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tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3626
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 6:56 pm: | 
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Did you hear Jim Micklashevsky on NBC just now? Guilt has been found going up the chain of command for Haditha, as they were found to have killed and planned the killing of innocent civilians in outright, pre-meditated, cold blooded murder. Here we go again. This **** has got to stop. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7487
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:11 pm: |
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zzzzzzzz |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3627
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:13 pm: |
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Straw, you didn't sleep when Hussein was killing innocent women and children. You rattled your little sabre all over MOL. Look in the archives. You published bloody pictures of corpses left by Saddam. You blasted anyone who disagreed with full scale war. Just who is inconsistent here? |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15264
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:23 pm: |
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sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15265
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:26 pm: |
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Yo KOA, are you seeing any server problems tonight? That's sure not what the preview had. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3629
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:30 pm: |
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So, you think the killings at Haditha are a joke, sbenois?
I am speaking English. I don't give a ....what you think you're speaking. |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15266
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:35 pm: |
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I would strongly urge you to read my last post and retract your last one. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3630
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:37 pm: |
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Sbenois, oh great and mighty, beloved by all men and women of maplewood and so, great sardonic, sarcastic pasha of pushtin. Do you really think you are better than everyone? What about GUILT don't you GET. The MILITARY BRASS is found guilty of MURDER in HADITHA. Stay tuned.
And what is to retract? It was your post that was a spoof of my thread, no?
If not, it certainly could be considered to be.
What did your post have to do with Haditha?
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sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15267
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:42 pm: |
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TULIP LET ME TRANSLATE THIS FOR YOU: I POSTED SOMETHING, SAW IT IN THE PREVIEW, SENT IT AND THE ABOVE POST OF CHARACTERS CAME OUT. I SUBSEQUENTLY LEFT A MESSAGE FOR DAVE (KOA) TO SEE IF THE SERVER BURPED OR THE PROBLEM WAS ON MY SIDE.
GOT IT NOW? I SURE HOPE SO.
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tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3631
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:43 pm: |
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So, what were you trying to write? |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15268
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:55 pm: |
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Tulip, you are no longer worth responding to.
KOA, I see the characters in a cache copy so it's on my side. Very weird. I need to check out the Mozilla site. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3632
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 7:59 pm: |
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And why is that?
Where have I lied, been sarcastic, cynical or said anything rude to anyone who hasn't been overwhelmingly rude to me on some occasion.
What do you think of Haditha? Are you upset because you have to pay a penny higher on your sales tax?
That's it, isn't it?
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Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7490
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:36 pm: |
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No, he's just sick of your blame America routine. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3634
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:49 pm: |
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Oh, so he does think Haditha is a joke.
And now you speak for him? Do you also represent kenney, SLK, southerner, factvsfiction?
Are you some kind of neo-con wall?
Who are you, anyway? |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1617
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:56 pm: |
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tulip, when you say 'up the chain of command', what are you referring to? How high up the chain and who is responsible?
It is a sad situation but with troops stop lossed and no relief in the pipeline, it is easy to see how fatigue could contribute to horrors like this. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3635
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 8:59 pm: |
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I am stating, Hoops, what I heard on NBC national news this evening. Jim Michlaschevsky (sp?) reported that there was culpability "up the military chain of command" for what happened at Haditha. The verdict had been reached. I am sure this wasn't a "fluke" and you will be hearing more about it.
If you could all be patient, I am sure you will have answers to your questions.
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tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3636
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:10 pm: |
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Report finds US Marines failed to probe Haditha: CBS 11 minutes ago
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. military report into the killings of up to 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha last year found that senior Marine officers failed to investigate conflicting and false reports of the killings, CBS News reported on Friday.
Despite evidence that initial reports the civilians died in a roadside bomb attack were false, the investigation found that no Marine officer in the chain of command questioned the original account despite several "red flags," CBS said.
Iraqi officials accuse Marines of shooting dead up to 24 people in Haditha, including women and children in their homes, after a Marine was killed in a roadside bomb attack. It would be the worst known case of U.S. military abuse in Iraq since the 2003 invasion.
The military said earlier on Friday that Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, had been sent a report on whether there was a cover-up of Marines' involvement in the killings. The findings of the report have not been released.
Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, head of ground forces in Iraq, completed his review of the investigative report into whether Marines involved in the November 19 incident lied about what happened when the Iraqi civilians were killed and whether senior officers sufficiently examined their account.
"Chiarelli completed his findings and recommendations today and forwarded copies of the report to the commander (of) Multi-National Forces-Iraq," the military said in a statement.
The report is separate from a Naval Criminal Investigative Service probe that U.S. politicians privy to some evidence have said seems likely to lead to charges of premeditated murder.
CBS said the report found there was no effort to correct an inaccurate U.S. military press release, which repeated the initial false report that civilians were killed by a roadside bomb when in fact they were all killed by gunshot wounds.
The distribution by one Marine officer of $38,000 in compensation payments to the victims' families was further clear evidence that the original report was wrong, CBS cited the investigation as saying.
"ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT"
A U.S. military official in Baghdad said the report found room for improvement in areas "from reporting, to training to the command environment" but stressed the report was "purely administrative" and not a basis for criminal proceedings.
Chiarelli received the findings of the investigative team headed by Major General Eldon Bargewell three weeks ago.
