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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5663
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 31, 2006 - 11:19 pm: | 
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themp -- why stop at Jefferson? There are others. Go for it.
At best, you'll maybe be able to set up a demilitarized zone in this loser of an effort themed "Culture of Corruption." I'd suggest that your virtuous brethren at the UN be tapped to monitor it. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1105
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 7:42 am: |
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themp,
I agree these recent scandals are worthless. The idea behind my post isn't to mean real investigations. The idea is to simply push press catching scandals that begin diverting the daily drumbeat against Republicans. I think most of the scandals in the last few years are worthless. I know you truly believe every scandal against the Repubs is legit and every scandal against the Dems is just political hack jobs. I think they are all political hackjobs. And if you think I care how you view me then you really must believe you are an important poster. I'm simply saying that the Repubs will soon be engaged and will begin to use the Democratic model of a scandal a week. Whether any of them stick or not is beside the point. The entire exercise is to not allow the Dems to seize upon the "corrupt free" theme. If the electorate views both sides as corrupt then the incumbent party should hold serve. That is the goal, pure and simple. |
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 81
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
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Twilight Zone music begins to play……………….. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2978
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
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I know you truly believe every scandal against the Repubs is legit and every scandal against the Dems is just political hack jobs. I think they are all political hackjobs.
When someone pleads guilty and goes to jail because of an investigation by a more-or-less non-partisan entity, it isn't a "hack-job". It is the punishment of public corruption for the good of all citizens. I hope Jefferson literally does 25 years in jail. I believe in trying to suppress public corruption, even though it will always be a problem. I'm astonished to hear you say "it's a power struggle using all weapons between utterly corrupt entities and I chose the winning one" or whatever your core belief is. Why don't you go pour your motor oil down a storm drain and steal from the collection plate while you are at it?
If your only moral high ground is gloating, you look pretty foolish ultimately.
Or, stated as a formula:
Gloating - victory = confederate flag on truck window
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5664
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 11:58 am: |
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Harry Reid won't accept any more free tickets (he didn't do that until he assumed the leadership and actually had some real power over issues people giving him tickets coveted) but says there's nothing wrong with accepting free tickets.
This in contrast to keeping Abramoff-directed Indian Funds and saying there's nothing wrong with accepting those.
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ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 82
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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Cjc, are you intentionally distorting the relevance, tone, and lack of moral relativism to the other, yes largely Republican scandals regarding Abramoff, bribes, and election fraud, or do you simply not understand?
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themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2981
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 3:12 pm: |
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See, ae35, they understand. It's an act. No one could really think that lifelong republican activist Jack Abramoff is somehow a democratic scandal, and that further it's even worse for the democrats because they are being hypocrites about it, unless they were really just willing themselves to believe that despite all reasonable evidence. |
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 83
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 3:39 pm: |
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"See, ae35, they understand. It's an act."
Thank God for that, I was getting worried. You know how turkeys will stare at the sky and drink the rain until they drown? I was worried about Straw.
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5665
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
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ae35unit and themp -- the people who are acting as though they don't understand are people like you. I understand there's corruption throughout DC. It's a common talking point that Harry Reid routinely accepted money from Indian tribes because he represents Indians in his state. When it's pointed out that an Abramoff-directed contribution from the Coshatta (sp?) tribe went to Reid for the 1st time, trying to get him to vote against their competing Indian casino interest in a state outside of Nevada and he did, suddenly that's not influence buying, but when say Burns,R-WY, which is also loaded with Indians gets that kind of money then it is influence buying. Bob Ney? I'll even give you that one.
Byron Dorgan received over 67K in Abramoff-directed special interest money and returned it. Harry Reid kept his $60+. Durbin returned his $12K, along with others. All legit? Then why return it? Politically, it's not working for you.
Sure, Abramoff sent his limit of $2K personal cash to Republicans, but you act as if you don't understand that $2K is nothing in the scheme of the universe in monied politics. Hillary returned her 2K (non-Abramoff, but from his clients) and I'm sure she didn't feel a thing.
This is why the "Culture of Corruption" won't work for you. Tickets? Chump change. What's $1400 for a ringside seat for the average citizen you're thinking no doubt.
It's hard to point fingers when your thump is still stuck inside parts of your own political party. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2982
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 5:04 pm: |
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If tribes gave money to democrats, it isn't a crime, even if they were advised or directed to by Abramoff. In the absence of any quid pro quo, there isn't much there.
In a March 20, 2002 email to Scanlon, Abramoff wrote, "Just met with Ney!!! We’re f’ing gold!!!! He’s going to do Tigua."
In June 2002, Abramoff emailed Tigua consultant Marc Schwartz saying, "our friend asked if we could help (as in cover) a Scotland golf trip for him and some staff." Although unnamed in the email, Schwartz testified before the Senate Indian Affairs Committee that "our friend" referred to Ney. Abramoff suggested to Schwartz that the tribe send $50,000 to the Capital Athletic Foundation to cover the trip, which would be tagged "an educational mission."
