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Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 1527 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 17, 2006 - 7:57 pm: |
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I was at a NJ Progressive Democratic Cuacus meeting today.... let me tell you.. everyone was all abuzz with the Menendez/Kean showing at Atlantic City. Kos has a blog post on it: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/17/151725/088 All of us here at the Menendez campaign have been pretty fed up with the petty attacks against the Senator, from NJ GOP chairman Tom Wilson's Ann Coulter-isms to Kean, Jr.'s own vague and unfounded personal attacks. Now, there are a few options for responding to this kind of Rove-style campaign. You can ignore it. You can send out surrogates to protest. Or you can confront the tactics, head on. Senator Menendez insisted on the latter. Friday morning in Atlantic City, at a meeting of the New Jersey Association of Counties, Senator Menendez had some choice words for Tom Kean, Jr.. My record is clear, and I will not stand by another minute and let my opponent malign me or my service to the people I have represented throughout my career. Tom, you may be playing with George Bush's campaign playbook, but you're on the field with a different kind of Democrat.... Scott Shields's diary :: :: One week ago, his state party chairman stooped to the lowest form of politics, and said that if I had my way, the terrorist Zarqawi would still be alive to murder innocents in Iraq and plot attacks against our country. And Tom Kean, Jr.? No, rebuke, no apology, not a word. That's not a campaign of courage, that's a campaign of cowardice. You have to earn the right to talk about honesty and integrity and frankly Tom, when it comes to ethics and character, you have no standing to lecture anyone. What was Kean's response to the speech? Well, even though he was supposed to be sitting on the stage with Senator Menendez, he chickened out and waited outside until the Senator was done speaking. He then went up to the podium and delivered the same canned speech he'd been planning all along, with absolutely no response to the Senator's comments. After Kean, Jr. spoke, reporters tried to get him on the record. No such luck. As Josh Gohlke of the Bergen Record put it, Kean and his crew "stampeded down a carpeted hallway and into an elevator." Several reporters managed to keep up, blurting out questions the candidate was determined not to answer. Did he care to respond to Democratic candidate Robert Menendez's scathing speech just a few minutes earlier in the same ballroom? Was he, as Menendez charged, a lightweight armed only with empty attacks? The Kean contingent stampeded down a carpeted hallway and into an elevator. The reporters and questions squeezed into it with them. Kean kept repeating a few slogans. "I'm proud of both my record and my vision for the future of the country," Kean reiterated, this time with finality, as everyone spilled back out of the elevator and he hurried off. "Thank you very much!" After talking for a few minutes, the reporters realized they had entered and exited the elevator on the same floor. So ended a strange episode in a campaign that is reaching impressive levels of absurdity, given that it's only June. When the only impressive aspect of his campaign is the new level of absurdity he's been able to reach, Tom Kean, Jr.'s got to be wondering what he's doing in this race at all. The Beltway Republicans think they're going to win this race the same way they've won races all across the country -- shoveling fear and smear. Welcome to Jersey, Rove. It's not going to work this time.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 687 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:17 pm: |
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Kos is certainly an objective commentator and blogger. In reality Bob Menendez is going to get slapped around in this race about his record (not very eventful) in the house and his call to be elected for purposes of "change" in Washington. What happens with Corzine's budget and property tax reform is also going to influence this race. Menendez is going to get tagged for what happens because the dems are in control of NJ. Voters are not exactly in love with Corzine at the moment, quite soon after his election. Bob's claims to be a "reformer" while being the dem leader in Hudson County is kind of like him saying he is the tooth fairy. Not very believable. The race isn't over and it's not a cakewalk for Menendez. More sophisticated analysis and less wishful thinking there Foj. |
   
anon
Supporter Username: Anon
Post Number: 2798 Registered: 6-2002
| Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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Voters are not exactly in love with Corzine at the moment, quite soon after his election. I'm not sure if that's true or how it effects a race for the Senate, but I think I'm on safe grounds in saying that NJ voters "are not exactly in love with" George Bush and in fact many hate him, and that a Senate race is more about National than State politics, especially this year. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 690 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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anon- Think NJ issues will be what plays here. If property taxes and the economy were great I would agree with you that Bush would be the issue. |
   
