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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1518
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, June 16, 2006 - 7:08 pm: | 
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ON December 12, 2005, President George W. Bush visited Philadelphia. At a gala event, a reporter had the nerve to ask: "Since the inception of the Iraqi war, I'd like to know the approximate total of Iraqis who have been killed. And by Iraqis I include civilians, military, police, insurgents, translators." Bush replied, "How many Iraqi citizens have died in this war? I would say 30,000, more or less, have died as a result of the initial incursion and the ongoing violence against Iraqis." The journalist thanked him, and Bush continued, "I'll repeat the question. If I don't like it, I'll make it up." The guests and journalists laughed and burst into applause.
By July 2005, two Iraqi groups had documented far larger death tolls. Dr. Hatim Al-Alwani of Iraqiyun, a humanitarian group based in Baghdad, calculated 128,000 violent deaths since March 2003. The group only tallied those deaths that could be confirmed by relatives (the thousand who are missing were not added to this total). Between September and October 2003, an Iraqi political group (the People's Kifah) counted 37,000 deaths (its survey had been curtailed - a Kurdish militiaman captured one of the researchers).
In late 2004, the British medical journal The Lancet reported that "by conservative assumptions, we think about 100,000 excess deaths or more have happened since the 2003 invasion of Iraq... . Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children." While the resistance also targeted innocent civilians, The Lancet argued, "eighty-four per cent of the deaths were reported to be caused by the actions of Coalition forces." On February 8, 2006, Les Roberts (the lead author of the The Lancet's report) said that the number of Iraqi civilian deaths had now risen to 300,000.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories/20060616000605900.htm
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1497
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:02 am: |
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but we got Saddam, we have the oil, Haliburton and military stocks are flying, so who cares about a few Iraqis anyway?
the war is IMMORAL. The supporters of this war have innocent blood on their hands |
Elgato
Citizen
Username: Elgato
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:36 am: |
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And we will never leave....
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,19019060-2703,00.html
Baghdad anger at Bush's undiplomatic palace
Daniel McGrory, Baghdad
May 04, 2006
THE question puzzles and enrages a city: how is it that the Americans cannot keep the electricity running in Baghdad for more than a couple of hours a day, yet still manage to build the biggest embassy on earth?
Irritation grows as residents deprived of airconditioning and running water three years after the US-led invasion watch the massive US embassy they call "George W's palace" rising from the banks of the Tigris.
In the pavement cafes, people moan that the structure is bigger than anything Saddam Hussein built. They are not impressed by the architects' claims that it will be visible from space and cover an area larger than Vatican City. They are more interested in knowing whether the US State Department paid for the prime real estate or simply took it.
While families suffer electricity cuts, queue all day to fuel their cars and wait for water pipes to be connected, the US mission, due to open in June next year, will have its own power and water plants to cater for a population the size of a small town.
The design of the compound is supposed to be a secret, but you cannot hide the concrete contours of the 21 buildings that are taking shape.
Looming over the skyline, the embassy has the distinction of being the only big US building project in Iraq that is on time and within budget. In a week when Washington revealed a startling list of missed deadlines and overspending on building projects, Congress was told the bill for the embassy was $US592million ($772million).
The heavily guarded 42ha site - which will have a 3m-thick perimeter wall - has hundreds of workers swarming on scaffolding. Locals are bitter that the Kuwaiti contractor has employed only foreign staff.
Diplomats, after roughing it in Saddam's abandoned palaces, should have every comfort in their new home. The plans are rumoured to include the biggest swimming pool in Iraq, a gymnasium, a cinema, restaurants offering delicacies from US food chains, tennis courts and a swish American Club for functions.
A State Department official said the size reflected the "massive amount of work still facing the US and our commitment to see it through".
The Times
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SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1903
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:13 am: |
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Babylon was about 50 miles from modern Baghdad and founded by - appropriately enough - Nimrod. Maybe W. is trying to usher in the End Times?? Are W., Rumsfeld, Cheney and Condoleeza the four horse(men/women/persons) of the Apocalypse??
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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1525
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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If you get Raptured, can I have your car? |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1904
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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I don't think I'll make the cut... |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1724
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |
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but we got Saddam, we have the oil, Haliburton and military stocks are flying, so who cares about a few Iraqis anyway?
Yeah Hoops, let Saddam keep butchering them...
