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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4989
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 12:44 pm: | 
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Quote:A federal jury in Houston has just returned its verdicts in the Enron trial. Ken Lay has been found guilty of all charges filed against him, while Jeff Skilling has been found guilty of conspiracy charges but not guilty on insider trading charges. A legal expert tells CNN that Lay will spend the rest of his life in prison if his conviction isn't reversed on apppeal.
Pre-emptively, please don't insult our intelligence with the already discredited talking points that Lay supported Bush's opponents. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2425
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 3:33 pm: |
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Small consolation to those employees of Enron who lost millions in retirement money or the thousands of Anderson employees who had nothing to do with the fraud. Life in jail will not make those people whole again.
I assume the only way to recover any money at all would be to file a civil suit? |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2947
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 3:41 pm: |
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I hear Lay's broke. Wasn't he hiding out in Stone Harbor, NJ for a while? |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 4992
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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I doubt there's any way to make those unfortunate people whole. Where does the money go when a highly valued stock all of a sudden becomes worthless? If you took everything Lay owned and sold it you could probably compensate maybe a dozen employees for their lost pension funds. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2426
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 4:33 pm: |
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tom - I agree that's why this seems like such a slap on the wrist. While the prosecution of those responsible for these corporate scandals has finally become a reality its of no consolation to the affected parties. There should be some way to attach all of the assets that people like Skilling and Lay transferred out of their names when they knew that the •••• was going to hit the fan. I'm sure members of Lay's family aren't exactly starving at this point. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 2037
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
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Lay has salted away about 100 mill and still has three of his six homes. He's not in any pain. And as long as the appeals fail to overturn his conviction, he will get some of what he deserves. The same goes for Skilling, although he is less wealthy, but as a former McKinsey partner he was very well off even before joining Enron.
I hope they enjoy making licence plates and street signs. |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 253
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 6:11 pm: |
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Does this mean he won't get to be a Republican Ranger or a Pioneer anymore? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3238
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 25, 2006 - 8:21 pm: |
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BTW, I just read that the victims got 6.6 billion from the banks involved. I wouldn't mind being their lawyer witha settlment like that!  |
musicme
Citizen
Username: Musicme
Post Number: 1688
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 9:08 am: |
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"God has blessed me and my family enormously. He's been in that courtroom every day. He has a plan and a purpose in this and I have complete confidence it's going to come out fine," Lay said.
Nice to know that I don't worship the same god. |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1505
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 9:32 am: |
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boy, never saw this coming...
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11635
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:05 am: |
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Expect him to be on the pardon list in January of 2009 |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3323
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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Oh man... he wouldn't dare... would he?  |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5654
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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Clinton can't issue any more pardons. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14479
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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Don't ask that question about Bush, notehead.
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3325
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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And that's a good thing. But he's not who we're talking about, cjc, and you know that.
(Right-o, Tom)
To Innis' point (and Sportnut's too)... how can Lay or Skilling be allowed to keep anything beyond the bare minimum to keep their families healthy? I mean, there's no way that all the wealth they stole can ever be fully restored to those it was taken from. The notion of Lay being able to hold onto multiple properties is just disgusting. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5655
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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I'm surprised you'd think that Bush would be the one to pardon Ken Lay when the body of Ken's work was done during the Clinton Administration.
Ken would have good company with some of Clinton's winning pardons like Mel "I Hit the Lotto With that Catholic Girl!" Reynolds, Al Braswell, John Bustamonte (a Jesse Jackson advisor who ripped off estates of the deceased) and Marc Rich.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5001
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:07 pm: |
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ah, so like everything else wrong in this crazy world of ours, the Enron collapse is Clinton's fault. Thanks SO much for clearing that up for us!
edited to add: Jeffrey Dahmer did the majority of his killings between 1989 and 1991. It must be such a burden on Bush Sr. to be responsible for that. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2133
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:08 pm: |
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maybe for this reason:
Quote:Current US president and longtime friend George W. Bush is reputed to have given Lay the personal nickname "Kenny Boy".[3] Lay maintained business and political ties to Republican goverment officials, hiring (for example) James Baker and Robert Mosbacher as they left the Cabinet of President George H. W. Bush (both men lobbied for Enron contracts in the wake of the First Gulf War). Lay was a supporter of Bush for Governor of Texas; in 1999, Bush signed a law deregulating Texas electric markets.[2] A Bush 'Pioneer,' Lay became one of the largest individual contributors to the Bush-Cheney 2000 presidential campaign: his donation history shows $651,760 to Republicans, $61,960 to Democrats, and $62,150 to special interests.[4] Lay served on the Bush-Cheney Transition Advisory Committee, and, according to Kurt Eichenwald's book Conspiracy of Fools, was nearly selected to be Secretary of the Treasury following Bush's victory in the 2000 U.S. presidential election. Ultimately Paul O'Neill was chosen for the position instead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Lay
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sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2427
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:13 pm: |
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At this point who gives a rat's ••• who he contributed to? Do you think that the people who lost their retirement care?
Notehead - unfortunately until the punishment fits the crime people like Lay, Skilling, Kozlowski, et al will continue to do the things they do knowing fully well they'll pay a small fine and at worst go to jail. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2952
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Yeah, Ken Lay of Little Rock. An old Clinton croney. Check. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2134
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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the point is that some people fear that Lay's political connections may enable him to escape punishment for his crimes. I'm not cynical enough to believe Bush would really pardon Lay, but I'm sure some people are. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3328
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 26, 2006 - 1:44 pm: |
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Cjc, you remember when you hit your head and fell down back in 1999? Well, since then somebody else has become President, and Bill Clinton can't pardon anybody anymore. In fact, lots of things have happened since then that Clinton has absolutely no involvement with. Really!
