| Author |
Message |
    
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3615
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 12:08 pm: | 
|
Nice and folksy, in the heartland. Yup.
Bush says he wants General Casey to "make the decision about how many troops will be in Iraq," and not some "political noise..." to make the decision. This, after he made his point that the newly democratic leaders of China, South Korea, Taiwan and Japan "respond to the voices of the people" or words to that effect.
This guy, Bush, is so confused. He is for the "will of the people" and against "political noise." You know, when you have an oligarchy in power in a great nation like the United States, and you have an imperial presidency taking power through an act of the judicial branch of the federal government, not the totality of actual votes, you cannot express the "will of the people" without sounding like "political noise." I, for one, am taking offense, and am insulted, by hearing the POTUS refer to my voice, and others, whether I agree with them or not, as "political noise."
Just another sign of his sense of imperial majesty and his "divine kingship."
Horrendous!
So he wants the military leader to decide when we can leave and when we can stay.
So who's the leader of the US? General Casey? Another unelected official in control of all of us, our future and the world view of the US.
Thanks, Bush, and all who voted for him.
Thanks a whole bunch...
|
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1773
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 12:38 pm: |
|
What? Poor Georgy boy can't "make a decision?"
I thought HE was the DECIDER? 
"I am the decider" |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7477
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
|
Yes, we would prefer a President who ignores the advise of our Military leaders....
|
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3616
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:02 pm: |
|
Advise???? That's not what BUSH said, Strawberry. He said, "General Casey will make the decision how many troops will be in Iraq." CASEY WILL MAKE THE DECISION about the future, present and focus of the American people, the place my taxes, your taxes, and everyone's taxes go, instead of to the health, education and wellbeing of American citizens.
I guess if Casey's making "the decision" that gets Bush off the hook. It won't be his fault if it turns out it's too early or too late.
After working with elementary school kids for many years, it's easy to figure out Bush's infantile thoughts.
Strawberry,
Go back into self-imposed exile.
Also, Bush is talking about diplomacy, when asked about North Korea. "Diplomacy takes time. YOu have to be patient."
Laughing Out Loud.
Where was sufficient patience and diplomacy, not to mention intelligence, to find out who was really responsible for 9/11??
|
Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1774
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |
|
How about a president who IGNORED his Military advisers when they said, "We NEEDed more troops?"
“The administration also failed to provide some 100,000 additional U.S. troops that American military commanders originally wanted to help restore order and reconstruct a country shattered by war, a brutal dictatorship and economic sanctions.”
Bush only heeded advice that matched his preconceptions. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7478
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:14 pm: |
|
Tulip,
He's been saying this for two years. When the military tells him they believe it's time to reduce the troop load he will follow their advise.
Seems to me, your hatred of this President disallows you to make rational comments about him. He's talking about a pullout or at least a pullback, your goal from day one. Now, even that's not good enough for you.. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3617
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:21 pm: |
|
And your unwavering devotion makes it impossible for you to see the forest for the trees.
Where are the American people in all this? Bush decides? Casey decides? What about us? We didn't appoint him King, Strawberry, and we have been saying that for a lot more than two years.
No it's not good enough. What will be good enough will be November, 2008. Anyone would be better.
And I don't hate him until he speaks.
He's a condescending pluch. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7479
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 1:56 pm: |
|
"What about us?"
Congress just voted a few weeks ago and they decided against a timetable. There's your "us". |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 12064
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
|
To bad he and Rummy didn't let the military set the troop levels for the invasion.  |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3618
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:05 pm: |
|
Strawberry:
True. That shows you how out of touch Congress is with the "us" out here. If Washington were the place to be, and inside Washington types had their finger on the pulse of the rest of the US, Bush would not be in Chicago "seeing what it's like to hold a press conference somewhere other than Washington." Well, if Bush and Congress want to know what the rest of the US is thinking, they could try looking at the polls.
Washington is not "us" by any means, Strawberry. Maybe Congress is you, whoever you are, but it's not me, and apparently, some residents of South Orange and Maplewood don't appreciate Congressional views on Iraq right now, either. Count yourself among a party of about....four...Molers, still posting and not banned...who want to stay in Iraq as long as Congress does.