-SLK |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1498
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 7:39 pm: |
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SLK in my opinion you are morally bankrupt. The equations dont balance, thousands of dead Iraqis, an anarchic society with no infrastructure, no electricity to run their air conditioning, a rampant civil religious war where intellectuals/middle class people are being kidnapped and murdered daily, where if you leave home you dont know if you will return home is far different from Iraq under Saddam. With all his evil and all his butchery and all the bad things he did, at the least his people had a vibrant middle class, were highly educated, employment was high, and despite the corruption they were far better off in that Iraq then in the current one.
You have so far decided to keep using one liners because you have no real answers to the dilemmas that were posed.
If this had anything to do with freedom then why would we be building such monstrosities in Iraq for the USA when the Iraqis themselves suffer? Why are we building permanent bases?
Answer this one if the American position is so altruistic -
Why were the components of the bill that said that America would not be building permanent bases in Iraq nor exercise control over the oil pulled from the bill after it was approved by both houses of congress?
... the Pentagon could not use the next round of war funding to ‘establish permanent United States military bases in Iraq, or to exercise United States control over the oil infrastructure or oil resources of Iraq’.
detailed information posted here
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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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Saddam is on trail for killing... um... like a hundred... or so. Right? SLK?
CLintons Policy kilt 300k, the Bush Policy kilt another 300k. I must be missin sumtin here, SLK help me see this the right way............. please.
Kim in N. Korea did What?
Darfur?
Niger?
China? |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1911
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 8:41 pm: |
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Bringing Freedom to a Town Near You!!! |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 587
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:33 pm: |
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You preach to yourselves.
Clinton allowed about eight hundred thousand to die in tribal genocide in Africa, remember, when he could have sent in troops to stop it.
jd |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 588
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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Rwanda, for the forgetful.
jd |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1528
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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Hoops... you were refering to the 14 permanent bases in Iraq that were started, like awwwwww 2, 1/2 years ago?
Nice soundbite SLK, it seems to work with the 20% or 25% left, er ah , I mean remaining King George loyalists.
Now I will employ a soundbite:
Bush is the worst President ever.
Straw, are you next? |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5736
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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Hoops -- you're right. And I was thinking -- so what Stalin starved and slaughtered millions. They had security, housing and mail delivery. Some people just don't understand how good things were. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1502
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:34 am: |
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I am right. Stalin was a monster and we knew it yet we didnt invade for all those years. I wonder why.
Of course Saddam was just as bad as Stalin. He was the absolute worst despot on earth right?
Wrong. The results are in. Iraq is having a bad time. The phony comparisons you are propping up do not eliminate that reality. And the reality is the civil war is Americas fault. Our war plan was wrong, we did not have enough troops to keep the peace, we eliminated the Iraqi army - just go on home and take your guns with you - we eliminated the Iraqi civil service, we propped up crooks as leaders and we have done nothing to help these people from falling into this strife.
It is Americas fault and as a supporter of this war dont you think you bear some responsibility towards the innocent people of Iraq for their suffering? If you are not against the war then I suggest that you have an impact on the cause of the horrors that these people are suffering. |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1729
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:01 pm: |
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Hoops-
All t hese "suffering innocents" seem to have no problem coming out in droves for two elections now did they?
Some of you folks act like freedom comes without a price.
There is death in war...surprise surprise....
-SLK
FOJ....so are you saying Saddam didn't butcher any of his people? Stop wasting time bashing me, don't you need to go find another obscure, unconsequential anti-Bush website link to post? Hurry along now, time is a wasting. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5513
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:26 pm: |
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The mass graves from the 1980's (the "Rumsfeld shakes hands with his buddy Saddam" era) or from the Shiite uprising after Desert Storm (when the Bush I administration watched from the sidelines) were not the reasons given for the 2003 invasion of Iraq.
The "obscure, unconsequential anti-Bush website link" which discusses when those killings took place, is this one from USAID-
http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
Download the report, it has a lot of important information. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1505
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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SLK -
Still a flack for the Bushies.
No surprise there.
- Hoops |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 6558
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 9:49 pm: |
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joel, because no one else is going to rise to your bait, how about Darfur? How many hundreds of thousands are dying there? What about the farmers and the tribals fighting all over the place, hacking each other to death with shovels and machetes?
I realize you have to pick and choose how to allocate your resources and American has rarely seen fit to do much for Africa, but to bring it up in this thread is just throwing a red herring into the mix to sound righteous.
The two are unrelated. There are hundreds of posts asking this ridiculous question. Take some time and read them. |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1733
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 8:34 am: |
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Iraqi Guerrilla War Rate of Killing Same as Under Saddam
http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1735
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:41 am: |
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Hoops-
Someone you can turn to when you absolutely positively need a loony left wing view on anything...
-SLK |
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