| Author | Message | ||
     Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 1304 Registered: 9-2004 |
No-- way | ||
| The Soulful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 1886 Registered: 11-2004  |
CLARIFICATION: Not do you WANT her to run but if she was nominated, is there any chance she CAN win... Yes? No? | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3412 Registered: 5-2001  |
No and the Repubs will keep pushing for her nomination cause they know it! | ||
| crabby Citizen Username: Crabbyappleton Post Number: 589 Registered: 1-2004 |
punto! exactemente! | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7184 Registered: 10-2001  |
Not really. Hillary's war chest is quite steep and she is the unknown. She could prove to be a liability or she could actually impress. I would just assume the Democrats go with someone we're a little more familiar with. Kerry or Edwards and obviously Dean are candidates that really don't worry me. Hillary concerns me and I'm a little surprised the Dems aren't moving forward like an army ready to hand her war chest the nomination. | ||
| chroma Citizen Username: Chroma Post Number: 35 Registered: 3-2005 |
But why is Hillary's warchest so loaded? I tend to agree with Nancy. Here's an interesting one... http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12692606/ | ||
| crossroads Citizen Username: Crossroads Post Number: 145 Registered: 12-2001  |
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| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1743 Registered: 5-2001 |
Southerner, I don't think people will mind that he's divorced, but I think it's possible that some people will not like the fact that he had an affair and essentially filed for divorce via the media. Again, this is mainly a primary issue when the holier-than-thou crowd uses its influence. | ||
| Straw Kennedy Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7185 Registered: 10-2001 |
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| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1035 Registered: 2-2004 |
dave, I'll agree with that. But there are always issues in primaries for all candidates from either party. If the only negative for Rudy is his marriage pattern then he is in pretty good shape. I think the fictitious right wing would rather have Rudy and his divorce via the Post than McCain and his political baggage. Now with that being said, I am biased because I want Rudy not McCain. But I will fully support either in the general election. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 908 Registered: 12-2003 |
Divorce may not disqualify Giuliani, but this will:  Bush's slender margin of victory is comprised mainly of people who would have a serious problem with this. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11460 Registered: 5-2001 |
The difference between the current day GOP and the Dems is that the GOP will choose a candidate who can win and support him/her, including opening up the pocketbooks. This is harder to do now that the so called cultural right has a bigger say in the primaries, but it still can and will be done. If Bill Frist has the best chance of winning he will be the candidate. If Rudy G is in that position he will be the candidate. The Dems, however, aren't that well organized and unlike the GOP all their factions will have a say through the primaries. I suspect they will end up picking a candidate, if not Hillary, then Kerry, Gore or Edwards who doesn't have a chance to win. Actually I think Edwards might have a chance so I probably shouldn't have included him in the group.  | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1036 Registered: 2-2004 |
Madden, Maybe in your conceived notions this will be a problem. This was a lark and will be seen that way. If that is all the negatives he has then he is in great shape. BobK, I agree with you. Hillary scares me to a point. Edwards really scares me but something tells me the liberal elite aren't quite ready to nominate a southern boy and admit that I am right. They don't want to be Zell'd again. | ||
| Eats Shoots & Leaves Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 3319 Registered: 9-2001  |
Hillary can claim to be a midwesterner (born and raised in Chicago 'burbs) and a southernor (lived in Arkansas for many years, including Governor's Wife). Watch closely and I bet she lays claim to all these regions. I do think she can win, but only if she can loosen up without imploding, and only if the GOP nominates someone with no charisma, such as Frist. Think of her wooden delivery and stentorial manner during a televised debate--if the GOP candidate is glib and comfortable, she will come off looking as bad as Nixon vs Kennedy or Dukakis vs anyone (or anything, including beige paint drying on a wall). I have serious doubts about her demeanor when governing because she overthinks and over-policies problems. A president should not be as brain-dead as W, but she or he should be able to make quick decisions when needed and have a great instinct for making the right ones. See Carter or Dukakis when compared to Bill Clinton. I am not sure Hilary could make clean, quick decisions when needed. But I do wish she would win for one reason--can you imagine the joy that Bill C. would have redecorating the Presidential Suite and choosing the White House chef? Not to mention being able to chase chambermaids around the White House all day long while Hill is distracted running the country. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 909 Registered: 12-2003 |