Nohero
Supporter Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5518 Registered: 10-1999

| Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 10:50 pm: |
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I saw a Tom Kean Jr. commercial today, on one of those Sunday programs. He had John McCain prominently displayed in the ad - it was almost as if it was an ad for McCain, and not "Son of Kean". Instead of dismissing the source of the news commentary (as FvF suggests), maybe we could consider whether State Senator Kean has anything to say in his favor, other than bringing some cheap national Republican party talking points to N.J. 'Cause if that's all he has, he deserves to lose ... big. |
   
Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 1530 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Sunday, June 18, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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Didn't Kean bring Laura Bush for a fundraiser recently..... Is Cheney Next? FVF, I know only a bit about the Hudson County Machine, a lot of folks in Essex know much more, and some of them are in awe of Menendez stepping up on the Ports deal, and many other issues where he has taken a stand and made his case to the public. People respect that. And quite Frankly, FVF, if Bob continues to be a straight shooter, and Kean reads from the Rove play book, then Kean will go the route of Forester, only quicker. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 696 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:51 am: |
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Nohero and Foj- Talk about objective political analysis! You guys aren't....liberal dems... are you? Menendez is going to have some problems in the southern part of the state, and some wags have said his problem is he is going to be running against one of the most popular governors NJ has ever had, (Kean Sr. not Jr.). Daddy will also have the kid well-schooled and ready to go for the fall. He can stand around and look young and un-tainted by dirty NJ politics, while Bob is seen as a consumate insider. Some African-American leaders in NJ are not a part of the Menendez fan club as well. If we are being honest we also have to consider the potential prejudice against a Hispanic candidate among the unwashed parts of the electorate. My sense is they are going to have a really good fundraising push on the repub side nationally, while the dems are kind of lukewarm on Menendez if last minute campaign money is needed. Bob Menendez is also going to get tagged with Jon Corzine's performance which so far has shown as much grasp and charisma with the common man as anyone worth millions and can buy election can have. His holding hands with the state labor unions when dem politicos are calling for state worker givebacks is textbook political cannon fodder for repub attack ads. So this means Menendez will not win this going away as you suggest. How close it gets depends on what the conditions are in NJ in the fall, and any scandals uncovered or faux pas by the candidates.
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tom
Citizen Username: Tom
Post Number: 5128 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:17 pm: |
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I've got to think that New Jersey didn't get to have the highest per capita income in the nation by virtue of being populated by a bunch of gullible rubes. This stuff might work in Kansas, but it's got a better chance of backfiring here. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 699 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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tom- We also have the highest property taxes(?) and still elect the same people. ... what were you saying about rubes again?
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Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen Username: Casey
Post Number: 2175 Registered: 8-2003

| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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total tax burden in NJ (state and local) is 10.4%. U.S. average is 10.1%. for all intents and purposes, we're at the national average. http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lists/taxesbystate2005/index.html |
   
Nohero
Supporter Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5519 Registered: 10-1999

| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:22 pm: |
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Good job, Doc. Now that's an example of "fact vs. fiction".  |
   
tom
Citizen Username: Tom
Post Number: 5129 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 1:32 pm: |
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That's right, our property taxes are high, but our income tax is relatively low. |
   
anon
Supporter Username: Anon
Post Number: 2802 Registered: 6-2002
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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Exactly what can a United States Senator do about property taxes? |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 704 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:06 pm: |
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Not so fast there Winston- please see the review of NJ taxes posted under my previous tax thread in "Soapbox". It says a lot different story about the significant level of tax increases under NJ politicians, budget, and expenditures, and is NJ specific. If I was less lazy tonight I would deconstruct your CNN reference. Tom- income taxes may be rising as well. Remember our "millionaire's (500k plus) tax? How about increases in the Realty Transfer Fee, tax on homes selling over 1 mil, etc. you don't think more taxes is on the way? anon- Well Bob Menendez while in Congress didn't do much to get more of our tax dollars back to NJ, did he? What is he going to do to get money back as a Senator? |
   
