| Author | Message | ||
     tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3718 Registered: 3-2004  |
Library Lady: Are you listing all these events as an explanation of the bombing of Lebanon? Are you saying the bombing is to avenge these events? Are you saying that these events justify an equal and opposite reaction and that many wrongs justify another one? | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 2064 Registered: 5-2001 |
Larry -
Why do you assume the terrified child is Palistinian?
What if it's not Hezbolla headquarters? It looks like it's a classroom Larry. I feel more than just "sorry" for "the kid" - whatever his nationality is. I feel horrified that "kids" are being murdered on both sides of the conflict right now as I type these words. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 59 Registered: 5-2006  |
Notwithstanding the Age of Aquarius, the terrorists attacking Israel are members of the same culture of death as the terrorists who attacked the WTC. This is all – Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. – one gigantic steaming pile of poop. The Islamofascists don’t want to coexist with Israel or us. They want us all to die. They are all bred in the same fever swamps of despotism, anti-Semitism, Islamic extremism, and all consuming hatred. These enemies of civilization are emboldened by indecisiveness, divisiveness, and peace overtures, which they perceive as nothing more than weaknesses to exploit and evidence that their barbaric tactics are succeeding. They do not want to negotiate, compromise, or debate. They want to establish a worldwide Islamofacist state and will use any means at their disposal, including genocide, the likes of which the world has never imagined, to achieve their goals. Morality demands that those with the means to do so do everything in their power to stop them. Now is the time to press our offensive against those who would gleefully, without a hint of our moral contemplation or hesitation, exterminate our entire civilization if given the chance. | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 100 Registered: 4-2006  |
Lydia there were two pictures, one of an explosion (in Beirut I believe) and one of the kid hiding in the classroom. You're right, he could be in Seth Boyden for all I know. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3669 Registered: 5-2001  |
http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=26018&post=651597#POST651 597 No Tulip, just wanted you to answer Larry's post. | ||
| Larry Seltzer Citizen Username: Elvis Post Number: 101 Registered: 4-2006 |
By the way, in 1983 a Hezbollah suicide bomber killed 241 marines in Beirut. That enough Americans for you? And now they're part of the Lebanese government. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3719 Registered: 3-2004 |
Library Lady, I believe I did answer him. What didn't I answer? Larry is rude and impertinent to me. I try not to answer people who insinuate things in their questions. I am asking you a direct, open and honest question. Is all this bombing for revenge? By the way,of course deaths in war are a sign of incivility, whether they are perpetrated by Arabs or Jews or Christians. War itself is a sign that civilization is transient and illusory. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 2066 Registered: 5-2001 |
Larry -
I suppose you're being sarcastic, and I don't know if you know that my child attends Seth Boyden - if you do know that, then I find your comments especially sickening. A huddled child anywhere in the world is even more sickening. It really doesn't matter to me who started it. We need to end it. "We" as civilized people need a cease-fire and diplomacy right now. | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3670 Registered: 5-2001 |
The deaths and attacks I listed were Americans murdered, not the Israeli who have suffered far far worse. So no, the bombing are not in retaliaton for the murders I listed. So does the murder of Americans by Hamas and the PLO bother you? Enough to post about it? When? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3720 Registered: 3-2004 |
I will be happy to answer your question. May I remind you that I am still waiting for an answer to mine, which is, will you be blaming Hezbollah if an Israeli bomb hits an American? Now, an answer to your question, "Does the murder of Americans by Hamas and the PLO bother you?" Library Lady, murders bother me, in fact, they horrify me. I am especially horrified by the murder of children, and the attacks on children. I don't know if you caught the picture of the infant Lebanese child, bleeding from the arm today on national TV. It actually made me scream. My poor husband looked bereft. How can anyone choose to kill and infant? I don't care who they are!! Of course the needless deaths and murders of any human at the hands of other humans bother me. Did you think it would be otherwise? If so, why? | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 60 Registered: 5-2006 |
War is without a doubt a horrible enterprise in which people, including innocents, suffer terribly. However, there are things that are worse then war and there is such a thing as a bad “peace”. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 2067 Registered: 5-2001 |
Library Lady - All the murders horrify me. The retaliations and re-retaliations aren't stopping any suffering, it looks like we're careening towards a really huge conflict. It just looks like a lot more blood is going to spill. There was an article in "The Onion" the week after 9/11 - penned by God. I'm paraphrasing, but | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15328 Registered: 10-2001  |
What the f**k does G-D know? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10123 Registered: 4-1997  |
