| Author | Message | ||
     Twokitties Citizen Username: Twokitties Post Number: 436 Registered: 8-2004 |
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-05-10-nsa_x.htm Something to think about the when you call Mom on Mother's Day (and the next time you write a check to Verizon.) | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1318 Registered: 10-2004  |
isnt there a privacy provision in the contract with Verizon and other phone carriers? Can they be sued for giving our records away? | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3330 Registered: 9-2001  |
Sigh. Once upon a time in America, real Conservatives would be having pink conniptions about the potential loss of freedom and the imposition of Big Brother government into our private lives. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3331 Registered: 9-2001 |
The answer, Mr. Hoops, is that they can be sued, and should be sued, but the suit may or may not be successful. It will still cost them beaucoup to defend it, and if successful, the fines will be substantial. This is why Qwest would not go along with the NSA on the request (Google had similar fears in a non-related case). | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 897 Registered: 7-2003 |
Agreed, ESL. The Republican party has strayed so far from it's roots as to be unrecognizable. They finally get a majority and this is what they do with it. . . | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1320 Registered: 10-2004 |
thanks ESL. Now how can I add my name to a class action monster suit that will scare these corporations into obeying the law? and you can call me Hoops, Im not very formal.  | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3433 Registered: 5-2001  |
Some more info...Scary Stuff Questions and answers about the NSA phone record collection program Thu May 11, 7:28 AM ET The National Security Agency has been collecting domestic calling records from major telecommunications companies, sources told USA TODAY. Answers to some questions about the program, as described by those sources: Q: Does the NSA's domestic program mean that my calling records have been secretly collected? A: In all likelihood, yes. The NSA collected the records of billions of domestic calls. Those include calls from home phones and wireless phones. Q: Does that mean people listened to my conversations? A: Eavesdropping is not part of this program. Q: What was the NSA doing? A: The NSA collected "call-detail" records. That's telephone industry lingo for the numbers being dialed. Phone customers' names, addresses and other personal information are not being collected as part of this program. The agency, however, has the means to assemble that sort of information, if it so chooses. Q: When did this start? A: After the Sept. 11 attacks. Q: Can I find out if my call records were collected? A: No. The NSA's work is secret, and the agency won't publicly discuss its operations. Q: Why did they do this? A: The agency won't say officially. But sources say it was a way to identify, and monitor, people suspected of terrorist activities. Q: But I'm not calling terrorists. Why do they need my calls? A: By cross-checking a vast database of phone calling records, NSA experts can try to pick out patterns that help identify people involved in terrorism. Q: How is this different from the other NSA programs? A: NSA programs have historically focused on international communications. In December, The New York Times disclosed that President Bush had authorized the NSA to eavesdrop - without warrants - on international phone calls to and from the USA. The call-collecting program is focused on domestic calls, those that originate and terminate within U.S. borders. Q: Is this legal? A: That will be a matter of debate. In the past, law enforcement officials had to obtain a court warrant before getting calling records. Telecommunications law assesses hefty fines on phone companies that violate customer privacy by divulging such records without warrants. But in discussing the eavesdropping program last December, Bush said he has the authority to order the NSA to get information without court warrants. Q: Who has access to my records? A: Unclear. The NSA routinely provides its analysis and other cryptological work to the Pentagon and other government agencies. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3332 Registered: 9-2001 |
I am not saying that this is happening here right now, but the trend is very disturbing to anyone with a sense of history. The classic definition of a fascist state (which for me also includes Leninist and Stalinist Soviet Union) is when the state security apparatus and large corporations are in cahoots to suppress personal freedoms and liberties. I know that the government has all sorts of power in a data-rich age, and I know we need to root out terrorist operations, but it scares the W out of me to see how the NSA and Bush are acting so irresponsibly. | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7188 Registered: 10-2001  |
right, god for bid we actually catch terrorists before they strike.. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 365 Registered: 5-2005  |
absolutely. there could be hundreds of al Qaeda members in the U.S. right now, and for all we know, they're Verizon or SBC subscribers. if we have to monitor the calls of a few hundred million Americans to find the evildoers, that's something I'm willing to live with. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4892 Registered: 5-2001 |
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| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1950 Registered: 10-2004 |