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen Username: Casey
Post Number: 2178 Registered: 8-2003

| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:18 pm: |
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tax rates and tax increases are obviously different things. I linked to an article on average tax rates, which are just above the national average. what increases brought us to that level are not relevant to the point I was making. yes we have high property taxes, but if you take all other taxes into account (even with recent increases), we don't pay appreciably more in total tax than other states, on a percentage basis. of course in dollars, we pay more, but we have high income relative to other states, as well as a higher cost of living. so percentages are really the proper way to base tax comparisons by state, not absolute dollars. maybe when you're up to it, you can "deconstruct" that CNN data. |
   
tom
Citizen Username: Tom
Post Number: 5135 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Monday, June 19, 2006 - 11:26 pm: |
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The millionaire's tax? Taxes on homes over $1MM? Stop, you're breaking my heart. Below NJ's semi-millionaire's tax, the top rate is 6.37%. Twenty-one states have higher rates at that income level, including such hotbeds of small-government as Kansas, Iowa, Montana, Idaho, North Carolina and Ohio. source: http://www.investinginbonds.com/learnmore.asp?catid=3&id=61 |
   
Bob K
Supporter Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11876 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:07 am: |
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It should be an interesting race. So far Kean hasn't done much to bring the social conservatives into his camp. This group makes up a 1/3rd of the registered Republicans in NJ. Is he hoping he can get most of the independent vote (see McCain ad)? This will be tough if he doesn't close the campaign funding deficet where Menendez has twice the cash he has. Foj, actually Cheney did a fundraiser for Kean. Unfortunately Kean got stuck in traffic on US1 and never made the dinner. If you believe that, I will give you a good price on the Brooklyn Bridge.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 709 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
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tom- Simple morning coffee reply- Breaking your heart? What about your wallet? Proposals exist to raise the tax on those earning 200k and above AS WELL as those who would fall underneath it. When you raise the state income tax you have people leave the state and take their income and businesses with it. So in essence it will increase what you pay in taxes. As the National Taxpayer's Union has pointed out we need people and businesses as a solution to our tax issues. How do we get them here Tom? Es Winston- Not necessarily. How about population differences? You forget NJ's poorer counties and the lower local taxes in many areas that come into the mix. There are areas that don't supply water, sewer, State troopers in lieu of local police. Sorry for being lazy on this, but must be Essex County resident malaise. |
   
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen Username: Casey
Post Number: 2179 Registered: 8-2003

| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 9:49 am: |
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no doubt there are differences by county. but residents of poorer counties are likely to pay about the same % of their income in tax. they still have to pay taxes for their local schools, and they pay all the other taxes we pay to the state. obviously when you have an average by state (any state), you're going to have some people paying above, and some below. I'm just addressing the constant drone that NJ is a high tax state (not whether Maplewood or Essex County are high tax areas). compared to allegedly low tax states, NJ is really not that different if you take into account everything - sales, gas, income, property tax, etc. other states either hit you with income tax, or nickel and dime you to death with sales and sin taxes. it's pay me now or pay me later, basically. but every state manages to get you somehow. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 714 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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Winston- And how would Corzine's budget proposals change the rate? |
   
3ringale
Citizen Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 252 Registered: 1-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 8:21 pm: |
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There is little difference in substance between Menendez and Kean. Nevertheless, the race is probably Menendez' to lose, unless solid proof of cash-filled envelopes turns up. You don't claw your way to the top of the Hudson County machine by being an Eagle Scout. Cheers |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 717 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 8:54 pm: |
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I still think Menendez is going to get tagged with what happens in New Jersey this year as a longtime democratic politician in the state. Jon Corzine's participation in the state worker rally in Trenton prior to presenting his budget was a clumsy and bad move, and shows he lacks the political sense of the real politicians. He may unavoidably damage Menendez. Let's see what happens.
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Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 1532 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 8:57 pm: |
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NJ is what... the third richest state in the country.... NJ might warrent the 3rd highest tax burden. If you don't like living in the 3rd richest state in the coutry, why don't you leave? Or quit your damn whining and run for office, or do some citizen lobbying. |
   
Southerner
Citizen Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1157 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
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Foj, Your political predictions are less accurate than a monkey throwing darts. I about laughed out loud when I saw you were the originator of a thread discussing a politicians future. Weren't you the poster who hosted the circle jerk over Rove's impending indictment? What about the 2/3's of Congress resigning thread? (that may not have been you but I like bringing it up). Didn't you also discuss ad naseum how Bush was finished and Kerry would whip him? (I'm pretty sure that was you, many times over). However, I do like your previous post about whiners. If most libs had your gusto you guys might actually get something done. I still think you would lose because your philosophy is flawed, but at least it would be an energetic race. I'm still waiting for Dean or any big time Democratic operative to show themselves in red America. The Dems are missing a huge opportunity to convince people to change their vote. Once football season starts red America won't really care what either side has to say. You Dems had better get your message out before September otherwise it will be lost and you will be left with another two years discussing Diebold and alien abductions. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 720 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:08 pm: |
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Foj- Are you the same guy that slobbered over Cindy Sheehan in the thread on MOL, who, IMHO has anti-semetic views ? If so, you lost me. My sense is that you would scream about the tax burden here if REPUBLICANS were running the state. Let's cut the political jihadi stuff and focus on the reality, which is people and businesses are not replenishing the state's tax base. That's because of? Taxes? Why if the Repubs are so bad Foj are so many people moving to their sunbelt ? |
   
