| Author | Message | ||
     Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1565 Registered: 10-2004  |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060627/pl_nm/congress_flag_dc I mean when was the last time you burned a flag? Ever? Please this is ridiculous. Flag burning is a form of protest and as such is protected by the first amendment under freedom of speech. The supreme court recently 1990 ruled that it was a protected form of speech. If there are issues in our government that cause someone to stand outside the White house and put a torch to the flag to make their point then so be it. We are a free society and as a free society we must not limit the freedom to protest peacefully. Our elected representatives - both R and D are now wasting our money by using this time to debate another non issue. There are major issues that should be addressed in America. Why are they doing this? | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15205 Registered: 10-2001  |
If you saw someone attempting to burn our flag, would you try to stop it? | ||
| Twokitties Citizen Username: Twokitties Post Number: 447 Registered: 8-2004 |
This looks like a great opportunity for Southerner to post another boring rant about the nature of election year politics. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3509 Registered: 5-2001  |
Sbenois -- that's not the point. This non-issue is bullkaka. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5178 Registered: 5-2001 |
A Constitutional amendment will only increase flag-burning's frequency and power. To the extent that it happens at all now it's non-news. Post-amendment, it will happen frequently and be on the front page. Anyway, the Constitution is about the machinery of government. What's flag burning got to do with that? | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15206 Registered: 10-2001 |
If you saw someone attempting to burn our flag, would you try to stop it? | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 724 Registered: 7-2004  |
No, would you? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 9988 Registered: 4-1997  |
According to the Flag Code, "when a flag has served its useful purpose, it should be destroyed, preferably by burning." | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15207 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yes. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 952 Registered: 12-2003 |
Sbenois-- Why? Because you don't like it? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1566 Registered: 10-2004 |
s - absolutely not! If you saw someone standing outside of village hall protesting our lack of progress in the village would you try to stop it? Its the same thing. If I saw someone robbing a liquor store I would call 911. If I saw a fight I would try to break it up. If I saw a mugging I would try to stop it. If I see a protest I would not try to stop it. Flag burning is a symbolic offense that allows the protestor to demonstrate anger at the powers that be. It is no crime against the united states of america nor is it a crime against the citizens of our country. I can be angry about someone burning the American flag at the same time as I realize that the flag is no more then a symbol of our country, not our country itself. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15208 Registered: 10-2001 |
Yes. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 953 Registered: 12-2003 |
Hoops...you beat me to it. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5540 Registered: 10-1999  |
I someone tried to burn my flag (as in, one that I own), I would stop them. If someone went onto my property, and started to burn a flag, I would stop them. But, if someone is in a public place, and they start to burn a flag that they brought with them, as some sort of protest, I would just say, "Look at the assclown protester burning the flag." In other words, there's no law against being an assclown, and there shouldn't be. Lucky for us! | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15209 Registered: 10-2001 |
The flag is a symbol of this country that is sacred to many Americans. While I understand and respect ones right to protest, I also have the right to try to prevent it from being burned. Don't I? | ||
| cmontyburns Citizen Username: Cmontyburns Post Number: 1887 Registered: 12-2003  |
"I mean when was the last time you burned a flag? Ever? Please this is ridiculous." Hardly anyone has abortions, but we spend plenty of time debating the issue. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 725 Registered: 7-2004 |
sbenois, What you are saying is you believe in anarchy. You are saying that everyone has a right to prevent others from performing any action they disagree with. Flag burning is legal. Until that becomes illegal, you do not have a legal right to try to prevent it. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15210 Registered: 10-2001 |
Arrested for putting out a fire? That makes sense. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1567 Registered: 10-2004 |
tom laid it out and he is correct. If this 'amendment' goes through there will be one great big bonfire of flags all over the news and all over every protest. There is no crisis of flag burners out there (at least I havent witnessed any). So the question to s is - Is this a more important issue then the war in Iraq, spying on citizens without oversight, North Korea and Iran, the deficit, healthcare, education, the environment, terrorism, afghanistan, our trade deficit, port security, improving our intelligence capabilities, loose nukes, or dozens of other issues? Isnt this just a waste of our senators time? | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 726 Registered: 7-2004 |
Putting out a stand-alone fire is one thing. Trying to prevent someone from lighting the flag is different. Just be careful and don't let your clothes catch on fire. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5749 Registered: 3-2002 |
hardly anyone has abortions? although they are declining in numbers, there are still well over 1 million a year in the US. And, if flag burning is a symbolic gesture, trying to stop a flag burning is a symbolic response. And if it is illegal to stop it, that makes it a form of civil disobedience, although starting a fire in a public space with any material, including an American flag, is probably illegal. Can you get a permit to start a fire therefor making it legal? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1568 Registered: 10-2004 |
