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Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1651
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 14, 2006 - 11:42 pm: | 
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Republicans predict victory despite polls
By Thomas Ferraro
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A top Republican lawmaker brushed off bad poll numbers on Wednesday and said his party would surprise analysts and Democrats by strengthening its grip on the U.S. House of Representatives in November elections.
"We have a good story to tell," House Speaker Dennis Hastert of Illinois told reporters as he emerged from a closed-door meeting with fellow Republicans, many of whom are worried about their own chances for political survival.
Hastert's prediction of election victory heartened many Republicans, caught others off guard and drew some ridicule.
"Either he is out of touch or has contempt for his audience," said Stu Rothenberg of the nonpartisan Rothenberg Political Report that tracks congressional races.
(snip/...)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060712/pl_nm/congress_dc |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1280
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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He is not out of touch. He just attended the same conference call with Diebold that I did. And you think Ohio was bad! |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5273
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:56 am: |
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That's kind of what I thought, but I was afraid if I said so you'd call me a conspiracy theorist! |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3697
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:26 pm: |
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The conflict in Lebanon should help the Republicans, making it seem "unpatriotic" to criticize the current administration as we go into the elections. I wonder how coordinated it all was. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1281
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:10 pm: |
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tom,
I'm beginning to like conspiracies. The keep this board interesting, and this has been one boring summer so far. I'm hoping DHS puts us at level Aqua so August will be a little more interesting. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3702
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 2:22 pm: |
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More fecal matter from southerner. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5274
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
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It's interesting that the right is so keen on painting whatever happens in the next few elections as the paranoid ramblings of conspiracy theorists.
After all, nothing has happened, yet. You see, an event cannot be demonstratively false when it's still in the future. And there is nothing fantastical, or even unusual, about stolen or fraudulent elections in this world; it happens all the time. What's more, there exists the means, the motive, and maybe even the stated intent, to manipulate the results.
If the liberals were saying, "the aliens from the Andromeda Galaxy will invade and through their telepathic powers change the results to elect one of their own," a conservative might rightly point out that a) there has never been an alien from the Andromeda Galaxy that we know of; b) there's no such thing as telepathic powers; and c) they're not on the ballot. That would qualify as a wacky conspiracy theory.
However, we're saying that Republican interests that control the machinery that tabulates the votes are poised to rig the results in favor of Republican candidates. There are Republican interests who manufacture and program the voting machines in total secrecy; elections have often been stolen by rigging the tabulation; and of course, Republicans are on the ballot.
This isn't a conspiracy theory: it's a serious warning about a potential crime. Conservatives running around saying "conspiracy theory! conspiracy theory!" about an election that hasn't happened might as well be saying, "but the aliens from Andromeda don't have telepathic powers!" about an invasion that hasn't happened.
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Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1285
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 6:57 pm: |
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tom,
I agree. You guys controlled the apparatus for decades. And guess what? You won for decades, surprise, surprise, surprise. Now that the shoe is on the other foot you want fairness. Like I said before, I feel your liberal pain, but I don't care. Us Republicans will not go back to where we were during the Dems fat and happy days under guys like O'Neill. We've been paranoid for the last 50 years, now it's your turn. I'd rather both parties be paranoid and I thought it was fantastic how each party had party observers at each polling station in 2004. Most countries have been doing this for years and I think it is great. No longer will you Dems be able to patently cheat. And the review of the voter rolls will only hurt the Dems due to their use of local cemetary's. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5278
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 7:02 pm: |
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Don't think calling Democrats cheaters is somehow going to vaccinate you against accusations of fraud. It's the Rovian trick again of attacking your opponent with your own weakness. I'm not buying it. The cheating isn't going to happen at the polling station, it's going to happen in the software and back at the home office. It's a whole different kind of ball game. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1288
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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tom,
I never called the Democrats cheaters. I simply said they were great at controlling the apparatus, like we are now. Cheating is in the eye of the beholder. I'm just glad after freaking decades of not catching on, we finally did. And, I don't want to be vaccinated. I have no problem with the Republicans being accused of fraud. Sticks and stones, remember. I am results driven and I don't really care about my opponents feelings. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5281
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:12 pm: |
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There's this new meme out there, which has shown up a few times on this board, about Democratic cheating in 2000. It's of a pattern with previous examples of the GOP attack style. In 2000, Bush, who never met a fact he couldn't mangle, attacking Gore on minor errors in statements; in 2004, war-coward Bush attacking the record of war-hero Kerry. Attacking an opponent with your own weaknesses. By accusing the Dems of fraud now, they hope to make the electorate tired of hearing about fraud, so that when they do it no one will believe it. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5754
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:16 pm: |
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Democrats don't cheat. Everyone knows it. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5283
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 10:39 pm: |
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That's not the point, but I think you know that. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 9:58 am: |
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tom,
You are just frustrated that we aren't going to roll over for you and are actually fighting back. I've seen so much mud slung towards us since 2000 that it's that time of year again to start slinging back. There is enough cheating taking place for all of us. In my opinion the Democrats are a bunch of cheaters who couldn't pull it off, a bunch of lazy, verbose windbags who couldn't back up their words, and a fringe minority that have to run to conservative positions to be elected. Don't worry tom, the rhetoric will die down after the election. Then we can resume the drumbeat of whining, crying, sore loser liberals and I can resume laughing at you for another year and a half then we can start the cycle all over again. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5285
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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NB: Democrats are a majority. Republicans have gotten better turnout, but you're still a minority. Over the last three election cycles for US Senate (ie, every seat) more votes were cast for Democratic candidates than for Republicans. It's a statistical fluke that you guys have the majority there.
