| Author | Message | ||
     Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 1639 Registered: 9-2004 |
as an Independent. Seems like Joe thinks he will lose the CT Primary. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7523 Registered: 10-2001 |
Sad, One of the truly few honest Democrats left. Man, for you libs to vote Joe out. How stupid of all of you. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 32 Registered: 5-2006  |
I would not be too excited about this if I was a Democrat. If he wins as an Independent, that’s obviously one less seat the Democrats will have towards regaining a majority. Imagine if the Dems wind up one short with Joe as an Independent. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3658 Registered: 5-2001  |
I believe he has said if he runs as an independant and wins, he will join with the Democratic Caucus. From his website... I have been a proud, loyal and progressive Democrat since John F. Kennedy inspired my generation of Americans into public service. And I will stay a Democrat, whether I am the Democratic Party’s nominee or a petitioning Democratic candidate on the November ballot. And, If I am privileged enough to be re-elected in November, I will remain a member of the Democratic Caucus, hopefully a Senate Democratic Majority Caucus. Is Joe Lieberman leaving the Democratic Party? A. No. He has been a registered Democrat his whole life and he will always be a registered Democrat. If he petitions his way onto the ballot in November, he would continue to be a registered Democrat. If he wins in November, he would organize with the Democrats and vote –as he always has- with the Democrats in Washington. He would be the same public servant he always has been—with a strong progressive voting record | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12096 Registered: 5-2001 |
Good news for the GOP. If the Democratic primary voters unseat Joe and he runs in November as an Independent he will split the vote and give the GOP another seat in the Senate, along with, probably, New Jersey. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 33 Registered: 5-2006 |
I'm not 100% sure how it works but I believe that while he will caucus with the Democrats, if he is in the Senate as an Independent, that is one less the Democrat can count towards the majority they need to take control. Kind of like when the Republicans lost control when Jeffords became an Independent. | ||
| gertie Citizen Username: Gertie Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2006 |
He doesn't vote with Democrats now. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2222 Registered: 8-2003  |
Lieberman's decision means little to the Democratic Party's chances of controlling the Sentate. His assumption is that he would win in Nov as an independent because he enjoys major support from the state's Repbulicans, and the Republican candidate is largely unknown, inexperienced, and underfunded. But if he won, he'd caucus with the Democrats which for all intents and purposes would make him a Democrat. If the Dems got 49 Senate seats, plus 2 independents (Jeffords and Lieberman), they would control the chairs of the committees. With regard to Jeffords and the loss of majority for the Republicans in '01, the reason was that he switched which party he caucused with, even though he didn't become a Democrat. In the case of Lieberman, he would continue to caucus with his current party.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Jeffords The election in CT is not about which party controls the Senate. It's about whether Joe Lieberman can vote with the Republicans on major issues, recite RNC talking points on cable news programs, declare his intention to run as an independent, and still represent the Democrats of CT. The election is about whether the Democratic Party will retain any integrity as an alternative to the Republicans, or whether they'll completely roll over. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 955 Registered: 4-2006 |
The democrats are signing their death warrant as a national party capable of retaking and holding the presidency and a majority of the Senate and Congress if the the nut job democratic left is successful in unseating Lieberman. Lieberman represents the traditional mix of liberal social policies and prudent international relations that has allowed the democratic party to govern this country in the past. The Dean-a-maniacs and Kos-lunatics are turning the party into an un-electable game preserve of public union workers and well-to-do brie-eating Volvo drivers who will lose, and lose again, in pursuit of a perverted idea of what democratic "integrity" is,while being out of touch with most Americans. Some of the bright lights on this board can then rail about everything being President Jeb Bush's fault for four years, while they have kept their ideology of clueless defeatism "pure". Like watching lemmings going over the cliff. Incredible. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2006 |
Rich Lowry had an article on that today: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=NGY3ZmNiYTYxYWUzYjZiNzg5MzgzOWI1ODI2NGIyNmM = | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 975 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lieberman represents the traditional mix of liberal social policies and prudent international relations that has allowed the democratic party to govern this country in the past. Like forcing rape victims to shop around for emergency rooms and engaging in wars of choice that become endless occupations. What ever will America do without steadfast, prudent leadership like that? | ||
| Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 1645 Registered: 9-2004 |
Bob K, I think your point about Joe splitting the vote is spot on. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 957 Registered: 4-2006 |
Madden 11- From your posts I can tell you're the type of ideological true believer that will only be happy when the dems are in the permanent minority, but have the "right" ideas. According to you, that is. You will never find any politicial candidate that is perfect or flawless. Stop drinking the Kos kool-aide and come back to reality. | ||
