| Author | Message | ||
     Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2750 Registered: 5-2001 |
dave23, do you really think you'll get a rational answer from tulip? I'm sure it will be something like Israel started it, Israel should be the better person/nation. tulip has already shown her true colors. She thinks Israel should negotiate itself into the sea. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3706 Registered: 3-2004  |
joel: Your post would be old news if you had listened to the Security Council. Britain joined all other nations, except Bush, in finding Israeli behavior "disproportionate." They used the word. All countries used the word. Bush and Israel are out of touch. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 705 Registered: 1-2006 |
Here are some facts about the U.N., from Christianactionforisrael.com U.N.’S VOTING HISTORY AGAINST ISRAEL Security Council: 175 total resolutions –– 74 neutral; 4 against perceived interests of Arab state or entity, 97 against Israel. General Assembly: Cumulative number of votes cast with or for Israel: 7,938 - Against Israel: 55,642. Since it first convened in 1946, at least one Arab state sat on the 9 country Security Council in 39 of its first 43 years. Israel never sat on the Security Council. [In June 2002 Syria who is still listed on the U.S. State Department as a Terrorist State, was voted in as Head of the Security Council.] The Security Council "condemned", "censured", "deplored", "strongly deplored", etc. Israel 49 times; the Arabs: Zero. The Security Council passed 131 Resolutions: 43 or 33% were neutral; 88 criticized or opposed or judged against Israel. Zero critical of Arab state, body or the PLO (founded by the Arab League in 1964). The General Assembly passed 429 Resolutions against Israel’’s desires (62%); only 56 against Arab desires (8%). the General Assembly "condemned", "vigorously condemned", "strongly condemned", "deplored", "strongly deplored", censured"", "denounced" Israel 321 times –– the Arabs Zero condemnations. (1) This record demonstrates the extreme bias of this body of nations and their unremitting efforts to assist the Arab nations in eliminating Israel. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 706 Registered: 1-2006 |
it is: .org NOT .com | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3707 Registered: 3-2004 |
The General Assembly passed 429 Resolutions against Israel’’s desires (62%); only 56 against Arab desires (8%). the General Assembly "condemned", "vigorously condemned", "strongly condemned", "deplored", "strongly deplored", censured"", "denounced" Israel 321 times –– the Arabs Zero condemnations. (1) This record demonstrates the extreme bias of this body of nations and their unremitting efforts to assist the Arab nations in eliminating Israel. Could it be because Israel is the bully? MOLers already affirmed that Israel could take on all comers and win, militarily. So whom should we watch? The little guys? I think not. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2751 Registered: 5-2001 |
Hmmmmm. Israel the bully. Why didn't I think of that. Every surrounding country of hers committed to eliminate her as a nation. The long history of anti-semitism. The fact that Israel has always taken measured steps. The fact that all of our prayers use the word Shalom. Oh yes. Israel is the bully. That's the rational reasoning I love to hear from tulip, the anti-zionist but lover of Israel, unless you have money and are from Brooklyn. Joel, I do hope you continue to present your research on this board but know that you will never convince some deranged minds. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 707 Registered: 1-2006 |
Sure. That's it. Many regret it exists at all. Perhaps you? jd | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3708 Registered: 3-2004 |
Right now, I think the whole notion of a homeland for the Jewish people is failing. Israel is abusing its land, occupying land, and is not welcome. After fifty years of not being welcome, maybe they should just call it a nice experiment that didn't work. Sorry, it was a nice adventure, but I think another Exodus is in the offing. At least in previous ones, Jews did not kill babies even though that was the myth that flamed anti-semitism. Now it's no myth. What do you say to the neo-Nazis who claim Jews kill babies? All they have to do is look at the last four days. Israel is ruining itself, and not following Jewish teachings, at all. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 708 Registered: 1-2006 |
Thar she blows! jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 709 Registered: 1-2006 |
Wendy: Her hatred runs deep. Get that woman a burkha. jd | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3709 Registered: 3-2004 |