Straw, you can say you gave away your rights freely. But we all know that they took them from us illegally, and now your just defending "your peeps" as you always do, to make it look like it's all ok. You, my enemy, are a broken record. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1753 Registered: 5-2001 |
Straw, Come out from under your bed. It's really not so bad out here. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3333 Registered: 9-2001 |
Straw, you are not wrong, but you are not right, either. There has to be a sense of proportionality--we cannot justify simply any and all things in the name of chasing terrorists. I think the potential abuse of the government screening all of our calls, or having a database of all of our calls, far outweighs the probability that screening all the calls may catch a terrorist. Under the guise of tracking potential terrorists, the FBI was surveilling the Quakers--why? Simply because they were opposed to the war in Iraq. How that has anything to do with fighting terrorism is beyond conception. How this can lead to intimidation of citizens exercising their legitimate right to protest government policies is far more clear and disturbing. Heck, when the NSA had a transmission from the 9/11 hijackers that "today is the day" (or something like that)--guys they were tracking because they were persons of interest--they blew it and did not translate the message until 9/12. I am not sure that exposing our private calls to potential government abuse would yield any real positive work against terrorists, but I am certain that I do not trust the government to not misuse the data (whether the government is in GOP or Dem hands)--I simply don't trust concentrating that much data and power in any of their hands. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3064 Registered: 5-2004  |
I believe that we should round up everyone in the country. Put everyone into pens. I wouldn't mind sacrificing some of my freedom to know that I am safe, and any right-thinking American would agree. People will be let out, one at a time, after they have undergone an extensive background check including financial, employment, communications, travel, and association records. Build a 20 foot wall around the country first to prevent people from either getting in or escaping. Anyone who wants to enter our country, even US citizens who traveled abroad, will be put in a 24-72 hour quarantine so that similar checks can be performed on their backgrounds. Anyone who has a potential tie to a potential criminal will be imprisoned until they clear their name. Anyone who is thought to have committed a crime will be sent overseas for "questioning" to learn the depth of their crime. When that is done, I will feel safe, and freedom and democracy will be restored in the best country in the world, the great Republic that is the United States of America. There is no measure that is too severe when our freedom and security are at stake. | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7189 Registered: 10-2001 |
"I am not sure that exposing our private calls to potential government abuse would yield any real positive work against terrorists, but I am certain that I do not trust the government to not misuse the data (whether the government is in GOP or Dem hands)--I simply don't trust concentrating that much data and power in any of their hands." Well, I don't know what to say. If someone is calling Yemen 12 times a month I'd like to find out why..I have never nor will I ever fear my Government. I may not agree with every decision but as a law abiding, tax paying American I expect and demand my Government do everything it can to protect me and my children. Catching terrorists is at the top of my list. Never forget the school hostage-murders in Russia.. That stuff can happen here too. The war on terror is not a joke, it's real, very real. It amazes me how many "liberal Americans" just don't understand this. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 367 Registered: 5-2005 |
Real Americans don't call Muslim nations, so we should definitely be hot on the trail of anyone who does. We should all be afraid, very afraid of what these potential evil doers migh do. And only liberal girly-men don't understand this. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1322 Registered: 10-2004 |
Straw - I dont know why you are not sensitive to the erosion of personal liberty but this poem should speak volumes to you. First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a Communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. Pastor Martin Niemöller | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7190 Registered: 10-2001 |
yes, a poem...maybe we can add a line about the twin towers to bring that poem up to date. maybe something like: "Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. especially after 3000 americans were killed in 2001 by filthy unchecked terrorists" | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1325 Registered: 10-2004 |
You miss the point very badly. Planes should be made safe and unable to be hijacked. Guns should be registered and liscensed. Criminal terrorists who masterminded the World Trade center bombing should be hunted down and killed or brought to justice (something your president promised but has applied no importance/priority to). The big brother issue goes directly to the poem however. As a jewish person yourself you should be very concerned whenever your rights are imposed upon. I guess you never learned that lesson. Think this could not happen here? Night by Elie Weisel | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1963 Registered: 10-2004 |
