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Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7476
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:21 am: | 
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good news for Americans/Bad news for libs.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060707/ap_on_re_us/new_york_tunnels_plot |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2219
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:28 am: |
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Quote:FBI agents monitoring Internet chat rooms used by extremists learned in recent months of the plot to strike a blow at the city's economy by destroying vital transportation networks, one official said.
al Qaeda communicates via chatooms for extremists??? are they really that stupid? if so, this whole war on terror thing just got a whole lot easier. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 982
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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The bad guys are not that stupid.
But the morons in the administration certainly seem to be.
War on terror? WHAT war on terror?!? |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 6697
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 10:21 am: |
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What I heard this morning when I learned of this arrest HURRAY GOOD NEWS FOR ALL. was that they intended to blow a hole in the holland tunnel so that there would be Katrina like flooding in downtown Manhattan. Well apparently most of the area south of the tunnel is 10 ft. above sea level, so while it would admittedly be a horrific thing to do (I and many I know use the HT into NYC) it would not flood lower manhattan, which was their overall intent.
I am inclined to agree with the above post. Any time some idiot in the world hatches even a bad plan I am happy they get busted. But if this were a real world Al Qaeda or Al Quida (lets call the whole thing off) plan it is no where near as sophisticated in the planning as their last successful event nearly 5 years ago. We may well have interrupted their C&C but I don't think they would be stupid enough to genuinely plan something like this in a chat room. Almost any idiot in the world would think twice about planning something on a site that they have to know the USA DHS is monitoring.
So...not bad news for libs. Even if this was just some idiot they gave up so they could plan something else while the Americans are patting themselves on the back, as the cops in the city would say thats one more gun off the street.
Glad they got em.
And Straw...super rich guy...aren't you going to join the growing number of financial supports of the MOL MOVIE? C'mon...big tycoon like you can wipe you ••• with what it will take to make this film. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12062
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 10:31 am: |
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Actually, I think some of the conspirators are still at large. The only guy arrested was picked up abroad at our request. Again, while these guys seem even more disfunctional than the clowns in Miami, it is better to have them off the street. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3515
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:24 pm: |
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It's good to see Straw is back. There was a long time when people didn't know what was bad for liberals. They must have thought it was things like murder and other crimes. Perhaps Starbucks running out of half-caf-non-fat-mochachino lattes as well.
Now they all understand that arresting bad guys is bad news for liberals. Thank goodness for Straw. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 663
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:22 pm: |
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As the FBI holds a press conference across the street from my office, and many media broadcast vans clog Broadway, I wonder if the arrest is a result of a diversionary plot by the bad guys.
Why tout this arrest?
Security at the tunnel is tight, and we just told the enemy we are aware of at least a certain level of planning.
But, I still wonder who is fooling whom.
jd |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1615
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:37 pm: |
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jd - are you finally starting to get it?
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Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3478
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 3:46 pm: |
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That is the thing with terrorism--it causes terror, even when there is only a marginal threat. It is easy, after one or two major terrorist attacks, to feign an attack and create terror. And we have no idea which action is a feint, a hoax, or the next real thing.
I do not envy the Bush Admin or the next few Admins as they try to parse through all the crazy mixed signals, half-baked ideas, and potential threats to determine which ones are real and which are not.
The trick is, how to remain an open and democratic society in the face of this type of formless threat? We need a George Kennan for our age--but all both parties give us is a lot of nothing. |
Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 590
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:31 pm: |
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The emphasis is on "aspiration," not on "opoeration." If we still had the color code in operation, we would have seen orange or red or whatever color the Dept of Homeland Security invented. Consider this coincidence: Bush gives one of his rare, hard to process press conferences in Chicago and here we have the FBI going to town about a bunch of guys who were "planning" to blow up the tunnel. Sound familiar? And of course Bush has to just repeat the line that has been passed down to him by his handlers: "We are protexting the freedom of America." This was one press conference where he rambled on and on. His answers on North Korea showed how impotent the US is in the face of a dictatorial nation that really cares two hoots for the west. That's what nuclear detereence achieves and Iran knows it too well. It is obvious that America's sphere of influence does not really extend to Korean turf because the Russians and Chinese have made it amply clear that America cannot take a unilateral decision about the state of N. Korea. Just listening to Bush sound like Condi at the press conference was hysterical, not to miss out on his mangled explanations in a language called English. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3537
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:38 pm: |
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If this alleged plot actually existed, it's the funniest thing I've heard of in a while. Blowing up the Holland Tunnel in order to flood the financial district! The stupidity of it is positively hysterical! The tunnel is below grade, and downtown is above grade. You might as well divert a river to try and make it flow up a mountain.
I think one thing we've learned from this is that there are, apparently, people even dumber than neocons. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7485
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:47 pm: |
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update: The Daily News who broke the story got it wrong. The PATH train was the target. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 985
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 5:00 pm: |
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The stunning ineptitude of these would-be bombers is exceeded only by the incompetence of the administration's neocon draft-dodging chickenhawks.