cmonty - abortions should be rare but available to whoever wants one. I would doubt your statement about hardly anyone having abortions tho. | ||
| S.L.K. 2.0 Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1821 Registered: 10-2005  |
I would be offended if someone burned the flag in front of me and handle it my own way but the constitution doesn't need to be bothered with this.... First GM and now flag burning...leave the Constitution alone GOP! There, everyone has me on record now with disagreeing with my alleged party... -SLK | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 727 Registered: 7-2004 |
This thread has caught fire faster than any flag would! | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2186 Registered: 8-2003  |
the irony of course is that by their actions, Congress gives legitimacy to flag burning as a political protest. what's the best way to protest ban against flag burning? why, burning a flag of course! in effect, they turn what is now essentially a nihilistic act into a political act with a clear and defined message. what a bunch of idiots we have in Washington. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15211 Registered: 10-2001 |
Thank you Hank. It's really simple. If some assclown want to burn my flag symbolically, I'm going to respond symbolically by stopping it. And if I am arrested, for treading on this person's "right", I'll happily pay the fine or do whatever I had to to pay society back for my terrible sin. Long live Rick Monday. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 11962 Registered: 5-2001 |
Obviously another effort to fire up the base for the elections this fall. We are alone in our devotion to our flag. In the British Royal Navy old, faded and tattered Union Jacks are used as cleaning rags. This one, however, may very well get through the House and the Senate. If it does, it will be approved. | ||
| Hank Zona Supporter Username: Hankzona Post Number: 5751 Registered: 3-2002 |
Rick Monday rescuing the flag...it is sad that one of the top ten moments in Cubs history is not actually baseball-related, but what can one expect from that haunted franchise? I guess its good that the White Sox had the Disco Sucks Night or that also would have been a Top Ten Greatest Moments in Cubs history. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5179 Registered: 5-2001 |
s, I assume you meant "want to burn a flag symbolically, not my flag, since obviously no one is trying to stop you from protecting your own property. And you are quite justified in symbolically trying to stop it, as long as you don't resort to violence. So the flag-burner has the right to his symbolic action, and you have to right to yours. I think that's just fine. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15212 Registered: 10-2001 |
I might even resort to violence to stop it. | ||
| S.L.K. 2.0 Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1824 Registered: 10-2005 |
violence=freedom of expression, no? | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1570 Registered: 10-2004 |
sbenois - you have an emotional attachment to the flag and there is nothing wrong with that. I applaud your nationalism and high opinion of the USA. If you resort to violence to stop a symbolic gesture you place yourself and others in jeopardy in a very real sense. How much harm would you be willing to do in order to stop it. Likewise when Bush autographed the American flag for a 'fan' would you have stopped that as well? Are you in favor of this amendment? Is it the most important issue facing the nation? | ||
| gj1 Citizen Username: Gj1 Post Number: 373 Registered: 11-2003 |
so, can I burn this:  | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 5181 Registered: 5-2001 |
Legally, that's not the flag. So even post-Amendment you could. When the US flag is revised, as in this case when Alaska and Hawaii were added, the new flag is the official flag and the older flag has no status. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3584 Registered: 3-2004  |
Well, there goes my point in this discussion. I was about to say, thank goodness the Republicans are pre-occupying themselves with an issue that doesn't result in the loss of human lives. The latest entry (Sbenois') potentially overrules that thought! | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 3051 Registered: 12-2001  |
This one has been desecrated and should be burned:  | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3514 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ah, Tulip, this is a distraction so that they can continue with activities that DO take a human toll.  | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1191 Registered: 2-2004 |
twokitties, You are correct. This issue is silly, but great politics. When us Repubs can get the Dems to support flag burning then we win a lot of votes. When will the Dems ever learn. As for the issue, I'm in line with sbenois. You have a right to burn it but there are a whole lot of other issues around that simple act. If you are on your own private property and burn it then I won't trespass. But if you are on public property, I sure as heck have a right to stand nose to nose with you. And if you begin burning something on public property, I as a citizen, will do the right thing by town/county ordinance. The fact that it is a flag is immaterial. If you burn a card board box in a public area where children and old folks have every right to be then I will attempt to put the fire out. The same as if I saw an elderly person getting mugged or a child in fear of drowing. I would intervene. Protestors have no more rights than the rest of us. I've actually been in similar situations. I have stood many a nose to nose on public property. If you move right, I'll move left. Public property is available to all not just wingnuts (on either side). | ||
| ae35unit Citizen Username: Ae35unit Post Number: 128 Registered: 2-2006  |
Cocktail time already Southerner? | ||
| breal Citizen Username: Breal Post Number: 959 Registered: 6-2002 |
No. But I would hate the person doing the burning unless he was a U.S. soldier or former soldier. The way to hate them, the way to make them feel some real pain, is to ignore them. |