Maybe in your conceived notions this will be a problem. And maybe in your conceived notions, it won't. There is a small but electorally important group of nutjobs that think just being from New York makes you gay...this, they will not stomach. And that will be enough to make the difference. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1037 Registered: 2-2004 |
Okay Madden. Then you should be hoping like crazy he gets the nomination. That would be a slam dunk win for the Democrats. You're not related to Schrum are you? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3044 Registered: 5-2004  |
Southerner, As has been pointed out, most people don't know the "pre-9/11" Giuliani. While I do believe he was the right Mayor to follow the abysmal failure that was David Dinkins, Giuliani is a megalo- and ego-maniac. He NEEDS to be in control, which is why I can't see him ever running for any position in Congress, or anywhere he would have to compromise. I do think he could win the GOP primary, but he could be given serious trouble from a swiftboat-type campaign. Most people are not aware of Giuliani's baggage. That does not man it will stay like that during an election. There is quite a lot New Yorkers could tell you (the collective "you") about him that you might not like. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3415 Registered: 5-2001 |
Notice that the only ones pushing for Hillary are the Republicans?? | ||
| The Soulful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 1887 Registered: 11-2004 |
Well put, Nancy. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4876 Registered: 5-2001 |
Try and remember how New York felt about Giuliani on 9/10. Most everybody was pretty tired of him. He made a lot of progress his first term, but he started drinking his own kool-aid and became a martinet who couldn't work with anyone in the departments or city council. The petty squabbles and firings were all about him, and it wasn't good for the city. Also, his proposal to postpone the mayoral election so he could stay in office longer was, to put it mildly, a pretty bad idea for a lot of reasons. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4877 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nancy, maybe we Dems ought to start talking up Alan Keyes, or even Dick Cheney? | ||
| chroma Citizen Username: Chroma Post Number: 37 Registered: 3-2005 |
I'm with you, Nancy (see my last post, above.) Very interesting that Rupert Murdoch is having a fundraiser for her, isn't it? | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1750 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hillary's actually been very successful in making pals across the aisle. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1038 Registered: 2-2004 |
Rastro, I hear you. Here's my take. As you say, no one outside the metro NYC area knows anything about Rudy except he cleaned up NYC and his response to 9/11. Both those are huge pluses for him on a national recognition level. As for the negative stuff, the negativity has been so overplayed (started by the Repubs with Clinton, and taken to a new level by the libs with Bush) that the electorate has become somewhat numb and immune. No candidate will ever again get through a primary or general election without being smeared and swiftboated. This is now par for the course. I just think we as a nation are so use to gutter politics that they no longer have the desired effect by the smearers. The only reason the swiftboaters were able to hurt Kerry was because Schrum was telling Kerry to stay above the fray and not respond initially. That was a strategic mistake by the Kerry camp and made the swiftboaters an every day name. If Kerry had come out swinging from the get go the swiftboaters probably wouldn't have gained traction. Let's face it, everyone expects attacks against each candidate. Unless the libs have a ton of compelling hard evidence the attacks against Rudy will just be seen as business as usual. It's the little boy who cried wolf theory. The Dems have so muddied the waters with the everyday drumbeat against Bush that no one can or cares to decipher the mud from the crap. An example is this latest Hookergate. This could indeed be the big time serious scandal, but no one cares because every week we have one of these. How many attacks that don't work and scandals that don't gain traction will it take for the Dems to realize all they are doing is hurting themselves when a real scandal emerges. With everything Bush has endured do you really think Red America will be stunned to learn that Rudy plays hardball politics in NYC and even had an affair? And if Hillary is his oppisition there will be so much blood in the water none of Rudy's past will matter. That will be a fun campaign but I believe Rudy would turn many more states Red and set the Dems back even further. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 370 Registered: 4-2006 |