It's a colonial occupation. It should get the message and get out. Israel fought and bombed the King David Hotel to claim land it said the Bible gave them. At that time, their panic and need for a homeland was understandable. Now, Jewish culture is basically accepted, or tolerated, just about everywhere, so why not move on? Stop treating the Arab people the way Jews did not like to be treated. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2752 Registered: 5-2001 |
And you of course know all about Jewish teachings. Give me a fcin break and stop this awful posting. Please. You have totally marginalized yourself at least in this community and hopefully elsewhere. God help the leaders of the Democratic Party if they have any of these thoughts. Tulip's 3:53 post (I have saved it in case even she realizes its outrageousness and tries once again to edit herself) more than anything finally made me understand why some Democrats I know could not in good conscience support Kerry. I of course thought and think they were wrong but the Dutch flower's post is making me very troubled about the state of progressive and liberal thought in the US. Perhaps I'm wrong and although I know there was no thought just hateful, murderous speech by the Dutch flower, we all know that empty words often pass for thoughtful speech and irrational hate often causes genocide. | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2753 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is why one should not listen to tulip. Earlier in this discussion she said:
Now look at where she's at. It would be laughable if it weren't scary and hateful. She really is blinded by her hate of Jews. Yes Jews; not just Israelis. Since we all know all Israelis can just go home to Brooklyn, right tulip. Now please, go join the PLO and tell them about us crazy people here who want to eat Lebanese children. Start your own blood libel. Go ahead. You know you believe it. Sheesh and double sheesh. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3710 Registered: 3-2004 |
Oy, I am marginal in your community!! What will I do!!! I hate the things that Israel is doing now. They are hateful. Israel is lying about its objectives. They say they want to avenge the kidnapping of three soldiers, and to rescue them, a la "Saving Private Ryan." Boloney!!!! They want to bomb the hell out of Lebanon because of old grudges. What has Lebanon done to them recently? Israel sided with Bush in demanding democracy in the Middle East. They were both embarrassed by the fact that Hezbollah's power was partly a result of an election. So, behave yourself, Wendy, and Israel. Stop bombing innocent people. Yes, I hate that, and I am the first to say it. Come get me. Do what you want to me. Say what you want. I hate that stupid behavior. It's selfish, whiney, paranoid and dangerous. Israel is once again destabilizing the planet. Enough, already. No, I am not the first to say it. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12157 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually Sbenois for a young fighter pilot there is nothing that is more fun than blowing things up. This is especially true when the enemy doesn't have the capability of fighting back. I admit, however, that those are characteristics of fighter pilots regardless of nationality. I am very worried about the Americans in Beirut. It is only a matter of time before Hezbollah decides to move into the University and then there will be American casualties, which is why we had the capability of putting a significant force in the area to evacuate them before this happens and to give Israel reason to think twice before attacking them. Collateral casualties, yes. But American collateral casualties and we have over 20,000 citizens in that country. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 56 Registered: 5-2006  |
I'm speechless. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 57 Registered: 5-2006 |
Tulip - when your arguments begin to resemble those of Pat Buchanan you need to take a deep breath. May I suggest the "Hedges Block the Sidewalk" thread? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3711 Registered: 3-2004 |
I believe that Israel is comnitting war crimes. If Norway or France, or as you know, if the US were bombing innocent people, I would say the same thing. (Pardon my poor parsing.) | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 94 Registered: 4-2006  |
>>What has Lebanon done to them recently? We have a new record for short memory. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3712 Registered: 3-2004 |
Tell me. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10118 Registered: 4-1997  |
Israel is now blowing up suburbs in Lebanon. | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 95 Registered: 4-2006 |