That sounds like the words of complete nationalistic ignoramus who has learned nothing from history. Mark my words, it's people like you who will be the first one goose stepping. Creepy! | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 368 Registered: 5-2005 |
people like me have nothing to fear. we are 100% unquestioningly behind our president and our government. I can see how some of you Bush-hating libs who spend all your time criticizing the U.S. might have something to fear, but I don't. I'm brave enough to say that I'm very afraid of the evil doers and I'm willing to allow the government to do what they need to do to keep me safe. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 14 Registered: 5-2006 |
You're all missing the point. We're listening over here so that we don't have to listen over there, just as we're fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 15 Registered: 5-2006 |
Is that clear? | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2005 |
very well said. the libs would prefer we fight here and listen over there. I'm in favor of listening and fighting, but only in the right places. and if that means listening to everyone, that's what we need to do. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2006 |
Thank you, GOP man. You and I agree on something, even if it's only that Republican conservatives are complete morons and that Democrats don't have a clue. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 902 Registered: 7-2003 |
What is clear is your utter and complete lack of: 1) Understanding the U.S. Constitution, 2) Seeing that this so-called 'war on terror' is not, 3) Basic common sense. I can hear it now . . .boring | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 370 Registered: 5-2005 |
I can't agree with that, but today my president said this:
That's good enough for me, and if it isn't good enough for you, then that means you're an irrational Bush-hater who hates America, and is on the side of the evildoers. 'nuff said. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 904 Registered: 7-2003 |
Wow. . . four lies in one paragraph! That's gotta be a record, even for dubya!! Thanks for that post, GOP man, I will submit it to the Guiness Book of Records ASAP! | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 905 Registered: 7-2003 |
Wow. . . four lies in one paragraph! That's gotta be a record, even for dubya!! Thanks for that post, GOP man, I will submit it to the Guiness Book of Records ASAP! | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7191 Registered: 10-2001 |
man you libs are naive and out of touch.Lucky for you, Americans like me are here to protect the PARL's.. PARL "Pointless American Radical liberal" | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 906 Registered: 7-2003 |
The only ones 'naive and out of touch' are those fools who think this President is really trying to protect them. Five years ago, dubya got on TV and said we will find Osama, dead or alive. That was five years ago. Since then, the excuse factory has kicked into high gear. Some protection. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1968 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks for just a little extra heaping of stupidity Strawman. Also, I've been meaning to ask you; how much are you paying your daughter ding-a-LING to parrot your sentiments and watch your back for you? | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1754 Registered: 5-2001 |
I wanna know how all these conservative scaredy-cats get such a good wireless signals under their beds. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4894 Registered: 5-2001 |
So we're you're willing to sacrifice whatever laws or secttions of the Constitution the President* personally sees fit to ignore, including the right against search and seizure, the right to a fair trial, cruel and unusual punishment, privacy**, the role of representative government (the House and Senate), the role of an independent judiciary as a watchdog... Remind me again what it is we're protecting, other than our own skins? We could have stayed a British colony if we wanted an unaccountable king as leader Footnotes: * At least as long as the President is Republican. ** Right, conservatives don't think we have a right to this in the first place. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 908 Registered: 7-2003 |
In defense of true conservatives, this President is not one of us. He is an impostor. And do not expect an awnser from straw, he's busy changing his diaper. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1970 Registered: 10-2004 |
Did he sh*t himself...AGAIN? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3070 Registered: 5-2004 |
I'm curious how Straw is protecting us. Other than voting for a non-Conservative Republican neo-fascist, what have you, Straw, done to protect us as you claim? "Americans like me are here to protect..." | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1755 Registered: 5-2001 |
Are there any true conservatives? They all seem to be big-government types these days. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 911 Registered: 7-2003 |
Yes, we live! Battered but unbeaten, we believe: -That the government that governs best is that which governs least. -That honesty is the best policy. -That we should beware of foreign entanglements. -That we should run surpluses to pay off the debt. -That the rights of the individual are paramount. So, you see why I call dubya an impostor. . . |