| GOP Man Citizen Username: Headsup Post Number: 423 Registered: 5-2005  |
you are right on! the only way the Democrats can survive is to have more members like Joe Lieberman who vote like Republicans. We Republicans are in the majority, and it stands to reason that the best opportunity for Democrats is to be more like us. If voters wanted an alternative to Republicans, the Republicans wouldn't be in the majority. It stands to reason. | ||
| Billy Jack Citizen Username: Kendalbill Post Number: 194 Registered: 6-2002  |
Look, I'm from Connecticut and first registered there as a Republican in 1979. I think you need to look at the whole Lieberman thing within the context of how the parties work in the nutmeg state. Remember who Lieberman defeated to take his seat? He defeated Lowell Weicker a LIBERAL Republican (remember those?) in 1988. He ran to the right of the incumbent and has stayed there since on most issues. Growing up, the Dems were usually socially conservative and the Repubs were, while not progressive exactly, open minded. On a local basis, the Repubs were often for increased spending on schools and works, the Dems for cutting taxes. Blow your mind, eh? Historically, party lines don't amount to much up there. That said, if I still lived in the Fourth Congressional District up there, I would hold my nose and vote for Lieberman and Chris Shays. Shays is a Republican and has been a prominent critic of Bush's on many issues- finance reform, homeland security, Gitmo, etc. He has been courageous at times at some cost- which shows me some level of character. Yes, both support the war- which I admit is a HUGE issue. But I can see Shays evolving his position and he is correct on many issues. And Lieberman- well, he's got seniority. And I don't see Ned Lamott bringing anything to the party but his antiwar stance. Yes, its important, but it is enough? Don't think so... | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 976 Registered: 12-2003 |
From your posts I can tell you're the type of ideological true believer that will only be happy when the dems are in the permanent minority, but have the "right" ideas. According to you, that is. Your analysis of my posts is every bit as keen as your analysis of national politics...which is to say, not very. I voted for John Kerry, despite his support of the Iraq war. I support Harry Reid, despite his being anti-choice. How does that jibe with what you perceive to be my "true believer" status? Unflagging allegiance to my ideology has little to do with it. The bottom line is, I believe the current leadership of the Republican party to be very dangerous to this country for a lot of reasons, so I'm supporting candidates who actively oppose them. And I'm opposing candidates who actively support them, especially if that support includes the smearing and belittling of my (quite mainstream) beliefs in the process. We need a Democratic majority as soon as possible, and Joe Lieberman makes that goal more difficult by providing cover for the President and his agenda. End of story. I suppose if, say, Orrin Hatch started to vociferously denounce and insult the President, his Republican colleagues, and the base of the party while at the same time praising Hillary Clinton and boasting of his "independence," the same Republicans that are now defending Lieberman would stand up and cheer his integrity? You will never find any politicial candidate that is perfect or flawless. Ned Lamont being an obvious example. I'm not looking for perfect. I'm willing to settle for "less than awful." Stop drinking the Kos kool-aide and come back to reality. I've never been much for kool aid...how's the flavor over at the National Review? | ||
| Buttercup Citizen Username: Buttercup Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2005  |
I worked for Joe for a year on the Hill. Let's just say that even the most "honest" politicians have dirty things going on. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 962 Registered: 4-2006 |
Madden 11- Thanks for proving my point. Your analysis of national politics is so spot on that you favor politicians and positions that will put the next democratic candidate for President in the same position of John Kerry: loser. Watch Hilliary and learn something. People don't get into national office by being Gandhi, and I assume you're still not in college taking poly sci courses. I have never read the National Review, but I read Kos and laugh my a#% off at the number of people who are willing to follow this bizarro over the cliff. Leftie Lemmings. Incredible. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2226 Registered: 8-2003 |
Ned Lamont is a mainstream CT Democrat. He, like 2/3 of Americans, wants to get the U.S. out of Iraq. He's a millionaire from Greenwich, hardly some radical. If you think he's an extremist you might want to disengage yourself from the RNC talking points and read up on what Ned Lamont really represents. He's no more radical than Barack Obama, Frank Lautenberg, or any of a dozen other blue-state Democrats. And I have "watched Hillary and learned something." I've learned if Ned Lamont wins the Democratic primary in CT, she has pledged to support him, and not Lieberman. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1252 Registered: 2-2004 |
Is it early 2004 all over again? Didn't the look on Rather's face make it clear enough or do you Dems need yet another nationally televised whipping? | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2843 Registered: 6-2002 |
As the poet once said, you don’t have to be a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing. Rather odd thing for a "Conservative" columnist to write. Poet? The line is from an SDS leaflet re-working a Dylan lyric. Dylan wrote "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows". An SDS activist wrote "You don't have to be a weatherman to know which way the wind blows." And thus was born the ultra-left violent Weatherman Faction of SDS. (Just a little history lesson for you kids)} | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2844 Registered: 6-2002 |