Hoops
Citizen Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1521 Registered: 10-2004

| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:17 pm: |
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again, Menendez is running for Senator, not Governor. You had your chance at the state house but ran a candidate who was totally unqualified for the position. Corzine is thus far exploring all his options to get this state back on its feet. The real problem is that the republican administrations have tried the old trickle down formula and that didnt work so they raided the pensions. Way to go Christie. Corzine will go down as a dynamic, effective governor. Menendez will be a Senator. We dont need another republican to rubber stamp the administrations whims, wishes and wars. If Kean is indeed following the Rove talking points strategy he will fail miserably. There are not enough true believers in New Jersey to support it. The democrats will have a coherent and tangible policy both domestic and international and the votes to pull off this election easily. |
   
Madden 11
Citizen Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 946 Registered: 12-2003
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:42 pm: |
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I'm still waiting for Dean or any big time Democratic operative to show themselves in red America. I have no idea how this could have escaped the steely gaze of such an astute political observer as yourself, but: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-13-nebraska_x.htm
Quote:When Howard Dean ran for chairman of the Democratic National Committee, he promised state parties he would spread money and professionals around the country in a long-term quest for viability in "red" Republican states. He's followed through with a 50-state plan to revive moribund state and local organizations. [...] The state was a low priority for the DNC. Of the $731 million the party raised for the 2004 elections, Nebraska got $12,000. "The national Democrats were sucking money and volunteers" out of Nebraska, state party chairman Steve Achelpol says. Adds executive director Barry Rubin, "They called us an 'export state.' " Times have changed. The DNC is now spending $120,000 a year to pay the salaries of three organizers and a spokesman here. Nationwide, the party has hired and trained about 190 people in 50 states in its $10-million-a-year program. The goal is to create voter lists and activist networks that don't vanish when campaigns are over or powerful Democrats retire. [...] Success stories cited by the DNC include West Virginia, where the party created a precinct program to bolster organizing and turnout and has recruited leaders for almost half the state's nearly 2,000 precincts; and South Dakota, where the state party fielded candidates for 94 of the 105 legislative seats — 26 more than in 2002.
Results remain to be seen, of course. It may take a long time to repair damage done by years of neglect. But most people would agree that Democrats have a better chance of winning races in which they field a candidate. Makes you wonder how red these states would be if they ever had a blue alternative on the ballot. Looks like we're starting to find out. At any rate, I think it's safe to say that Dean is "showing his face" in the red states. A few other examples:
Quote:MISSISSIPPI: Republican Gov. Haley Barbour appointed Democrats representing competitive districts in the state legislature to various boards and commissions, triggering four special elections at a time when he believed that his personal popularity would translate into new Republican legislators. Just a few months prior, the 50-state strategy had taken the number of Democratic Party staff in Mississippi from one full-time person to five. By organizing on the ground the way Democrats in Mississippi haven't had the resources to do in a generation, we swept all four special elections. Now Gov. Barbour has four more Democrats holding appointments in his administration and the same number of Democrats sitting in the legislature. OHIO: The 50-state strategy means new staff in Ohio who have been reviving the field organizing efforts across the state. In a place where it had been typical to build and tear down an entire campaign infrastructure every election cycle, new staff are creating permanent organizing teams in every single county. These teams will be responsible for various functions during the course of the very competitive campaigns there in 2006 -- and won't disappear after Election Day. SOUTH DAKOTA: With the added boost from new staff and resources, Democrats fielded a record number of legislative candidates this year, recruiting challengers in nearly 40% more races than in 2002. INDIANA: With fresh resources and energy, Indiana Democrats have been making waves. The Indianapolis Star reported recently that, "Gov. Mitch Daniels and other state Republicans have taken a beating in recent months from the Indiana Democratic Party" thanks to the 50-state strategy, which provided the opportunity to hire a full-time spokesperson. Indiana is also the first state in the country to hold elections under new laws that requires voters to use photo identification that includes an expiration date. Predictably, rightful voters have been disenfranchised by this law. New staff and resources have helped collect data from the May 2nd primary election that will be needed to appeal to the federal court. OKLAHOMA: The 50-state strategy has been credited with re-energizing grassroots throughout the state. In April, the new staff paid off when the Democratic candidate scored an upset victory, unseating a Republican incumbent as mayor of Tulsa. NEW YORK: In rural upstate New York, which Republicans rely on for their base voters, unprecedented ground organizing is showing that the 50-state strategy means leaving no county behind. Already, new staff on the ground have identified 12,000 new Democratic voters -- voters who we will get to the polls this November and in elections to come, helping Democrats up and down the ballot. UTAH: Already, 2006 marks the best candidate recruitment for the Utah Democratic Party in over 15 years. Democrats have recruited candidates for every single State Senate race, and Democrats have challengers running in ten State House races that went unopposed in 2004. The recruitment efforts, led by new staff deployed as part of the 50-state strategy, include not only life-long Democrats but also six Republicans who have switched parties. NEW HAMPSHIRE: Regional field organizers deployed as part of our 50-state strategy have already racked up important wins. They have already worked hands-on to elect three new Democratic members to the State House -- in seats that had been held by Republicans since 1912.
Gee, Southerner, let me see if I can guess...you love this? |
   
