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Message |
    
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7465
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 12:37 pm: | 
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A state with no leadership. Corzine needs to resign. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14885
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 12:49 pm: |
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I agree with those who think this partial shutdown is wrong. It seems like a political move more than anything else. There's no need to do that.
I also oppose raising the sales tax, because I oppose regressive taxes.
And I don't trust any temporary tax change. I expect all changes to be long-term.
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mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 643
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
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I agree with Tom, but I also would like to hear a responsible, reasonable, and rational alternative to addressing a serious budget shortfall for NJ from our legislature. I've not seen much from our legislature other than political grandstanding, covering their own a**es for re-election by distancing themselves from any type of tax increase. But if the alternative to meet the budget shortfall is cutting budget items, who is volunteering to start sacrificing.
No one.
Unless it just hurts the other guy, and not me. Usually those with no political power..........look for cuts in DYFS, Medicaid, poor urban schools, etc. }
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 896
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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If I was Bob Menendez I would be on the phone to Corzine getting him to cut a deal with the Assembly, because he runs the risk of the being the first democrat to get tagged by Corzine's likely un-popularity.
Forget about Bush and Iraq. New Jersey residents are going to be looking to get back at someone pronto this fall. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7466
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
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exactly..Tom Kean is smiling. |
greenthumb
Citizen
Username: Green_thumb
Post Number: 44
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 4:30 pm: |
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Shouldn't NJ residents be looking to get back at all the career politicians who got us into this mess? Vote out all incumbents is the only way to send a strong message. |
greenthumb
Citizen
Username: Green_thumb
Post Number: 45
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 4:31 pm: |
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You're going to have to write in a candidate for Senate -- any local nominees who are reasonable and cost conscious? |
buddybak
Citizen
Username: Buddybak
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 6:43 pm: |
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I;think that Mr. Norcross should be put in jail for his grandstanding with Mr. Roberts the Assembly Speaker. |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 463
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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What am I missing? First of all, CORZINE DID NOT SHUT THE STATE DOWN--THE LEGISLATURE DID! It is required by law. (Legislatures make the law, right.) Second, how is the sales tax a regressive tax? In NJ, essential items (cloths, shoes, homes, solar panels, etc.) are not subject to sales tax. If you can afford a Hummer, than your paying more in sales tax, right? So, it seems to me that an increase in sales tax is primarily going to hit big spenders most, not poor people. It also seems to me that 99% of State workers are middle class to poor. So why should that wealthy 1% of State workers, the Legislature, take away the others pensions? How many people reading this post, living in Maplewood, make a family income of less than $70,000 dollars a year? Are you making too much money? Do you have too many benefits? A lot of State workers make half that salary. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14904
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
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Yeah, I just found out today that the shutdown is required, not at the governor's discretion. Interesting.
Still, while sales tax doesn't hit food and clothing, a lot of life's essentials are sales-taxed.
How many Maplewoodians make less than $70,000/year family income? Guess what! Nearly half. Median family income is about $80,000. But your point is a good one anyway. This shutdown hurts a lot of people, people who don't deserve to be hurt.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5224
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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I'm amused to discover that Kean is running for US Senate on the platform of the NJ State budget. I suppose it's an improvement over his utterly bogus accusations about Menendez' early political career, accusations that have repeatedly been stated to be false by eyewitnesses. What do you call somebody who continues to say something even though he knows it's not true? That's right -- a Bush Republican.
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Oregon gal
Citizen
Username: Oregon_gal
Post Number: 49
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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While I understand the logic about sales tax being regressive, it is also inclusive, meaning that it captures everyone regardless of their status with the IRS. It captures tourists, people working under the table, those who aren't legal residents of the state (or the country for that matter). It also captures wealthy seniors who may not be earning much income, but have plenty to live off of and who love to vote against money for schools, etc.
I don't know the perfect answer, but I think it must be a mixture of careful cuts, tax relief to those who truly need it and increases in sustainable income sources (like sales tax) for the future. Funding a state with a lottery seems like patching a dam with gauze. Lottery funds should be the icing on the cake.