Ouch! |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5038
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 9:43 pm: |
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Nice try cjc et al, but even AP has backpedalled on credentials vs. tickets, the prohibition on selling them, and the blanket exemption senators have allowing them to accept them.
It's a government-regulated sport, and guess what? Government officials get to actually see what it is they are regulating.
Cute diversion too about the indian tribes. Nothing gets conservatives heated up more than Dems actually receiving campaign contributions. Everybody knows they should only go to Republicans. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5666
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, June 1, 2006 - 10:00 pm: |
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It's not a ticket. It's just a credential that has a seat attached to it. Keep telling yourself that. You mean this story in AP? Manley is Reid's flak, by the way:
"Senate ethics rules generally allow senators to take gifts from any state, not just their home state. But they specifically warn against taking normally permissible gifts if the giver may be trying to influence official action.
Manley said Wednesday night that Reid “misspoke when he said the rule applies only to senators who represent the state agency.” But he added he believes Reid still could ethically accept the tickets.
“It was therefore entirely permissible for Senator Reid — a senator from Nevada — to have attended a major Nevada sporting event as a guest of Nevada officials,” Manley said.
Several ethics experts disagreed, criticizing Reid’s rationale that he felt obligated to take the tickets to ensure boxing was being conducted properly in his home state.
“He is no more obligated to go to boxing matches than he is to a Celine Dion concert in Vegas,” said Melanie Sloan, a former Justice Department prosecutor and head of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.
Fred Wertheimer, a longtime ethics watchdog, agreed.
“The test under congressional ethics rules in these circumstances is not what state a member is from but whether the gift creates the appearance that the gift is motivated by a desire to influence the member or gain favorable official action,” Wertheimer said. “If the gift creates such an appearance, it should not be accepted.”
© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed."
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13043895/
The only diversion I offered on Indian tribes is a factual one that flies in the face of your attempted one-party smear. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1807
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 2, 2006 - 9:41 am: |
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So he went to a boxing match for free and voted against the organization that provided the ticket. The horror! |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2984
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 2, 2006 - 3:13 pm: |
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Again: show me the indictments/guilty pleas. What conservatives seem to overlook in these discussions, to an extent that I find really surprising, is that the criminal prosecutions now underway against many republicans are matters of criminal law, not politics. Loyalty is a good thing, but don't let it blind you to a fault in the style of republican leadership. That fault is an arrogant, hyperagressive partisanship (and I think most republicans would agree to that and even like that). It can lead to hubris and lapsed judgment. Just take a look.
Now we get "Ken Lay was never one of ours; Abramoff was never one of our."
But they are the epitome of republican access and philosophy. Wake up. These people aren't small government loving citizen-farmers; they are carrion birds. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1446
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 2, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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Straw posts another flop. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5042
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, June 2, 2006 - 6:30 pm: |
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Quote:He is no more obligated to go to boxing matches than he is to a Celine Dion concert in Vegas
Celine Dion concerts are not regulated by the state. Boxing is. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5672
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 8:47 am: |
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tom - no one said Abramoff wasn't "one of our" with his personal donations. He touched a lot of people, and his clients touched both sides.
Nor have we said Ken Lay "wasn't one of ours." He belonged to a lot of people, and whoever happened to be in power at the time.
Nor is anyone excusing criminality. You don't like the style of leadership? Fine. Style isn't criminal. Lapses in judgement using one style (GOP) or another (Democrats) can lead to criminality but it doesn't automatically.
The hyper-partisanship is most evident in the insinuation that corruption is on one side of the aisle, and using that style to regain power rather than advancing a clear idea or agenda. |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2743
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, June 3, 2006 - 4:34 pm: |
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Celine Dion concerts are not regulated by the state. Boxing is.
That statement says more about how screwed up government priorities are then anything else I've read recently.  |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3385
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
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Corruption exists on both sides of the aisle, and I have never, ever seen anybody here deny that, and neither has cjc.
The SCALE of the corruption on the GOP's side of the aisle, the influence-peddling, the misinformation, the sale of our country to corporations, is larger by far than whatever Dems are guilty of. And nobody who reads the papers and has a fairly informed perspective about what's going on can deny that. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1111
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 4, 2006 - 1:52 pm: |
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Notey,
I agree but that is because the Repubs are in power. When the Dems were in power they had more corruption. No one tries to peddle influence if they have no influence to peddle. No one attempts to bribe someone who can't even get witnesses sworn in.
You Dems should definitely beat this drum since you are the minority. We sure beat it when we were the minority. We even got your boy impeached we were that good. But as soon as you get back into power the corruption will swing since you will have the influence. I know you understand this Notey. Don't try to pull the wool over someone who made the wool. It's a game. Who knows, maybe this tactic will work. It usually does bring some benefit. That is why the Repubs will be working overtime between now and November finding the corruption by the Dems. Of course this will be difficult because who is stupid enough to waste money buying off a Dem. |
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