight, GOP man pops out defending him with the same sad rhetoric? They must be on speed dial to each other, or, are they one of the same (altered ego)? | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5578 Registered: 8-2003 |
To win a fight, you have to be in it, first of all. Talking paired with hope doesn't equal participation nor is a positive outcome likely. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1706 Registered: 5-2001 |
The best thing about the nuke option is that it would have absolutely no repercussions for the US. |