Let's see. A militia that is part of the Lebanese government and operating with the government's acquiescence (in contravention of a UN Security Council resolution) attacked Israel, killed several soldiers and kidnapped two others. Then they fired rockets at Israeli civilian areas, killing several civilians. I know all these dead and kidnapped people are Israelis so they don't really matter, but that's what I was talking about. You might have read about these incidents in the paper. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10119 Registered: 4-1997 |
Not sure if that was for me, but yes I'm aware of how it started. Just pointing out the latest development. I'm pretty stunned by the stupidity of both sides willingness to murder children. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3713 Registered: 3-2004 |
This militia you are talking about, Hezbollah, is part of a faction elected in an election. You know, voting? They weren't appointed by the Prime Minister of Lebanon. The kidnapping was not known by the Prime Minister of Lebanon. He knew nothing about it. Have you heard? Have you also been aware of the communications of several former ambassadors, and Terry Waite, former hostage, that they disagree with this bombing strategy. Tell me, Larry, do you think you can kill all Arabs and get cooperation that way? What's your goal? What's the objective? Do you want to take out all military installations and capacity? If so, then why are you bombing the suburbs? Why are you accepting collateral damage of infants and children? Do you think that's right? Don't be so freaking condescending, bud. You are on the wrong side of this one. Get off it, Larry. Get off the bombs. | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 96 Registered: 4-2006 |
The last note was for Tulip, fat lot of good it will do. Dave, do you really think the Israelis are trying to kill kids? If the Israelis wanted to kill as many Lebanese as they could there would be a whole lot more of them dead. The reason they haven't put land troops in (against Tulip's advice) is because it would mean a lot more dead civilians. They could stop the rockets pretty quickly with a land invasion. That's why they invaded in 82. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 58 Registered: 5-2006 |
I draw a distinction between the professional military force of a liberal democratic nation accidentally killing civilians in the course of targeting an enemy that hides among civilians and terrorists that deliberately target civilians. To equate these to two things is moral relativism at its worst. I think the difference is most evident by the fact that Israelis are as horrified as we are at the deaths of Arab children while their enemies celebrate the death of Jewish ones. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3667 Registered: 5-2001  |
The IDF said it was making "every effort" to avoid civilian casualties, adding: "Responsibility for endangering civilian population rests on the Hezbollah terror organization, which operates and launches missiles at Israel from populated civilian areas." More than 75 rockets were fired at Israeli towns on Saturday, the IDF said. One barrage struck Nahariya, a northwestern town near the Lebanese border. There were no immediate reports of injuries. From CNN>> No mention of rockets fired into Israeli suburbs, Dave?? | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15324 Registered: 10-2001  |
If the Israelis had loaded their missiles with Matzoh Charlotte, I'll bet those soldiers would have been freed within seconds of the first strike. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10120 Registered: 4-1997 |
 someone has to stop firing, preferably both sides | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10121 Registered: 4-1997 |
 does it matter to anyone reading where he is or what nationality he is? | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 97 Registered: 4-2006 |
Honestly Dave, do you know what is in the area of that explosion? What if it's Hezbolla headquarters? As for the kid, I feel sorry for him just as I feel sorry for the Israeli kids hiding from the rockets being fired at them. But you know who started this fight. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3714 Registered: 3-2004 |
The fact is, Israel now knows they are murdering families as these families try to escape, and they continue. They have decided that this kind of collateral damage is acceptable. How can they claim to be civilized? I think this is ridiculous, but it will ultimately be Israel who will suffer for this deranged behavior. Israel's expectations of Hezbollah disarming themselves, or Lebanon being able to force them to, is absurd. That's a condition for cease-fire. So I guess there will be no cease-fire. So Israel has to be ready for a long haul. Obviously, Lebanon is going to be to Israel as Iraq has been to the US. Israel has not even learned from the most recent experience of the US. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3715 Registered: 3-2004 |
