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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1433
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 10:52 pm: | 
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http://abcnews.go.com/International/Terrorism/story?id=1995529&page=1
In the name of Allah, the compassionate, the merciful. All praise is due Allah, lord of the worlds, and prayers and peace upon the prophets and messengers.
From Usama bin Muhammad bin Ladin to the American people: Peace be upon he who has followed the guidance.
This is a brief message whose topic is my testimony on behalf of the Muslim prisoners you are holding, and in it I will talk about the truth concerning them, which is something that the Bush administration hates and is hostile to.
I begin by talking about the honorable brother Zacarias Moussaoui.
The truth is that he has no connection whatsoever with the events of Sept. 11, and I am certain of what I say, because I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers — Allah have mercy upon them — with those raids, and I did not assign brother Zacarias to be with them on that mission. And his confession that he was assigned to participate in those raids is a false confession that no intelligent person doubts is a result of the pressure put upon him for the past four and a half years.
And were this pressure lifted from him for him to return to his normal state, he would state the fact I mentioned. And among the things that confirm this fact is that the participants in Sept. 11 were two groups: pilots and support teams for each pilot in order to control the aircraft. And since Zacarias Moussaoui was learning how to fly, it follows that he wasn't component No. 20 from the teams that helped to control the airplanes, as your government previously claimed, and your government knows this fact with certainty.
And if Moussaoui was studying aviation to become a pilot of one of the planes, then let him tell us the names of those assigned to help him control the plane. But he won't be able to tell us their names, for a simple reason: that in fact they don't exist. This is from one perspective, and from another perspective, the brother
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sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15080
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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Moussaoui can rot in prison and then in hell. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4974
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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Quote:Moussaoui was arrested two weeks before the events, and had he known anything — however little — about the September 11 group, we would have told the brother Commander Mohammed Atta and his brothers — Allah have mercy upon them — to leave America immediately before their affair was exposed. And with this it becomes clear to even the novice investigator — not to mention the seasoned one — that there is no connection between him and the events of September 11.
I agree Moussaoui can rot, but this is a pretty solid logical argument that he was a poseur as far as 9/11 went. |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15081
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:20 pm: |
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Yeah. Nothing like taking the "logic" of bin laden as golden.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4975
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:26 pm: |
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You're putting yourself in an awkward position by setting this up as a choice where you can either take Moussaoui's word as golden, or bin Laden's word as golden. Neither is a particularly attractive place to be.
Take the text as it's given, and try and make some sense of it without worrying about whose words they are. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1435
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:34 pm: |
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LAFFIN |
Straw Kennedy
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7258
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 6:31 am: |
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Anyone who believes anything Bin Laden says is an absolute moron. |
llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 780
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 7:02 am: |
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There are a lot more morons since we invaded Iraq. In fairness I think we can also add anyone who still supports President Bush as well. |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 5132
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 8:07 am: |
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...lying by omission and guilt by association. Enough said, end of story! |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3209
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 9:32 am: |
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Lying by omission? Huh?
And yes, guilt by association worked very well for Senator McCarthy. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3316
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Anyone who disbelieves everything said by somebody just because of who the speaker is, is an absolute moron.
Perhaps Moussaoui is really quite deeply involved and deserves permanent incarceration or death, but the way we held him (and so many others) is absolutely un-American and shameful. His conduct is one thing. Ours is another. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4976
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Same goes for you, straw; you believe everything Moussaoui said? Oh wait, I'm asking one of the kool-aid klutch to think for himself. My bad. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5646
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
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Osama also bashed Bush and virtually endorsed Kerry which enhances his credibility to many on this board. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3379
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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Why, I bet Kerry carried over 90% of the Muslim Terrorist vote in America. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1487
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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notey-how did we, uh, "hold" Moussaoui the wrong way? He got his trial...if you don't like that America holds terrorists then you may begin thinking about calling for a rewording of the 5th Amendment....