Duncan
Supporter Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 6567 Registered: 12-2001

| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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southerner doesn't love anything except the sound of his own "voice". And FVF and southerner, what ever you think of FOJ's posts past or present, FOJ is about as involved in state and local politics as anyone on this board. So I wouldn't be so quick to pull the "of all the people to predict politics" nonsense.
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Southerner
Citizen Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1158 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
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How do you know. How do you know that I am not the Georgia State Chairman of the Republican Party? How do you know I am not Tom DeLay, or Karl Rove. Just because Foj feels the need to discuss personal matters on this board (like many others) doesn't mean they are more involved. It only means they enjoy talking about themselves and that they have loose lips. And no matter how you slice it, Foj has been wrong on just about every prediction he has made since I have been reading this board. From Bush's re-election, to Cheney's resignation, to Rumsfeld's resignation, to Rice becoming VP, to Rove's indictment. How many times must he be wrong for other liberals to ask an honest question. And yes, I love pointing this out. |
   
3ringale
Citizen Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 253 Registered: 1-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:25 pm: |
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New Jersey is a pretty "safe" state for Democrats. Mr. Bush and the Iraq war are probably more unpopular here than in most other states. And still, Sen. Menendez did not even have the guts to vote for setting a withdrawal date from Iraq. How many votes would that have cost him? He seems a little spineless, even for a pol. Cheers |
   
Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 1539 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 8:56 pm: |
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Mr. Alec Poitevint has been involved in Georgia politics going abck to when he was Chairman of the Decatur County Republican Party, '77 -'79. Thats not Southerner. FvF, Cindy was slobbering over me, again you get things backwards. And I never screamed when Lowell Wiecker was running Conneticut, or when he was in the Senate. You see FvF, on this very board I screamed about the 5 DEM Freeholders who voted to approve the Sequoia Voting machine contract. There was no more vocal MOLer than me, on this issue. Period. I suggest you take your: "My sense is that you would scream ", and fold it 5 times and put it where the moon doesn't shine. Again you get things backwards. SO quite your whining and put your money where your mouth is. Madden11, great synopsis about Dean. As of 2 weeks ago NJ has 4 DNC paid staffers, hired in early April. I've met some of them. Southerner, I got the balls to post the Jason Leopold article. You got the balls to post "I love this". I don't see a problem, do you?
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anon
Supporter Username: Anon
Post Number: 2809 Registered: 6-2002
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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Back to topic, sort of. I was trying to remember when NJ last elected a Republican Senator. I think it was 1972. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 728 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 11:16 pm: |
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Hoops- Are you drinking the strawberry or lemon-lime democratic kool-aide? Did you see Jon Corzine's approval ratings and the fact he is marching one way and the Assembly and Senate guys another on the budget? Real bad sign for big Jon, because they will not hesitate to kneecap him if it keeps them in office IMHO. Duncan- I hope you are not dating Heather Mills now. Unlike Sir Paul go for the pre-nup. Foj- Nice sidestep. Do you find Cindy Sheehan's comments anti-semetic or not? Election machines? Will you be writing "Foj's Profiles in Courage" next? Can sense you are out of the loop on democratic politics (insert machine between democratic and politics). anon- Hope springs eternal. Kean The Younger is the fresh-faced and scandal free scion of the most popular living former Governor of NJ. Bob Menendez, well he just ain't the "Torch" as many will conceed. Not a great way to be spending your summer campaign when you have to talk about disclosing grand jury minutes from the corruption trial of your mentor. Menendez will probably win, but.... you never know. |
   