Just wait until an American student or tourist becomes a victim of collateral damage of an Israeli bomb. | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 98 Registered: 4-2006 |
Hamas and the PLO have killed plenty of Americans. Does that bother you? I'm curious, you call the Israelis uncivilized for killing children. Are the Palestinians uncivilized for killing Israeli children, and with clear deliberation? Do you just not expect the Palestinians to be civilized or do you think it's civilized to kill Jews? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3716 Registered: 3-2004 |
What Israel is trying to do here is force a confrontation between the US and Iran. It's so obviously an attempt to manipulate Bush into a military stance toward Iran. Very bad, very nuclear, very dangerous. Larry, as a poster on MOL by the name of Llama said, "War is the absence of intelligent thought." (Words to that effect.) No, I don't think killing Jews is civilized. I don't think Jews killing is civilized, either. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1284 Registered: 2-2004 |
tulip, Now you sound like me!! Just wait until a float at the annual catfish/coon dog festival becomes vandalized!! You'll be begging for more DHS dollars to Alabama! | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15326 Registered: 10-2001 |
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| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3717 Registered: 3-2004 |
So you're going to blame Hezbollah when an Israeli bomb kills an American? ...waiting for a response...simple question... | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3668 Registered: 5-2001 |
JUST IN THE LAST TEN YEARS! February 25, 1996, Jerusalem, Israel. A suicide bomber blew up a commuter bus in Jerusalem, killing 26, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring 80 others, among them another three U.S. citizens. Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing. March 4, 1996, Tel Aviv, Israel. A suicide bomber detonated an explosive device outside the Dizengoff Center,David Boim Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall, killing 20 March 4, 1996 Tel Aviv Bombing persons and injuring 75 others, including two U.S. citizens. Both Hamas and the Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for the bombing. May 13, 1996, Beit-El, West Bank. Arab gunmen opened fire on a hitchhiking stand near Beit El, wounding three Israelis and killing David Boim (Right Photo), 17, an American- Israeli from New York. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, although either the Islamic Jihad or Hamas are suspected. May 13, 1996: David Boim, age 17, an American-Israeli from New York, killed in a drive-by shooting by Palestinian terrorists near Beit El. JUngar Familyune 9, 1996, Zekharya, West Bank. Yaron Ungar, an American-Israeli, and his Israeli wife were killed in a drive-by shooting near their West Bank home. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine is suspected. July 30, 1997, Jerusalem, Israel. Two bombs detonated in Jerusalem's Mahane Yehuda market, killing 15 persons, including a U.S. citizen and wounding 168 others, among them two U.S. citizens. The Izz-el-Din al-Qassam Brigades, Hamas' military wing, claimed responsibility for the attack. September 4, 1997: Yael Botwin, age 14, an American-Israeli from the Los Angeles suburb of Claremont killed in a Hamas suicide bombing attack in downtown Jerusalem. April 19, 1998, Maon, Israel. Dov Driben, a 28-year-old American-Israeli farmer was killed by terrorists near the West Bank town of Maon. One of his assailants, Issa Debavseh, a member of Fatah Tanzim, was killed on November 7, 2001, by the IDF after being on their wanted list for the murder. Hillel LiebermanOctober 8, 2000, Nablus, West Bank. The bullet-ridden body of Hillel Lieberman, a U.S. citizen living in the Jewish settlement of Elon Moreh, was found at the entrance to the West Bank town of Nablus. Lieberman had headed there after hearing that Palestinians had desecrated the religious site, Joseph's Tomb. No organization claimed responsibility for the murder.U.S.S. Cole October 30, 2000, Jerusalem, Israel. Gunmen killed Eish Kodesh Gilmor, a 25-year-old American-Israeli on duty as a security guard at the National Insurance Institute in Jerusalem. The "Martyrs of the Al-Aqsa Intifada," a group linked to Fatah, claimed responsibility for the attack. Gilmor's family filed a suit in the U.S. District Court in Washington against the Palestinian Authority, the PLO, Chairman Yasser Arafat and members of Kobi Mandell Force 17, as being responsible for the attack.Kobi Mandell Funeral May 9, 2001, Tekoa, West Bank. Kobi Mandell, 14, an American-Israeli, was found stoned to death along with a friend in a cave near the Jewish settlement of Tekoa. Two organizations, the Islamic Jihad and Hizballah, claimed responsibility for the attack. May 29, 2001, Gush Etzion, West Bank. The Fatah Tanzim claimed responsibility for a drive-by shooting of six in the West Bank that killed two American-Israeli citizens, Samuel Berg, and his mother, Sarah Blaustein. August 9, 2001, Jerusalem, Israel. A suicide bombing at Sbarro's, a pizzeria situated in one of the busiest areas of downtown Jerusalem, killed 15 people, including a 31-year-old tourist from New Jersey, Shoshana Greenbaum and wounded more than 90. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack. September 11, 2001, New York, Washington D.C., and Pennsylvania, United States. During a carefully coordinated attack, 19 Islamist extremists hijacked four U.S. jetliners and forced them to crash into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. In all, 266 people perished in the four planes, and more than 3,000 people were killed on the ground. U.S. investigators determined on the basis of extensive evidence that Usama bin Ladin's al-Qaida group was responsible for the attack. The first plane, American Airlines Flight 11 en route from Boston to Los Angeles, crashed into the World Trade Center's north tower at 8:48 a.m. Eighteen minutes later, United Airlines Flight 175, also headed from Boston to Los Angeles, smashed into the World Trade Center's south tower. At 9:40 a.m. a third airplane, an American Airlines Boeing 757 that left Washington's Dulles International Airport for Los Angeles, crashed into the western part of the Pentagon where 24,000 people worked. The fourth plane, a United Airlines Flight 93 flying from Newark to San Francisco, crashed near Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, most likely before it could hit its target. Hundreds of firefighters, police officers and other rescue workers who arrived in the site after the first plane crash Avraham Boaz were killed or injured. January 15, 2002, Bethlehem, West Bank. Avraham Boaz, 71, a dual Israeli-American citizen, was kidnapped at a Palestinian Authority (PA) security checkpoint in Beit Jala and murdered. Mark SokolowJanuary 27, 2002, Jerusalem, Israel. A Palestinian woman triggered a massive explosion in downtown Jerusalem killing one elderly Israeli and injuring more than 150, including American Mark Sokolow, his wife, and 16 and 12-year-old daughters. Sokolow had earlier survived the September 11 attack on the World Trade Center, escaping from his law office on the 38th floor of the South Tower before it collapsed. July 31, 2002, Jerusalem, Israel. Seven people including four Americans, Marla Bennett (24) of Marla Bennett David Gritz Benjamin Blutstein Janis Ruth CoulterSan Diego, California, David Gritz (24) of Peru, Massachusetts, Benjamin Blutstein (25) of Susquehanna Township, Pennsylvania and Janis Ruth Coulter (36) from New York were murdered when a remote-controlled bomb detonated in the Frank Sinatra Cafeteria on Jerusalem's Hebrew University Mt. Scopus campus. Eighty-six others were injured. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack. October 17, 2003, Gaza Strip, Israel, Three Americans were killed and another wounded on October 15, 2003 when an explosion tore through a van that was part of a diplomatic convoy traveling through the Gaza Strip. The killed and injured Americans were part of a security force for the diplomatic officials. The State Department identified the slain Americans as John Branchizio (36) Mark T. Parson (31) and John Martin Linde Jr. (30) all employees of DynCorp, a Virginia-based security firm. Footnote: After so many years of Arab Palestinian terrorism against its property and citizens, it is inexplicable that the United States still attempts to view the Arab-Israeli Conflict in an "even-handed" way! Is it because America thinks she can "buy off" or appease these terrorists? Could British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain appease Hitler and avert a world war when he sold out Czechoslovakia? Americans and what's left of the "civilized" world has a real battle on their hands. The sooner they recognize these cold-blooded, barbaric thugs for what they are and unite in a common front against them, the better chance the world will be spared more vicious attacks. A very good start would be to back Israel who is right at the front lines of the war pitting Good against Evil. Jews in Israel and pre-State "Palestine" have been attacked and murdered for over 120 years by Arabs. Even a so-called "peace" agreement didn't put a stop to Jewish deaths! | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15327 Registered: 10-2001 |
Monday is going to be one heck of a day in the markets. |