Now that I've given you all a brief history lesson I will give you a brief current events lesson. I've read a couple of newspaper articles and seen a couple of TV news pieces on the Connecticut race. That's not much but it seems most of you haven't even done that. The consensus of knowledgeable opinion is that Lieberman will win the Primary but that if he doesn't he is an extremely strong favorite to win the General Election as an Independent. Voter turnout in a Summer Primary is very low. That is why Lieberman is hedging his bet by filing as an Independent. The GOP Party and candidate are very weak and Lieberman has strong support among Independents and Republicans as well as Democrats. As Nancy pointed out Lieberman intends to remain a Democrat whether he wins the Primary or whether he wins the General as an Independent. As for his voting record, he votes with the Dems two-thirds to three-quarters of the time and gets very low ratings, in some cases zero from "Conservative" groups. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 977 Registered: 12-2003 |
Thanks for proving my point. On what planet have I proved your point? You leap to the erroneous conclusion that I'm an ideological purist, I correct your faulty assumption, you claim your point is proven. No wonder you're a Bush supporter...you make roughly as much sense as he does. Your analysis of national politics is so spot on that you favor politicians and positions that will put the next democratic candidate for President in the same position of John Kerry: loser. Watch Hilliary and learn something. OK, time to wake up. The president's approval ratings are stuck in the 30s--the 30s!--and you think opposing his policies is an electoral loser? Time to ditch the script from 2001...the times, they are a changin'. You are the new minority...enjoy it! People don't get into national office by being Gandhi, and I assume you're still not in college taking poly sci courses. OK, you're just going completely off the rails here. You plainly just want to have an argument with your preconceived notion of what a "leftie lemming" is (read: anyone who opposes the President). When I respond differently, you just keep arguing the same way. It's evidence of limited intelligence and insight. I have some shocking news for you...if opposing the war in Iraq makes you Gandhi, you're living in a country that is better than 60% Gandhis. Gee, what are we going to do with all this extra food? If you expect further discussion with me, I encourage you to make an actual point, if you're able...don't just regurgitate what you read in the blogs. It's boring. If you want to continue with the same old tired script despite evidence to the contrary, of course you're welcome to...but you don't need me for that. | ||
| Foj Citizen Username: Foger Post Number: 1647 Registered: 9-2004 |
Dr.: Hillary might be parroting the DNC, the DNC has issued a statement that it will support the winner of the CT. Primary. Its a stretch, but Lamont has momentum, if he wins in August, the DNC will back Lamont bigtime. It is quite clear from where I am standing, that Howard Dean wants to make an example of Lieberman. Not too long ago Lamont was not considered able to garner enough votes at the DEM state convention to earn a place on the ballot. Lamont needed 15% @ the Convention, he got 30%. That was big. Billy Jack, Stratford in the house... I think I remember Lowell saying something like.. "Republicans dont steal, Republicans dont cheat" during the Watergate hearings. & I pretty much agree with your comments on Shays. I would throw Olympia Snow, and the Senator from Rhode Island, Lincoln Chaffee in the same catagory. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2846 Registered: 6-2002 |
FvF: Is there a Democrat who you would support for President in 2008? Please suggest one or more names. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 968 Registered: 4-2006 |
anon- I would actually vote for Lieberman. Madden 11- You need to calmn down and stay away from reading Kos for a couple of days. You are getting all emotional, just like him. What makes you think I am a Bush supporter? Just because I think you can't "cut and run" from Iraq at this point? | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 38 Registered: 5-2006 |
http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/WilliamFBuckley/2006/07/11/debating_over_a_co rpse?page=full&comments=true | ||
| Billy Jack Citizen Username: Kendalbill Post Number: 196 Registered: 6-2002 |
Foj: Good to see another nutmegger that made the choice to come to NJ. And don't get me wrong, Weicker brought his own baggage- but his behavior in the Watergate hearings showed independence and integrity and helped bring down Nixon. If we had the mix of Republicans in the senate we had in 1970, we probably wouldn't be in Iraq and Bush wouldn't be as enabled. And I use the word enabled purposely. And back to CT. I think Lieberman is going to persevere, and I think the message he will get from the experience will change him. And I don't think the Iraq decision is his only bad decision. But as I said, I'd probably hold my nose and vote for the guy in the primary. And anon: I think there are a lot of Dems that could rise to the top. When it is early it is easy to poke halls in a candidate, but I can see some very good, competent candidates emerge. I want to know more about Mark Warner, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden. I don't buy into the Hillary thing, but mostly because everyone says shes a done deal. And in the wings we have two candidates that have won the presidency before: Gore and Kerry. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 978 Registered: 12-2003 |