Experience has shown, time without number, that the only way to defeat terror is to get people on the inside. Our mess of white house dopes have none.
And no idea where Osama is.
Feel secure yet? |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5583
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 5:22 pm: |
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Things I ask myself -
If it was "treason" for the NY Times to write about the Swift program, which was information that the agency itself made public earlier,
Why is it okay for the disclosure of this "chat room monitoring" program, and of the discovery of a plot, before more than one of the "plotters" was caught? |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 668
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
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Hoops:
You don't get it, at all.
We are at war with militant Islam, a war started 1300 hundred years ago by their Mohammad, with his self described enlightened religion at its core, a religion stuck in the 7th century for its militants, which denies the right of you and I to breathe unless we accept his religion, or pay a regular bribe (jezya), to stay alive without conversion.
The Muslim warrior destruction of cultures is neatly categoried in literature, (cites if you ask), and is chilling to read.
Wake up.
jd |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7488
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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exactly Joel,
War was waged long before 9/11. America was asleep at the wheel until 9/11 and this Administration decided to it was time to make a move. In attacking Afghanistan and Iraq, looking to replace outlaw regimes with Democracies, at least the Republicans had and still have a plan.. To date it's the only plan ever outlined and executed in an attempt to halt or slow down Islamic terrorism.
Has it been perfect? Hardly. Will it work? Probably not. Was it worth it? Yes.
It's hard to defeat an enemy that want's to die. All you can do is hope you somehow influence future generations of Muslims with democracy, opportunity and happiness. The same formula that works so well here in America.
Republicans such as Bush understand this. Sadly, so do Democratic leaders but rather than stay the course as all would love to do, they pander to the radical left. Luckily, as things currently stand the left is a powerless bunch and I wake up daily and thank god that this is the case.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5240
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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War was waged long before 9/11. America was asleep at the wheel until 9/11 and this Administration decided to it was time to make a move. In attacking Afghanistan and Iraq, looking to replace outlaw regimes with Democracies, at least the Republicans had and still have a plan. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7491
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:38 pm: |
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thx..War was raged (by Islamic terrorists) long before 9/11..America was asleep at the wheel.. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1616
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:52 pm: |
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tom 
jd - we are at war with Islam? Great. Finally someone with an answer. (not a good one, but at least one). I cant wait for someone in the administration to let us know thats what we are doing. What I want to know is why we are doing it half-assed then? If we are at war with Islam, then why are we only in Iraq and Afghanistan. Shoot, we should be in Syria and Egypt and the Sudan and Pakistan and Indonesia. Lets nuke em till they glow. Yeah, thats the ticket.
Straw
Quote:Has it been perfect? Hardly. Will it work? Probably not. Was it worth it? Yes.
Its not really funny, its sad. If it doesnt work then changing tactics and strategies is what is necessary. Too bad we are stuck with these ultra right wing PNAC corporatists.
Change is coming.
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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10060
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:18 pm: |
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This is great news, but it would have had more street cred with me if it wasn't released on the anniversary of the London underground attacks. The news from the War On Terror front these days sometimes reminds me of the work of agent Alden Pyle in Graham Greene's The Quiet American. |
llama
Citizen
Username: Llama
Post Number: 799
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:29 pm: |
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"All you can do is hope you somehow influence future generations of Muslims with democracy, opportunity and happiness."
I guess that's what "Shock and Awe" represented. This quote was taken from a neo-conservative, war-mongering, hateful person who says people who don't agree with his simplistic tunnelvision aren't American.
It's easy to see from his posts (and our current administration) how any kind of extremism is dangerous.
|
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:45 pm: |
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I think Llama gets the gold star so far for hitting the nail on the head. How can I say delicately, and with reverence to the Constitution, that posts by the likes of Strawberry, are much more similar to shouting fire in a crowded theatre, than discourse that should be met respectfully. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1627
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 10:26 pm: |
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Here here, I'll 2nd that. |
Oregon gal
Citizen
Username: Oregon_gal
Post Number: 56
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 11:25 pm: |
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Sort of on the subject of this thread...As someone new to the NJ train, I have a question about security. I have been struck by what seems to me as a lack of security. For example, many people carry large suitcases onto the train. On one ride into the city with my kids, I was next to a 20 something guy standing in the center of the train with a huge bag. It made me nervous, yet no one else seemed to even notice (including the transit workers). He could have packed all kinds of combustible material into a bag this size. I know that they do random bag searches on the subway, do they do this on the NJ train? It seems like bags of a certain size should all be checked like on airplanes.