If the vicious attacks of the '90s on the Clinton administration, as well as the disgraceful tactics of the races so far this decade (eg, Max Cleland as a pawn of bin Laden and Hussein) are "rolling over," actually fighting back might be indictable. So I'm not exactly frustrated that you're actually fighting back, because you've been fighting, and fighting dirty, all along.
Now you're trying to excuse cheating. There's that meme again -- combined with the old Nixon-era excuse that everybody does it, so it's no big deal. But just a couple days ago you were saying that those suspecting cheating were conspiracy theorists; now you're saying it's commonplace. Which is it?
But I disagree with your basic premise that winning proves everything and the winner should be allowed to govern. And considering the nonstop running attacks aimed at hampering the Clinton presidency from day one that your GOP colleagues staged, they disagree as well. Are you actually trying to ease off on criticism of the Republican-controlled government with promises that if we win you'll let us govern without interference?
Public opinion must inform the ongoing actions of a government. It's not intended that voters only get a thumbs-up/thumbs-down option once every four years. |
Southerner
Citizen
Username: Southerner
Post Number: 1298
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:21 pm: |
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tom,
I believe winning is important because I believe the will of the people is the most important thing we have. And this will is determined through elections. We probably agree on this. However, I completely disagree with your last statement -
"Public opinion must inform the ongoing actions of a government. It's not intended that voters only get a thumbs-up/thumbs-down option once every four years."
I do not want a government run by opinion polls or consensus. I can't even get my extended family to agree on yearly celebrations let alone expect this bureuacratic government to reach one.
As for the interference comment, I've said dozens of times, if the Democrats win then they should be allowed to govern free from attacks and govern with the philosophy which the will of the people elected. I know this will never happen because, like the left, we have folks within our neo-con movement who won't adhere to election results and will drum beat against Democrats from the beginning. I agree with you about Clinton. They went after him and it wasn't right. However, he created a lot of his own mess. He could have used Rove.
Let me make this clear. I will not do this. I believe the will of the people through elections is sacrosanct in our nation. If the people elect die hard liberals then I expect our government to be die hard liberal. If the people elect communists then I expect our government to be communist. I accept elections results. I may disagree with the results, but who am I to stand in the way of the will of the people. Liberals don't believe they are ever wrong so this last statement is incomprehensible to them.
The bottom line with me is I believe that after elections, no matter who wins we should move together to continued greatness. However, the Democrats have set the bar for obstruction and bellyaching. While I won't take part if my side loses, I fully expect my fellow neo-cons to not only repeat the bellyaching of the last 12 years but to take it to another level. I regret this, but we all know this is coming regardless of who wins or loses.
Now for your majority/minority comment, I guess we are simply unable to agree on the definitions. I look at politics using the framework we have had since our nations founding and not on what I think it should be. You obviously believe we should go by a straight majority vote. I might not disagree. However, the system we have doesn't reward the millions of extra Democratic votes a Senator gets in New York or California by giving those unneeded votes to a Democratic candidate in Tennessee. When I say majority, I look at strictly the numbers of Senators and Representatives representing each party. Therefore, we are the majority. The problem I see the Democrats have is that they spend so much time preaching to the choir that they get huge victories in the deep blue states and then lose the squeakers. We'll see if Foj's and Dean's 50 state plan pays off but I doubt it.
As for the actual pure numbers game nationwide of majority/minority, it's hard to say. We are split so evenly. I don't mind saying that perhaps the Dems have the majority going by those terms. That doesn't hinder me in the least. What it tells me is that they are unorganized to use this to their benefit, and they should be looking at changing the system. Either way, we control the committees in both chambers and thus set the tone which is what I'm really after. |
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