You need to calmn down and stay away from reading Kos for a couple of days. You are getting all emotional, just like him. Translation: "I am completely out of my depth, and unable to debate this topic on the merits." Fair enough...sorry I made your brain hurt. What makes you think I am a Bush supporter? Just because I think you can't "cut and run" from Iraq at this point? You may not support Bush, but you've certainly got the right wing talking points down pat. What are you feelings on General "Cut and Run" Casey? He hates America, right? And regardless of whether or not you like Joe Lieberman, you'd have to be truly deranged to think he'd make a good President. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 979 Registered: 12-2003 |
Billy Jack-- Unfortunately, I think you're right. Lieberman will almost definitely win the primary, but have no illusions that he'll take that as a sign to change course. If anything, he'll become more strident, more radical...because he'll see his re-election as a confirmation that he's on the right track. Much the way Bush took a loss of the popular vote to be a mandate for extremism, so too will Lieberman stick to his guns and continue to weaken the Democratic party. I think a time will come (sooner rather than later) when out-of-touch incumbents like Lieberman will get tossed out of their seats...but I'm not sure we're at that time yet. If this primary were taking place a year from now, Joe would be toast. | ||
| Billy Jack Citizen Username: Kendalbill Post Number: 197 Registered: 6-2002 |
Madden 11: Lieberman is a lot of things, and as I said before, I don't like his politics, but radical? You might be right about Bush, but I don't see Lieberman that way at all. In fact (and this is debatable, sure) I bet he is a nice guy. I think I agree with him on most things (unlike Bush). If there was no war or terrorist threat, I bet most people wouldn't notice his primary fight or oppose him in any real way. Unfortunately, Lieberman is very in touch with a large group of Americans who still believe Bush's statements on Iraq and Bin Laden. He is out of touch with Dems in Connecticut and the wider population of blog driven pundits. But I think his views represent a large share of Americans. Weird irony: if he ran as VP now, would Gore be President? (Assuming Gore would chose him now.) I mean so decisively that Florida couldn't be stolen? Wouldn't he innoculate Gore from attempts to make him a liberal bomb thrower? As for the day we throw the rascals out- couldn't happen soon enough. As long as I get to pick the rascals...} | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 980 Registered: 12-2003 |
Lieberman is a lot of things, and as I said before, I don't like his politics, but radical? [...] He is out of touch with Dems in Connecticut That's all I really meant...he's radical relative to his constituency. If he was a Republican (or even a Democratic) senator from a solidly red state, he wouldn't be that radical at all. Wrong, but not radical. But I think his views represent a large share of Americans. This, I have to disagree with. The war being the biggest example, Social Security being another, and trust in George W. Bush being a third. It has been the narrative drumbeat for so long that Bush is a popular and trusted President...but that's just not the case, nor has it been for a while. If you look at the current polling, Bush, Lieberman, and friends are all officially out of the mainstream. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 973 Registered: 4-2006 |
Billy Jack- You make good points,but never argue with the lemmings. Madden 11- Presidential race bumpersticker on your car for 2008? " Hugo Chavez. You Know That He's Right."  | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 983 Registered: 12-2003 |
FvF-- Sadly, it seems you know as much about humor as you do about politics. Here's a tip...using one of these: doesn't actually make something funny. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5617 Registered: 10-1999  |
 I was thinking the same thing, Mr. Madden One One ... | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 984 Registered: 4-2006 |
Madden 11- But you are. But I guess it's unintentional. Nohero- being the peanut gallery tonight? Oh, sorry Madden 11 " The Humor King" might take offense. PS- Lieberman will get re-elected and Clinton will seek his endorsement for President. What will you do then? A write-in vote for Nader? | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 984 Registered: 12-2003 |
Why would that offend me? Humor tip #2...jokes should have some kind of basis in logic. Three smilies this time, though...and a blue one, no less! Sorry, but that doesn't count as expanding your repetoire. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 991 Registered: 4-2006 |
Madden 11- Thank you for taking the time out to review my post for it's humor content, which democratic comedy club do you own? No doubt your talking points e-mails from Howie Dean and Nancy are a bit light tonight. Perhaps you might recall that the last democratic President, Clinton, formed a conservative democratic organization because he had the brains to realize the party was going nowhere in terms of national elections with it's left wing politics. He was, a result, successful. Will dems be successful in electing a President that hews to your views? Nope. You are helping the republicans stay in power. Lieberman, much as you detest him, reflects the views of more Americans than you do. But go ahead, destroy your party with a nonsensical Iraq litmus test. | ||
| Madden 11 Citizen Username: Madden_11 Post Number: 985 Registered: 12-2003 |
You forgot the smilies! Still pretty funny, though. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2238 Registered: 8-2003 |
I love when people talk smack even when they don't have the facts on their side. Most Americans do not agree with Joe Lieberman. They want out of Iraq: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-06-26-poll-results_x.htm It remains stunning to me that the politicians in Washington and the Beltway pundits keep insisting Americans don't want a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq, when every poll shows the exact opposite. It's like the MSM and the politicians are living on some other planet or alternate reality. And they try to tell us (the people) that what we know to be true is invalid. |