campbell29
Citizen Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 492 Registered: 4-2002
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:12 am: |
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Property and Income taxes mean absolutly nothing when it comes to NJ voting for a senator. Those issues relate to state, not federal elections. Will NJ vote to elect a Republican Jr senator who will most likely vote along party lines to confirm judges to overturn Roe v Wade, and do the president's bidding with regard to Iraq, not very likely. Menedez, who I know nothing about, is most likely to win not based on his performance, but on the utter disgust that most NJ people hold for Bush.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 733 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
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Between Menendez and Lautenberg we will be awash in federal funds? People in NJ are looking to punish someone for our taxes etc.. Democrats are in power in NJ right now. Bush is unpalatable, but he is still an afterthought to the daily concerns of most people. Yes a Senator has nothing to do directly with NJ taxes, but rationality is never the voters strong suit. Consider that we keep on electing the people who made our state the mess it is. Pocketbook....pocketbook....pocketbook. If I was Bob Menendez's people I would push what he could do on that and not electing him to "change" Washington. Unless democrats wake up and put together a really strong series of policy views that move them to the center you just may wake up and find President Jeb Bush. |
   
Bob K
Supporter Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11905 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 10:54 am: |
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Latest poll (taken yesterday) has Menendez up 38% to 36% and this after his speech and his ads running on NJ radio. This should be interesting come November. |
   
Hoops
Citizen Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1531 Registered: 10-2004

| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:06 am: |
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Quinnipiac Poll to slightly correct Bob K - the independent voters have Menendez up 37 - 35 % while the total of all other voters puts Menendez up 43 - 36 at this point the only thing Kean can do is pray for an electronic miracle. |
   
tom
Citizen Username: Tom
Post Number: 5147 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Quote:People in NJ are looking to punish someone for our taxes
I think people who have this as their primary issue have always been voting Republican anyway. |
   
Bob K
Supporter Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11908 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
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Hoops, here is the poll I mentioned. I should have been more specific. There is another one, by the WSJ that has the race at 41/40, but even I don't believe that one. http://strategicvision.biz/political/newjersey_poll_062106.htm |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 738 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:15 pm: |
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tom- Always depends on who is in office. I remember people getting crazy over Whitman too. Bush didn't do too badly in NJ the last time considering. We have a number of middle-of-the road dems in the state too. Bob K- Can you give me a " confrontational " check here? Am I being un-sweet?  |
   
Bob K
Supporter Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11912 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 2:02 pm: |
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FvF, very good, you are getting the idea.  |
   
Southerner
Citizen Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1165 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 3:08 pm: |
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Foj, You know I like you. That Leopold thread just provided me great fodder to bust your cajones. You have taken the hit well and I respect you for it. You got to admit though that if you post enough off those websites you are going to get burned once in a while. That is one of the reasons I refuse to cut and paste articles. I don't see where it adds to the discussion. I'd rather just discuss person to person rather than regurgitate something. I think you and I could agree that you could post (like you do) a ton of biased left leaning articles and I could post a ton of right leaning articles and we'd be no further ahead. |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 746 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 6:08 pm: |
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Bob K- I feel so "validated" ! Many thanks ! . Now I just have to make sure I don't ever walk on Durand...and have a sex change. |
   
Southerner
Citizen Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1167 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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Polls are meaningless at this point. When will you Dems realize this. Of course it feeds in to your conspiracy theories so it's a useful tool for my entertainment. |
   
Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 1564 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Saturday, June 24, 2006 - 2:24 pm: |
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The Menendez campaign is circulating this video from AC. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aq6NeVOW5V8 |
   
Factvsfiction
Citizen Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 772 Registered: 4-2006
| Posted on Sunday, June 25, 2006 - 5:51 pm: |
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Foj- The work of a political activist ( note I didn't say hack) is never done?
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