I remember when Corzine campaigned he was pretty blunt about the state of the state's finances and said that it might not be pretty. Well, here we are.
You can't keep putting the monkey on the back of the same people. Something's gotta give. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 900
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 5, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
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tom-
People aren't electioneering here, just discussing the fallout. Save your efforts for the fall.
greenthumb-
You going to apply that thinking to the MSH school board elections too?  .
The end result of this whole thing is that even if they reach an agreement NJ is going to be tough to run for Jon Corzine, as the pols are going to try and shaft him as much as possible in retaliation after this. That really doesn't help us, whether you are a repub or a dem.
It may be interesting to see if Corzine funds challengers to the dem incumbents in upcoming elections so he can get them in line or get them out.
Norcross just took Corzine out to the woodshed on the budget. Expect more of it from the savvy pols in Trenton. Corzine will have to bring an "A" game to everything now. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5225
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 12:08 am: |
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I'm not the one who started in on Mendendez & Kean. Just following up. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 978
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 8:25 am: |
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Could we try another angle?
The state government spends $30 Billion a year. On what? Rather than raising taxes on the poor, could we cut spending on the rich? |
Nuff Sayid
Citizen
Username: Parkingsux
Post Number: 440
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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I think 12 years ago the budget was closer to 16 billion. Runaway growth - that's what we all see. Fat Cats pushing their own agendas for their own good. |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 841
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 10:43 am: |
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Now a coalition of female legislatures are helpfully and selflessly trying to assert that it's "the guys" who are the problem and that if the government were run entirely by women, this situation "would never have happened."
What an offensive, unhelpful, self-serving, and childish response to the situation.
I have less and less respect for anyone at any level of government in this state moment by moment.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 979
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:22 am: |
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When I have the chance, I'm gonna do some info mining and see what I can find about where the $$$ goes. . . |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1679
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:26 am: |
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Tom R.- The Governor has the authority to override the statutory shutdown; I believe the shutdown has been threatened previously and averted in lieu of good faith Legislative attempts to agree on a budget. No good faith has been demonstrated here, particulary by the Governor and the Speaker who are members of the same party.
This shutdown has impacted minimally on my family so far, but less fortunate people are truly struggling. Imagine if the County or one of the Municipal Governments followed suit to force a showdown on its budget; we'd all feel the pain within a day or so. It's easy to play chicken when you personally have nothing at stake. |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 963
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:42 am: |
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It's easy to play chicken when you personally have nothing at stake.
You might say the same thing about supporting the war in Iraq. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2215
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:42 am: |
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not much digging necessary. Where the money goes:
http://www.state.nj.us/treasury/omb/publications/07bib/pdf/bib.pdf
nice pie chart on p. 79 |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7474
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 2:33 pm: |
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Well, hopefully this mess is over.
TRENTON, N.J. (AP) -- New Jersey lawmakers say a deal on a new state budget could be reached by this afternoon, six days after government services ceased. The lack of a budget closed Atlantic City casinos and threw more than 80-thousand people out of work.
Governor Jon Corzine at noon headed into a meeting with Assembly Speaker Joseph Roberts Junior, the opponent of his plan to raise the state sales tax. The two were joined by the state treasurer and the chair of the Senate's budget committee. Corzine emerged from the meeting about an hour later and said he expected more meetings.
Senate President Richard Codey said he thinks there's progress.
With no budget, the state can't pay its employees, which has caused a ripple effect across New Jersey.
About 350 union state workers and casino employees rallied outside the Statehouse today to press for a new budget.
Corzine's plan to balance the budget is to raise the state sales tax from 6 percent to 7 percent, but several Democratic politicians opposed |
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1767
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 3:09 pm: |
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N.J. Budget Deal Reached After Six-Day Shutdown
UPDATED: 2:53 pm EDT July 6, 2006
TRENTON, N.J. -- New Jersey leaders agreed on a state budget Thursday following a six-day government shutdown that shuttered casinos and threw more than 80,000 people out of work, a high-ranking Statehouse official said.