The military official said it was Chiarelli's goal to make public the report's findings as soon as possible, with the goal of "full and total disclosure."
The probe was one of a series into alleged misconduct by U.S. troops in Iraq. The Haditha case in particular has drawn comparisons with the 1968 My Lai massacre in Vietnam.
The Marine Corps has instructed commanders to retain documents related to the killing of Iraqi civilians both in Haditha and Hamdania, both in western Anbar province, because Congress will likely hold hearings and request the information, according to a memo obtained by Reuters.
Seven Marines and a Navy medic have been charged with premeditated murder and other crimes in the April killing of an Iraqi civilian in Hamdania, a village west of Baghdad.
The July 6 memo instructs all commanders to retain and preserve documents and e-mail messages related to those incidents, "their planning, execution and subsequent reporting and any documents referring to any aspect of them."
"The alleged events at Haditha and Hamdania have generated intense interest both in the media and Congress," the memo stated. "We can reasonably anticipate that Congress will hold hearings regarding those events and will request the production of records that pertain to them."
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tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3637
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:12 pm: |
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There's more breaking news from Reuters right now. I just can't copy it fast enough. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3638
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:17 pm: |
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BAGHDAD (Reuters) - A U.S. military report into the killings of up to 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha last year found that senior Marine officers failed to investigate conflicting and false reports of the killings, CBS News reported on Friday.
Despite evidence that initial reports the civilians died in a roadside bomb attack were false, the investigation found that no Marine officer in the chain of command questioned the original account despite several "red flags," CBS said.
Iraqi officials accuse Marines of shooting dead up to 24 people in Haditha, including women and children in their homes, after a Marine was killed in a roadside bomb attack. It would be the worst known case of U.S. military abuse in Iraq since the 2003 invasion.
The military said earlier on Friday that Gen. George Casey, the top U.S. military commander in Iraq, had been sent a report on whether there was a cover-up of Marines' involvement in the killings. The findings of the report have not been released.
Lieutenant General Peter Chiarelli, head of ground forces in Iraq, completed his review of the investigative report into whether Marines involved in the November 19 incident lied about what happened when the Iraqi civilians were killed and whether senior officers sufficiently examined their account.
"Chiarelli completed his findings and recommendations today and forwarded copies of the report to the commander (of) Multi-National Forces-Iraq," the military said in a statement.
The report is separate from a Naval Criminal Investigative Service probe that U.S. politicians privy to some evidence have said seems likely to lead to charges of premeditated murder.
CBS said the report found there was no effort to correct an inaccurate U.S. military press release, which repeated the initial false report that civilians were killed by a roadside bomb when in fact they were all killed by gunshot wounds.
The distribution by one Marine officer of $38,000 in compensation payments to the victims' families was further clear evidence that the original report was wrong, CBS cited the investigation as saying.
"ROOM FOR IMPROVEMENT"
A U.S. military official in Baghdad said the report found room for improvement in areas "from reporting, to training to the command environment" but stressed the report was "purely administrative" and not a basis for criminal proceedings.
Chiarelli received the findings of the investigative team headed by Major General Eldon Bargewell three weeks ago.
The military official said it was Chiarelli's goal to make public the report's findings as soon as possible, with the goal of "full and total disclosure."
The probe was one of a series into alleged misconduct by U.S. troops in Iraq. The Haditha case in particular has drawn comparisons with the 1968 My Lai massacre in Vietnam.
The Marine Corps has instructed commanders to retain documents related to the killing of Iraqi civilians both in Haditha and Hamdania, both in western Anbar province, because Congress will likely hold hearings and request the information, according to a memo obtained by Reuters.
Seven Marines and a Navy medic have been charged with premeditated murder and other crimes in the April killing of an Iraqi civilian in Hamdania, a village west of Baghdad.
The July 6 memo instructs all commanders to retain and preserve documents and e-mail messages related to those incidents, "their planning, execution and subsequent reporting and any documents referring to any aspect of them."
"The alleged events at Haditha and Hamdania have generated intense interest both in the media and Congress," the memo stated. "We can reasonably anticipate that Congress will hold hearings regarding those events and will request the production of records that pertain to them."
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tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3639
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
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This implies that the military command looked the other way when there were errors (read lies) in the reporting of deaths.
Chain of command, guilt, culpability, murder. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1618
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:47 pm: |
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To be more to the point, the chain of command -wherever it leads - was responsible for a cover-up, very serious but not murder. The marines involved in the shootings are responsible for murder (if the allegations are true).
I am all for punishment of those involved in this cover-up to the full extent of the law, but I cant see how the chain of command is responsible for murder. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3643
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:53 pm: |
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Hoops,
Officials didn't pull the trigger. Officials looked the other way when lies were told.
War is murder, or as llama says, war is the suspension of intelligent behavior in humans.
You don't have to agree with me, but complicity in looking the other way when lies were told about what happened means guilt.
Thanks,
t. |
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 147
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 7, 2006 - 9:57 pm: |
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Strawberry doesn't understand the chain of command because unless drafted, those who send young people to war, typically, do not serve... |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3666
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 5:17 pm: |
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"Failure of leadership may result in career-ending discipline..." for military officials who looked the other way.
CNN JUST NOW> |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14945
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 10, 2006 - 5:26 pm: |
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It's not shocking that this happens during war, though it is deplorable. What's shocking is that the decision to go to war didn't weigh in this sort of eventuality.
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