Rastro- Guliani stopped the reign of terror of the squee-gie men. They have distinct similarities to Congress so Rudy can claim he will be very effective there. Fact is most non-New Yorkers LOVE the guy. A ticket of Guliani and Mr. Purity, i.e. McCain swamps the dems nation-wide. Kerry was so scared of McCain running against him in what we believed would be his second term he offered him his v.p. spot. Real life is not the " West Wing", if Bush is not running again to be attacked on his record, people in the south and west will still be looking for a Bush-like candidate, i.e. conservative values, respects religion, ain't for that gay marriage thing, etc.. A pro-choice, gay-friendly Guiliani on the ticket re-assures social liberals in the northeast and various special interest groups that McCain won't impose socially draconian laws or prohibit abortion. Dems have a lot of problems if Hillary is heading the ticket then. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1040 Registered: 2-2004 |
The above post simply means the country is a majority conservative and there isn't much you libs can do to stop their election. You libs should get use to your minority status. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5592 Registered: 8-2003 |
If Rudy or McCain stay competitive during the primaries, and Hillary wins the nomination (I think that takes place two weeks before Republicans have their convention), then republicans and their base will be able to stomach McCain or Rudy. If Hillary is not the candidate, Rudy and McCain will not get the nomination. And if they do manage to get the GOP nod and aren't running against Hillary, then the base won't feel jazzed enough to come out unless Dems nominate a loon. McCain needs Hillary to win in a very big way. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4879 Registered: 5-2001 |
The country is not majority conservative. Look at the votes for sentors and congressmen, and also for president, over the last few election cycles. It splits right down the middle. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2006 |
A pro-choice, gay friendly Republican has great chances of being elected in NY, NJ, VT, MA, NH, perhaps CA, OR, or WA state, but not a chance in hell on a national Republican ticket for anything, even dog catcher. The fundamentalist right phalanx will squash any such candidate like a cockroach. Look at the 2004 platform of the Texas Republican Party for a good example. It reaffirms the status of the United States as a Christian nation, regrets the myth of the separation of church and state, calls for abstinence instead of sex education, and broadly and specifically (Texas being an oil state) demands the abolition of the Energy Department and the Environmental Protection Agency. Giuliani (let's also spell his name right-- that'll be enough to scare off most heartland republican morons) won't make any national ticket in this country unless it's a Democratic or some 3rd party ticket,because he's divorced, he's pro-choice, he's not anti-gay, and he's big city ethnic, all factors that will keep him off a Republican ticket. Oh, and he has a good education too, and believes in evolution rather than creationism or intelligent design. Giuliani on a national Republican ticket in today's Republican Party? He has a better chance of winning the Powerball Lottery. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 376 Registered: 4-2006 |
tom- Their base is more organized and more solid than your base. Your base is too diverse in opinions and issues and not as cohesive. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1044 Registered: 2-2004 |
tom, It depends on your definition of majority. I'm looking at the political landscape, not the fact that you guys have millions of Dems living on top of each other in a few mile radius in every major city in this country. I'm talking seats and electoral votes. You Dems should really begin pushing to do away with the electoral college and to restructure the Senate. You know you have thought about a world where only the cities matter. Why not put it into practice. Strawling, You have no clue. You might as well say Cheney will resign for the 10th time. Since I'm sure you voted for Gore and Kerry it shows your political acumen. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 4880 Registered: 5-2001 |