Are there security measures going on that I don't see? |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1231
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 1:34 pm: |
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I agree with gal. I think they should check every bag on the trains. All you have to do is get up an extra 2 hours earlier to stand in the security line. And of course, the ACLU would love this. |
Oregon gal
Citizen
Username: Oregon_gal
Post Number: 60
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 6:28 pm: |
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I don't think that's what I was suggesting. I'm sincerely curious if there is anyone in the know (and not just trying to be sarcastic) about the security on the trains. I'd like my husband (and everyone else's loved ones) to come home from work each day in one piece. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1232
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 6:49 pm: |
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Gal,
We live in a free country. Do you really need someone to tell you that there is very limited security on the trains? The same is true at shopping malls, schools, school buses, and just about every aspect of our nation other than airports, government buildings, and high rent office buildings. Other than those place, there is no security. Any bomber with a backpack or huge suitcase could walk right in. And yes, I want everyone to come home safely as well, but please don't kid yourself. There will be future terrorist attacks and just plain future random violence. And what I love is that the libs don't even like our government monitoring the bad guys. When they start blowing up subway cars in NYC and commuter trains like they did in London, something tells me the nice New Jersey libs will be screaming about how little our government did. |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1970
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 6:56 pm: |
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And you'll say...
I love it!!
There can be a balance between providing security and violating civil liberties. Would you be happy if W simply declared martial law? |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7507
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 7:06 pm: |
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Notehead wrote:
"If this alleged plot actually existed, it's the funniest thing I've heard of in a while."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060709/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_new_york_tunnels_plot;_ylt=Aq5Mz6vN1.YUnmtbafHdp4xvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
There's nothing funny about this, Notehead. |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 360
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 9:07 pm: |
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1. Thursday -- Bush in trouble with "Swift" disclosure.
2. Need diversion to take attention from Swift.
3. Miracle happens: Friday -- Head of F.B.I. interviewed by Larry King. In the
middle of the interview, King is handed a bulletin that F.B.I. agents in Miami
arrested plotters wanting to blow up the Sears Tower.
4. People laugh at the plotters who want camo. to wear while blowing up the tower.
5. That didn't work, need something else....enter the Path subway chatroom
plotters.
Now maybe Bush ain't good at catching Bin Ladin but he's my man. Al Quaida is probably quaking in their turbans now that they know any and all future plots will be thwarted by the Daily News, C.I.A, N.S.A and the F.B.I. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7511
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 9:43 pm: |
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foolish way to look at things. I feel sorry for people like you who don't understand the world as it is today. |
Oregon gal
Citizen
Username: Oregon_gal
Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 9, 2006 - 10:11 pm: |
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From Yahoo news tonight; "...the FBI said the suspects are alleged to have planned to attack trains under the Hudson River using suicide bombers and BACKPACK BOMBS..."
So can someone besides the SS (Strawberry & Southerner, just made that up, has a nice ring to it) tell me why it's so silly to think that there should be more random checks of bags & baggage? Why shouldn't there be TSA officials working with the transit systems in NY and Chicago? Why shouldn't there be undercover "Train Marshals" like Air Marshals? Why can't the random checks be done while the train is en route as opposed to a security line before boarding?
JohnC - A big part of me believes what you say about diversionary tactics, but I also think if I were a terrorist, the train would be an easy target. It's what I call a "both/and" conversation. We need to BOTH question the source of information and the motive of the informer (can you say Orange Alert) AND take prudent steps to defend ourselves. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1234
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 9:40 am: |
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SO,
I agree there is a balance between security and civil liberties. I have never disagreed with this point. The struggle we are having is that balancing point. You and I have different views of where that balancing point should be. I don't dislike you because we have a difference of opinion on this or any matter. I simply say let's fight it out in the political arena. Your side just keeps losing which adds to your anger, and I have no problem pointing this out. And you libs already have proved you don't have any backbone. After 9/11 most of you lined up with Bush and gave him a blank check. Now the libs regret this and have to run against themselves which is why Kerry lost, pure and simple. When NYC is hit again you libs will do the exact same thing. Either way, us neo-cons are setting the balancing point while all your side has is empty rhetoric. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3542
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 10:17 am: |
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Straw, thinking you could flood an area above grade by destroying a tunnel below grade is so incredibly stupid that it's really quite funny. In fact, it is so dumb that I'm waiting to learn that it was fabricated by someone high up in our administration. Incidentally, I'd bet you didn't realize it wouldn't work until somebody explained it to you. Am I right?
Hey, maybe this is next: Terrorist Plot To Destroy NYC By Sneaking Up On It When It Is Taking A Nap. |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 660
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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I'm learning to love the smell of burnt strawberries........... |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 3075
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 12:29 pm: |
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There were conflicting assessments among U.S. counterterrorism officials about the significance of the plot.
Two U.S. counterterrorism officials, speaking on the condition that their names and agencies not be identified because the FBI is the government's lead agency, discounted the ability of the conspirators to carry out an attack.
One said the plot was "not as far along" as described and was "more aspirational in nature." The other described the threat as "jihadi bravado," adding "somebody talks about tunnels, it lights people up," but that there was little activity to back up the talk.
. . .
Like the plot announced yesterday, the Miami group's plans were described by investigators as "aspirational." |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 3078
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 3:15 pm: |
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http://www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/?p=255 |
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