-SLK |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14430
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:09 pm: |
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Art, back to the eighth grade with you. The US constitution guarantees freedom of association and therefore outlaws guilt by association. You probably don't believe this, but this is a benefit to all of us, including you and me.
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3318
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:47 pm: |
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How Not To Fight Terrorism
David Cole
Washington Post
Friday, May 5, 2006; Page A19
excerpt:
The Moussaoui case is emblematic of the administration's approach to fighting terrorism. It has repeatedly overreached and sought symbolic victories, adopting tactics that have undermined its ability to achieve real security while disregarding less flashy but more effective means of protecting us. In the early days after Sept. 11, Attorney General John Ashcroft sought to reassure us with repeated announcements of the detention of large numbers of "terror suspects" -- ultimately the government admitted to detaining 5,000 foreign nationals in the first two years after Sept. 11. Yet to this day not one of them stands convicted of a terrorist offense. Similarly, the administration launched a nationwide ethnic profiling campaign, calling in 8,000 young men for FBI interviews and 80,000 more for registration, fingerprinting and photographing by immigration authorities, simply because they came from Arab and Muslim countries. Not one of those 88,000 has been convicted of terrorism.
Early on, the administration labeled the Guantanamo detainees "the worst of the worst." Yet we now know that more than 250 have been released, that they included boys as young as 13 and that of those who remain, only 8 percent are even accused of being fighters for al-Qaeda. The majority are not accused of engaging in any hostile acts against the United States.
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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 6202
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 4:55 pm: |
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Moussaoui was in Guantanamo? I didn't know that, but then good, I hope they treated him like sh*t there, the way he tried to spit at the families of the victims of 9/11 and cursing at them, etc. in the courtroom. Unspeakable loonie.
Let him rot. |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15082
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 6:25 pm: |
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I agree. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4981
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 6:37 pm: |
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who doesn't? |
ajc
Citizen
Username: Ajc
Post Number: 5134
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 9:31 pm: |
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Tom, my parents always said show me your friends and I'll show you who you are.
FWIW, I told my children the same thing, and now I'll ask you what you would say to your children if they were hanging around with a bunch of known drug addicts?
You probably won't agree, but sometimes it pays to just use common sense and forget all the rhetoric about the US Constitution......
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14437
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 24, 2006 - 9:36 pm: |
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Oh, you're right about that, when judging character. And the company you keep can be not only an indicator of your character but an influence on it.
Maybe I misunderstood you, and if so, I apologize. I thought you were deciding guilt on association. If not, then I was wrong. If I was right, then you are mistaken. A person's guilt is not determined by the company he/she keeps, though it can raise suspicions.
And I believe that "common sense" is an oxymoron. If it were truly common among all of us, we wouldn't have to argue over what it is. Too often, the term is used to say, "just think like me."
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 10:47 am: |
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"Osama also bashed Bush and virtually endorsed Kerry..."
cjc,
Feel free to back this up with an actual quote. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2126
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 12:04 pm: |
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I think this is the quote:
Quote:In conclusion, I tell you in truth, that your security is not in the hands of Kerry, nor Bush, nor al-Qaida. No.
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/79C6AF22-98FB-4A1C-B21F-2BC36E87F61F.htm
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2714
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 12:42 am: |
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It was my understanding that the Administration was against treating Terrorism as a crime and terrorists as common criminals. So why did they put this guy on trial? Why didn't they treat him like a POW or Enemy Combatant? Can someone explain this to me? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11640
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 6:38 am: |
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I think they try people where there is enough evidence to get a conviction, and to build up outrage, but people they don't have evidence against just go to one of our secret prisons or get a bullet in the back of the head.
A show trial now and then is always a good idea.
Does anyone really believe all the stuff Moussaoui claims he did and was going to do? When you have a show trial it is always nice if the perp confesses on the stand. The less than tightly wrapped Moussaoui was more than willing to oblige.
I have no doubt that Moussaoui was on the fringes of Al Qaeda and they probably paid for his flying lessons. However, I really doubt he knew much if anything about 911 and I doubt if he was the twentyith highjacker. |
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