God started it. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15329 Registered: 10-2001 |
KOA, I think we might have capped this thread out. What do you think? | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 61 Registered: 5-2006 |
sbenois - I concur | ||
| Nancy - LibraryLady Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 3671 Registered: 5-2001 |
Lydia, agreed that the retaliations and re-retaliations aren't stopping any suffering. But what will? Recognition, perhaps of Israel's right to exist? (Sorry, Tulip  The rights of its citizens not to worry that a suicide bomber will invade their wedding, their pizza place,their homes? War is Hell as someone else said. And if any innocent is killed I am saddened. But Hizzbollah,PLO,etc don't seem to understand anything but war.and murder, and death. Life seems to have little value to them and they would gladly sacrifice their and their children's life to be martyrs and be met in heaven by a multitude of virgins. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15330 Registered: 10-2001 |
I guess not. Okay then... Thank you President Bush for recognizing that Israel has a right to defend herself and for your clear message that Hezbollah is responsible for these events. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1867 Registered: 5-2001 |
What God wants, God gets. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1015 Registered: 4-2006 |
"The Idiots Guide to The Conflict" : 1. Israel has attacked targets associated with Hizbollah leadership and organization, routes that could be used to secret their soliders out of Lebanon, targets that would otherwise be used to re-supply Hezbollah with missles, and Lebanese radar installations that following the use of one to target the Israeli ship for Hizbollah, could be further used for those purposes. That is about it. 2. Terrorists locate themselves in civilian areas deliberately to avoid retribution, If Israel really wanted to kill Lebanese civilians there would be massive casualties in the tens of thousands. The terrorists also use any civilian casualties caused by their deliberate location among civilians to cause them and generate support. ( I think there are a coupe of suckers here for this ploy). Does anyone wonder like me as to whether tulip is in her 70s and lives with 100-200 cats? She certainly sounds like it. | ||
| Illuminated Radish Citizen Username: Umoja Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2006 |
I don't think Hezbollah can really be said to represent the Lebanese people's interest directly, after all it is a 'militia'. The Israeli millitary is under direct control of the Israeli government. Granted, Israel doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. But really, when it comes down to it, only they can create peace. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1016 Registered: 4-2006 |
Israel can certainly "create peace" by agreeing to die. You can try that first, if you want. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1286 Registered: 2-2004 |
This is becoming more comical by the post. This is for you Terry Anderson. As for the Americans stuck in Lebanon, hey guys, you might want to leave and you should have heeded the State Department warnings, but hey, you're free to travel to any s*&thole you like, and then order up the Marines to save your butt. | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 2068 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nancy -
I think that's the crux of the conflict. For the faithful, a noble death = eternal life. Not only that, the one who died for his/her faith can take several dozen friends and followers to heaven. That solves the problem of loved ones suffering - at least in this life. Maybe it's time to re-examine the often bloody repercussions of blind (IMO) faith. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1290 Registered: 2-2004 |
Please let's not. I'd rather discuss abortion or rehash (pick one - Watergate or Whitewater)! | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1291 Registered: 2-2004 |
Or pull out my finger nails while watching a Pelosi rebuttal! Then again, I kind of enjoy the latter. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2851 Registered: 6-2002 |
Radish: You say: Granted, Israel doesn't have much of a choice in the matter. But really, when it comes down to it, only they can create peace. Isn't that why they pulled out of Gaza? May I remind you that I am still waiting for an answer to mine, which is, will you be blaming Hezbollah if an Israeli bomb hits an American? Tulip: I'll answer that if you'll answer my question: Have you stopped beating your husband? By the way Tulip, you said something about Israelis going back to Brooklyn. People in Israel are from Ethiopia, Russia, Morrocco, France, Australia, and just about every other country. It's everyone in Maplewood who's from Brooklyn! | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2852 Registered: 6-2002 |
Southerner: (Attention - major thread drift) Pelosi? You told us you are voting to re-elect the incumbent Democratic Congressman from your district. He may be a "conservative" but on Jan 3, 2007, he will be voting for Pelosi for Speaker. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3721 Registered: 3-2004 |
Then you go back to Brooklyn. Which side are you on? Have you decided yet? I'd be anonymous too if I didn't know what I thought about anything. | ||
| Illuminated Radish Citizen Username: Umoja Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2006 |