And here I thought that in the U.S. of A. one citizen was as important as another. But I'll stand by my previous statement. I didn't say we were more organized, I didn't say we lived in trailer parks or on farms, I just said that as a citizenry we're split right down the middle liberal/conservative. The fluke of the electoral college system, not to mention yeoman's work in suppressing the urban vote, has given the Republicans a decent though not filibuster-proof majority in the senate and a razor-thin margin in the house. As it stands, the GOP has a majority but not enough to enact any of the bad ideas they've got. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 3 Registered: 5-2006 |
Southerner: You lack brains, insight, and data to support your point of view on Giuliani, and your level of knowledge about the party in the heartland is strong evidence of that. But you just go ahead and prattle on about things you don't know. That's OK. I am a Republican, by the way. Giuliani doesn't fit the demographic the party wants for national office: he doesn't go to church much, doesn't believe in biblical inerrancy, he doesn't carry the bible, he's too ethnic, and he doesn't come from a part of the country that the party faithful will vote for. The only issue he agrees with Bush on, is the fight against terrorists, and that tide will not be enough to lift his boat to the national ticket in 2008. People in the heartland won't even remember 9/11 by 2008. By the way, when did we last see a real ethnic on a national Republican ticket? How about Spiro Agnew, a Greek out of Baltimore. 1968 and 1972. Since then it's been a succession of eiher heartland people (Quayle,Dole, Kemp) or the privileged brahman caste GHWBush and son out of Connecticut, Maine, and "Texas"). I may have no clue, to quote you, but you, my friend, must be inhabiting another planet, and it has mushed up your brain cells. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 4 Registered: 5-2006 |
I did not mention Ron Reagan, born in Illinois, but always associated with California and the Sun Belt. | ||
| The Soulful Mr T Citizen Username: Howardt Post Number: 1891 Registered: 11-2004 |
Interesting piece in the WSJ yestiddy (p A4) about the possibility of an Al Gore run in 2008. He has this new film being releasedand supposedly his profile is higher and better now than ever. I can say "I told you so" about global warming but *I* (me, not the WSJ, etc,) say that Americans don't give a damn about G/W and that won't elect Brother Al a.k.a. "Mr. Ozone." My daughter sid last night, "would you vote for him, Dady?" I said, hell, yes, cupckae, I most certainly would. I'd vote for the Democrat almosy no matter what." I'll ty to find the article on the web and post it. ANyone here have a sub to WSJ online? | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1920 Registered: 10-2004 |
STRAWling wrote: Oh God, I might be sick. So that is what the Republican party stands for??? That is who you support? This is the members of your party? Your kinsmen? You admit this in public? You really are Straw's offspring. It's disgusting. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 1534 Registered: 4-2004  |
No. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 6 Registered: 5-2006 |
Alleygater: Please don't have a coronary on my behalf. Your medical insurance probably doesn't cover accidents or injuries incurred while on MOL. Whether you or I agree with it or not, the party is not the Eastern Urban party it was up through the Eisenhower years. You're criticizing me for stating something that's a matter of fact. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like the message. I didn't say that I liked the trend lines. I have a lot of respect for Rudy Giuliani. My point is that a national Republican ticket has no place for him. The party has gone off in another demographic direction. You might see a Hispanic from Southern Florida or Texas, to get the Hispanic vote. But you won't see an urban ethnic from the east coast, Chicago, Milwaukee, or Detroit. Look for the milk-fed veal represented by Bill Frist, or perhaps a younger Dan Quayle type. | ||
| Alleygater Citizen Username: Alleygater Post Number: 1927 Registered: 10-2004 |
What gives me a coronary is that you freely admit that this is YOUR party. That you associate yourself with people who feel that way, and think nothing of it. It's no big deal. My party is full of religious nut jobs who hate gays, and I'm proud of it. Nice. | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2006 |
Alleygater: "My party is full of religious nut jobs who hate gays, and I'm proud of it." If that's the only problem you have with your party, either you shouldn't be complaining or you don't know the half of what's going on. You should save your coronaries for when you really need them. |