"They'll be announcing the final elements later this afternoon," said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the governor will announce the deal.
The deal includes a sales tax increase that would raise $1.1 billion a year, a different high-ranking Statehouse official said, speaking on condition of anonymity. Half of the new money would be used to lower property taxes this year, and all of it would go for that purpose next year, the official said.
Hope the later is true!  |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1607
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 3:13 pm: |
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Nicely done Senator Corzine.
Now lets see if our property taxes actually do get lowered (or at least not raised as much).
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Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 3:15 pm: |
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Madden 11- There are plenty of available threads on MOL about the Iraq War without sidetracking this one. |
argon_smythe
Citizen
Username: Argon_smythe
Post Number: 844
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 4:22 pm: |
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Hoops they're not talking about raising OR lowering property taxes... only sending out rebate checks to property owners, the funds of which were collected from the sales taxes, minus the overhead of actually collecting those sales taxes and then administering a program of redirecting those funds back to the property owners. It is one hell of a way to run a railroad.
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Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1683
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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It's a shell game. Property taxes will continue to rise unabated and property tax relief will continue at the same rate. The increased sales tax will replace other revenues currently devoted to relief and those funds will be diverted to other projects. No savings, no true relief and no clear committment to debt reduction. We've been "Corzined". |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 656
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 5:34 pm: |
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Thank you Democrats.
jd |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1685
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 5:40 pm: |
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I agree Joel, speaking as a Democrat myself. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10052
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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Quote:The deal will increase the state sales tax from 6 percent to 7 percent and use half the $1.1 billion that it will raise to help lower property taxes, which are among the highest in the nation.
This is not so bad, methinks. It's the start of a reversal of the Whitman tax shift. It's good for communities like ours. |
Ender
Citizen
Username: Enderw
Post Number: 58
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 6:26 pm: |
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I'm going to take the opposite side of that one Dave - I'm guessing it is bad for towns like ours. Remember the McGreevey homestead rebate - it didn't apply if your income was too high. I can see them giving property taxes back to lower income communities - not Map/MSH.
But, after all of that - we got a 1% sales tax increase and no cut in spending. And, they lost about $5-$10 in revenues during the shut down and I'm sure the workers just got an extended holiday.
Our government at work |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10055
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 7:13 pm: |
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I think it will be targeted aid to municiipalities rather than rebate checks. No income test. |
MHD
Citizen
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 4376
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 7:28 pm: |
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Not to towns that show they don't NEED help by squandering a quarter million of taxpayer dollars for a sculpture |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 910
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 9:27 pm: |
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Dave-
You have to see the final product first before you conclude it will go straight to the municipalities. Given the cast of characters a property tax rebate seems likely to be in the mix, and if so, a number of people in our communities will get nothing.
The agreement also undercut the purpose of the sales tax increase! Especially when you create new taxes, but don't cut spending, increasing it by 10%.
This whole thing, again, is a short term bandaid. Next year they need to go back to the well for more money, and it is going to be the REAL budget year because they are all up for re-election with the spectre of Florio floating over their heads.
There will be real blood on the water next year. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 658
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 10:05 pm: |
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Can't wait.
jd |
tourne
Citizen
Username: Tourne
Post Number: 464
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 6, 2006 - 11:31 pm: |
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How does Corzine get the blame for this? If he did not agree to the property tax joke, the legislators were willing to let the shutdown continue. The biggest waste of money occurs at the muncipal level--the most corruption too. Remember the FBI stings 10 years ago. Giving more money to municipalities for property tax relief is like throwing it away. I hope the rebates go directly to the taxpayers. But what about the budget shortfall???? Once again, the money grubbing, two-bit legislators have their way. Vote all these incumbents out. There has got to be some better people to choose from. Any of you folks up for running? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12057
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:45 am: |
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I doubt that the money will go direct to the homeowner. Most likely it will be dished out to the municipalities and little if any thought will go to the tax burden. It will probably be on a per capitia basis and that will hurt older suburbs such as those here in Essex County. |
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