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2722
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, May 27, 2006 - 10:39 pm: |
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I am very glad that President Bartlett pardoned Toby Ziegler. As for any other pardons, I don't really care. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3352
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 9:35 am: |
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Molly Ivins: Closing the book on Enron
Tuesday, May 30, 2006; Posted: 11:50 a.m. EDT (15:50 GMT)
HOUSTON, Texas (Creators Syndicate) -- A Houston jury convicted both Ken Lay and Jeff Skilling, despite the fact that Kenny Boy packed his Bible to the courtroom every day.
Since it is a long and noble Texas tradition for the accused to fight all allegations by finding Jesus, this indicates a major degree of guilt. (While on trial for murder, T. Cullen Davis, the Fort Worth millionaire, not only found Jesus but also threw a big party to celebrate at the mansion, with piles of shrimp and BBQ and a soundtrack that announced over and over throughout the grounds that night, "The son of Stinky Davis has found the son of God.")
Meanwhile, Houston reacted as though the Rockets had won the NBA championship.
Many a thoughtful analyst has given us to understand that Lay and Skilling are guilty of arrogance and hubris. Actually, they were convicted of fraud -- massive, overwhelming and monstrous fraud. They also stole money and looted pension funds. They rigged energy markets and almost drove California (seventh-largest economy in the world) into bankruptcy.
And all along the way, this monstrous fraud was connected to government. Enron bought the politicians who bent the rules that let them steal, con and gyp. Lay and Skilling talked state after state into following the California model and deregulating electricity. Happy summer, everyone.
And then, of course, there was the thumbing-the-nose thievery, the offshore partnerships tricked out with the clever names so insiders would know how slick they were.
As the late Rep. Wright Patman Sr. observed: "Many of our wealthiest and most powerful citizens are very greedy. This fact has many times been demonstrated."
The interesting thing about Lay and Skilling is they weren't trying to evade the rules, they were rigging the rules in their favor. The fix was in -- much of it law passed by former Sen. Phil Gramm of Texas, whose wife, Wendy, served on the board of Enron.
Where does that sense of entitlement come from? What makes a Ken Lay think he can call the governor of Texas and ask him to soften up Gov. Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania on electricity deregulation? Not that being governor of Texas has ever been an office of much majesty, but a corporate robber wouldn't think of doing that if it were Brian Schweitzer of Montana or Bill Richardson of New Mexico.
The extent to which not just state legislatures but the Congress of the United States are now run by large corporate special interests is beyond mere recognition as fact. The takeover is complete. Newt Gingrich and Tom DeLay put in place a system in which it's not a question of letting the head of the camel into the tent -- the camels run the place.
It has all happened quite quickly -- in less than 20 years. Laws were changed and regulations repealed until an Enron can set sail without responsibility, supervision or accountability. The business pages are fond of trumpeting the merits of "transparency" and "accountability," but you will notice whenever there is a chance to roll back any of New Deal regs, the corporations go for broke trying to get rid of them entirely.
I'm not attempting to make this a partisan deal -- only 73 percent of Enron's political donations went to Republicans. But I'll be damned if Enron's No. 1 show pony politician, George W. Bush, should be allowed to walk away from this. Ken Lay gave $139,500 to Bush over the years. He chipped in $100,000 to the Bush Cheney Inaugural Fund in 2000 and $10K to the Bush-Cheney Recount Fund.
Plus, Enron's PAC gave Bush $113,800 for his '94 and '98 political races and another $312,500 from its executives. Bush got 14 free rides on Enron's corporate jets during the 2000 campaign, including at least two during the recount. Until January 2004, Enron was Bush's top contributor.
And what did it get for its money? Ken Lay was on Bush's short list to be energy secretary. He not only almost certainly served on Cheney's energy task force, there is every indication that the task force's energy plan, the one we have been on for five years, is in fact the Enron plan. Lay used Bush as an errand boy, calling the governor of Texas and having him phone Tom Ridge of Pennsylvania to vouch for what swell energy deregulation bills Enron was sponsoring in states all over the country.
It seems to me we all understand this is a systemic problem.
We need to reform the political system, or we'll lose the democracy. I don't think it's that hard. It doesn't take rocket science. We've done it before successfully at the presidential level and tried it several places at the state level. Public campaign financing isn't perfect and can doubtlessly be improved upon as we go. Let us begin. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14529
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:19 am: |
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Love your new picture, Notehead.
Thanks for that piece. Very good.
Ivins writes: The extent to which not just state legislatures but the Congress of the United States are now run by large corporate special interests is beyond mere recognition as fact. The takeover is complete.
That seems to imply that it can't get worse. She may be wrong about that. Time will tell.
What kind of campaign finance won't have giant loopholes? I'm all for trying, but what kinds of changes can we realistically hope for?
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3360
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 2:07 pm: |
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Thanks! 1987 was a good year. (And a loooong time ago!)
I don't know if things can get worse but hopefully we'll never find out for sure.
When I'm suffering through a ton of paperwork required for SOX compliance, I try to console myself with the thought that this sort of documentation is supposed to make it more difficult for tomorrow's Lays and Skillings to perpetrate corporate crimes. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3272
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 2:23 pm: |
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Actually, what SOX will eventually do is kill the NYSE. New companies will list on exchanges that do not have the same requirements, particularly non-US-based companies. As you know, SOX compliance is expensive. And in this global economy, it puts smaller companies at a competitive disadvantage because of the cost. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3364
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 3:09 pm: |
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SOX compliance is certainly expensive, and tedious as all get-out, and it seems to me like it's doing more harm than good. I hadn't realized your point about the real effects of its expense, though. That's a real drag. I hope they either seriously streamline it or do away with it. |
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