Thank you very much. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7481
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
|
If Americans were to take the advise of the majority of MOLers we would be called "The People's Republic of America." |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3619
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 2:30 pm: |
|
Did someone make some political noise just now? |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 264
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 3:22 pm: |
|
It would be funny, if not otherwise tragic given the state of affairs in Iraq (with the 2,500 plus Americans dead, 15,000 plus injured, half a trillion spent and counting, and all the dead Iraqi civilians that even Bush concedes is in exceess of 30,000; all while the Taliban is growing resurgent in Afghanistan. Americans remember the Taliban don't they? The group that gave ACTUAL support, comfort and a place to train to those that brought us 9/11) that Bush is now calling for patient diplomacy with North Korea. Didn't he label them part of the Axis of Evil? Doesn't North Korea have ACTUAL weapons of mass destruction?
America got what it deserved by electing this clown twice. The most accurate and honest comment Bush ever made about Iraq is that it will be some other president's problem come 2009. How right he was on that count.
Again, when is the Bush administration ever going to realize, as his military adisers on the ground have said, "you can't have insurgencies of this strength and duration unless they have broad public support from the civilian populations"?
Not only did his military advisers say more troops were needed but many said going into Iraq would be a mistake and would take needed resources (troops, money, attention) away from the war in Afghanistan. He didn't pay a bit of attention to them.
We defeated Nazi Germany (while also fighting Japan!) in three years and five months. We have just passed our third year and fourth month in Iraq, and have been even longer in Afghanistan, with no end in sight. America knew back then that war is a brutal business, that you only fight a war when you absolutley have to, and that when the decision is made to go to war it has to be prosecuted correctly, with many allies by your side and major sacrifice by the entire populace.
Bush, Cheney and Rummy thought they could win both wars fast and cheap and that we can have tax cuts at the same time. They didn't need to listen to anyone because they knew best. They saw none of this coming and didn't plan for it, which is unfortunate for our brave men and women in uniform.
And before I'm inevitably called a "moron", and/or a "commie", and/or this is labeled "boring", please note that the above sentiments were written with contributions from two realtives, one a decorated WWII combat veteran from the Pacific Theater, and the other a decorated combat veteran from Vietnam. Two people who know a little about war.
|
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 266
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:25 pm: |
|
Unfortunately, we do have a president who ignores the advice of his military leaders if they are saying things he doesn't want to hear. |
joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 666
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:30 pm: |
|
The People's Republic of Bush Derangement Syndromelandia.
He and his advisors aren't perfect; and neither are we.
jd |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5237
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 4:52 pm: |
|
Well the last thing they'd want would be government of the people. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1224
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 6:14 pm: |
|
I love this. MOL over the past month has become nothing more than a constant whine by the loser Democrats. This thread in particular. You want to know what the people said, here's what they said - We elect Republicans because we want them to make the decision. I'm calling all you crybaby Democrats out. You whine and whine like 4 year olds. The American public have elections every two years and they have been saying the same thing. Your problem is you are deaf. I am really going to enjoy watching the Republicans maintain Congress this November because it will only reinforce your insecurities on many issues including terrorism and the economy. And yes, I do love that you crybabies are so unnerved by Bush. You should be. Bush and us neo-cons are out to destroy your little liberal nation you have tried to create while you were in power. We are slowly dismantling the welfare state and soon enough we will go after the public education system which is the last area you libs control. Make no mistake, the battle of philosophy is in full swing. The problem is the Democratic Party no longer has a solid base and their pandering is no longer paying dividends. I absolutely love this. Keep whining and we'll keep winning. |
kenney
Citizen
Username: Kenney
Post Number: 797
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 6:15 pm: |
|
straw,
It's not Tulip's hatred of this President that disallows her to make rational comments--it's her bipolar disorder. Please keep this in mind when entering a debate with her. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5239
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 6:17 pm: |
|
Quote:We are slowly dismantling the welfare state and soon enough we will go after the public education system which is the last area you libs control. Make no mistake, the battle of philosophy is in full swing.
So you'll have everybody poor and ignorant, just the way the class warriors like them. Realpolitik aside, you should be very proud when you finally turn the U.S. into Bangladesh. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3624
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 6:17 pm: |
|
And remember how you were banned the last time you hurled insults at me, kenney boy.
bettyd: Thanks for your great post. I don't understand how neo-cons, right wingers, whatever they call themselves, can think it's OK to coopt the liberal agenda, (diplomacy, patience, etc.) and then attack the liberals.
I guess they suffer from a lack of creativity, or just plain brain-power. They are definitely great attack dogs, just not very good at...thinking.
It's all a lost cause.
We just have to keep our heads down and our eyes peeled for irrational searches, seizures, zany screaming right wing-nuts blaming everything on Clinton, etc. etc., nuclear clouds brought on by a lack of leadership, knowledge of diplomacy, knowledge of other cultures, for two more years.