FvF: "Israel can certainly "create peace" by agreeing to die. You can try that first, if you want." As a previous poster noted, if there is a solution, Israel hasn't reached it in the past 50 years. Violence, and millitary might don't seem to be able to accomplish it. Islamic millitancy isn't a thing that can be shot dead by any number of Uzis. Clearly no one has been able to come up with a solution up to this point, but I'm inclinded to believe if there is a solution it isn't going to come by war. It didn't work in Vietnam, and it's not working in Iraq. Non-conventional warfare is the thing of the future, and it's been a thorn in the side of most modern armies. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2855 Registered: 6-2002 |
I know exactly what I think about many things. When you get into a rabid pissing contest with other MOLers, why do I have to take sides? | ||
| Wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 2754 Registered: 5-2001 |
And Illuminated Radish, what has been our (the US) solution to avoid another 9/11? Do you or do you not agree that we should wage war on terrorists? Or perhaps Neville Chamberlain was right and we and Israel and Spain and India and...... should figure out what the best appeasement strategy is. As a Jew, I'm sure you can understand why I have a problem with appeasement. I would hope all rational human beings of any faith or no faith would feel the same regardless of where they live. Not all war has to be another Vietnam or Iraq for that matter, btw. Wendy Lauter | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2856 Registered: 6-2002 |
tulip: I just realized what you said: I'd be anonymous too if I didn't know what I thought about anything. So "tulip" is your legal name? | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2857 Registered: 6-2002 |
Wendy: You don't have to be Jewish to have a problem with appeasement.  | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15332 Registered: 10-2001 |
You have to be British. | ||
| Illuminated Radish Citizen Username: Umoja Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2006 |
Wendy: "And Illuminated Radish, what has been our (the US) solution to avoid another 9/11? Do you or do you not agree that we should wage war on terrorists? Or perhaps Neville Chamberlain was right and we and Israel and Spain and India and...... should figure out what the best appeasement strategy is. " I don't have a solution. America doesn't have a solution. Israel doesn't have a solution. I think we just need to realize that our answers aren't solutions. They're just more problems. When it comes down to it, hypothetically, someone could fly another plane into the Sears Tower right now. Nothing is stopping them. It wouldn't be that difficult to detonate a truck inside the Holland Tunnel. I refuse to believe that attacking people, countries, or buildings will kill terrorism. It'll kill terrorist, but not terrorism. That's a fact people need to come to terms with. Maybe America would be best served to fall back on it's Christian thinking. I'm not religious myself, but maybe if America was able to look at the teachings of Jesus (or Buddha or whatever) they could find a peaceful solution. Maybe turning the other cheek, and responding with kindness is the answer. I don't know, and those who actually run the current world order don't know. All I know is that we don't have a solution.... only a wrong answer. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3576 Registered: 5-2001  |
The situation in Israel/Lebanon is showing no signs of slowing down. Meanwhile, most of you seem to be a lot more concerned about the opinions of other people on this thread than about what's actually happening. That's pretty sad.  | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1022 Registered: 4-2006 |
Radish- Your comment is incorrect as Israel has never been ALLOWED to defeat its enemies. It is doable. Kudos to Bush for supporting Israel's attempt to wipe out Hezbollah's missles once and for all. Israel has historically been stopped by a hostile international community and international politics. And been the world's prime victim of a double standard when it comes to self-defense. Look at Putin of Russia, for example, whining about Israel not responding proportionately, when he went into Chechnia with Russian troops he killed thousands of muslims. He wasn't too concerned about the civilian population there either. Not speaking to you, but I find most people really know little about the conflict or issues, and apply a western secular mindset to a dispute that involves religious fundamentalism and oriental thought processes on the arab side. It's not like fighting a war or negotiating with the Swiss, let's say. Israel has done all it can to avoid civilian deaths in the present conflict and EVEN THAT is not enough for the Israel-haters like tulip. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12160 Registered: 5-2001 |
FvF, looks like Israel is trying a Kosovo here. So far they haven't moved troops into Southern Lebanon and I suspect they aren't going to. They are pushing the fractured Lebanese Army to move in. One of the news programs had a talking head (didn't get the name) indicating that Hezbollah probably has over 1,000 missles so this is going to go on for awhile. Israel doesn't target civilians, but collateral damage doesn't slow them down. It will be interesting when Hezbollah decides to start moving into Christian and Sunni areas and amongst the foreign community as this is going to go on for awhile, like at least six months. | ||
| Spinal Tap Citizen Username: Spinaltap11 Post Number: 62 Registered: 5-2006 |
Comparing today’s appeasers to Neville Chamberlain is an insult to Chamberlain. After WWII broke out, Chamberlain admitted his mistakes and threw his weight behind Churchill and the war effort. After 60 years of unrelenting terrorist attacks, some people still don’t get it. |