If they win again, then you will see whining.
|
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1228
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 10:47 pm: |
|
Yeah tom,
Keep believing your liberal wet dream of competent government schools. The government is so good at running efficient programs. The country is waking to the fact that you liberals have run our educational system into the ground. I know the Democratic mind controlled teacher's union will fight like heck to keep our children ignorant, but the pendulum is already moving. Your Democratic forefathers would be ashamed at what the modern day party has become. And now you defend one of the biggest failures of liberalism. You Dems are so out of touch but that is beside the point. The point is we no longer care what you think or what you believe. We are moving forward and will run roughshod over you. When all you have to offer is insults it truly demonstrates your ineptitude as a legitimate political force. And did I mention how much I love that GW gets to your kind so much. I love it. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 267
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 9:46 am: |
|
Hey Tulip, Southerner is "calling us out." Ooh. I'm scared, aren't you? What a milksop, just like our president. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5243
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
|
Southerner, one of these days I'm going to compile a "greatest hits" list of all the posts of yours that either start with or end with "I love this." It's like a nervous tic.
What precisely is your answer to government-run schools? From my end, it looks as though the conservative answer is sending taxpayers' money to private and religious schools. If I got rebated my $9,000 per pupil that my property taxes cover, where am I going to find a private school that cheap?
And why the constant railing against teachers' unions? Because of their competence? No, it's just because they're a union.
Conservatives hate unions because they force the people with money to part with some of it. Back in the 19th century they called out the Pinkerton boys, or even the army, to quell such disturbances. You probably would have loved that, too. Conservatives hate public education, too. Private schools are great for theirs, but if the unwashed start to get too smart, who knows what could happen.
Cirricula aren't set up by the unions, they're set up by the administrations. Educational fads like new math aren't created by the teachers' unioins, they come from academia and filter through the administrations. Administrations are hired by Boards of Education, which are freely elected.
If you want better teachers, start with better people. Make primary education one of the most desirable jobs in America by funding it so that the salaries are competitive. Liberals aren't running the education system into the ground (if it is, which it's not), stingy taxpayers are. |
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 944
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 12:31 pm: |
|
Tulip:"Count yourself among a party of about....four...Molers, still posting and not banned...who want to stay in Iraq as long as Congress does."
Where do you get your figures? When was free speech/opinion banned on MOL?
I never got the memo.
|
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 4:09 pm: |
|
Southerner: Give me one example of how Bush has cut back what you call "the Welfare State". His whole initiative on Social Security failed. The "real" conservatives are angry at him for spending money like a liberal. The country may may still trust the GOP more than the Dems on national security but they all love their government benefits. And I have no doubt that if their were a referendum on closing the Public Schools and having all private education it would go down to overwhelming defeat.
Public Education has been educating the overwhelming majority of Americans for over 150 years. If it's been such a disaster why isn't the country in much worse shape? And why are State Universities thriving? |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3661
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 9:47 pm: |
|
bettyd: Yes, I'm terrified!!
mtierney: They just...drifted away....
The neo-cons, that is... |
mimosa
Citizen
Username: Mimosa
Post Number: 219
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 9:50 pm: |
|
Tom,
I noticed the same thing about Southerner's "love" of numerous posts...he/she is so frequently a-tingle with love of posts here...it's a southern love fest.
Thank you for your articulate post! You put into words very clearly what I believe about public education and teachers' unions. |
Oregon gal
Citizen
Username: Oregon_gal
Post Number: 54
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Saturday, July 8, 2006 - 11:02 pm: |
|
Wow, you are a fiery bunch! bettyd, thank you for your amazingly articulate post.
Southerner, before you go attacking me, I am not a democrat. I am a registered independent. After careful research, I have voted for candidates and issues of both parties my entire adult life. I sincerely believe that only voting party line is as bad as not voting at all. No one is right all of the time.
With that said, your position on public education is very troubling. As a believer in the American Dream, I believe that access to world class education for all children is the only way to keep that dream alive. I honestly believe that we should be sending our best and brightest teachers to the poorest neighborhoods and reducing class size in those neighborhoods before any others.
Instead of spending the resources of the state/nation to incarcerate, why not educate? I don't see any religious schools lining up to this. If you have a better plan, I honestly, sincerely would like to hear it.
Public schools are one of the last places we have that connect people in this country to others with different socio-economic backgrounds, which is part of the reason I want my kids there. As someone who believes in a capitalist economy I am realistic that there will always be winners and losers. As someone with a heart and empathy, I don't believe that "losing" should be a generational condition. In India it's called a caste system. We can do better. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page