| Author |
Message |
    
Spinal Tap
Citizen
Username: Spinaltap11
Post Number: 68
Registered: 5-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:31 pm: | 
|
I concur with Tom and anon. Tulip - please try and let me know when the flying saucers start landing. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3747
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |
|
Bye-bye Tom. History will prove me right. |
Strawberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7552
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:33 pm: |
|
Tom,
The Mets are actually owned by one of those blood sucking Jews. Right, Tulip? |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3748
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 3:35 pm: |
|
OK, Wendy, Larry, Tom, Spinal Tap, J. Crohn, susan, etc.etc.
I take it you can't justify this. Your silence is deafening. I am calling your bluff. You can't back up your position with facts or reality. It is you who are pathetically flying to the moon.
Say hi to the illegal aliens as you go.
OH my...You probably think that was a threat!!  |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1024
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
|
I suggest a one-way ticket for tulip to Gaza. There she can spend her time with the "humanitarians" at Hamas who will be actively trying to recruit her as a suicide bomber, given her views on Israel. Of course she won't mind having to wear her burkha, either, as women are second-class citizens in that society.
Her "spin" on the G-8 summit was amusing too. The reality is that despite the finely tuned words Israel is being told basically that it is ok to finish the job on Hizbollah. The Sunni Arab world is pretty much of the same view, because they are afraid of the Palestinian-Hezbollah-Syria-Iran nexsus of radicalism. The christians in Lebanon feel the same way too.
tulip does it bother you that some arab moslems are really loving and are in strong favor of what Israel is doing in Lebanon? Poor Nasrallah was on tv too,complaining how the "arabs' weren't getting behind his cause. Awwwwww. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1690
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 5:28 pm: |
|
Tulip, I simply do not have the time or desire to argue with you.
The Israelis have not been the ones behind a generation of suicide bombings. How would you feel if you had relatives or friends who had been killed or injured in them?
Your one-sided opinions speak for themselves, and suggest that true debate is not what you are after here.
I too am done in this thread. I will pray for peace and understanding in the world, but I will not debate them with you here. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3752
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 5:41 pm: |
|
You pray for peace, but support murderers.
Thank God I don't have to argue with you. You made up your mind a long time ago. You are not for peace. You are for Israel. We have had this argument before, and you cannot win, because you cannot prove you place peace above Israel's happiness. Israel was born in blood and lives in blood to this day, and maintains it is not Israel's fault. Bull!! Israel should behave itself.
|
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3753
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 5:45 pm: |
|
I have one more word for you,.,
IRGUN... suicide bombers par excellence. So much for the moral high ground. And since you have your cozy little community of Arab haters, there you go!!!Have fun praying. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1691
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
|
Israel was born in the blood of intolerance and bigotry, and survived by fighting fire with fire. This has lead to some complex moral situations, and although I do not agree with every decision that Israel has made, I strongly support their peoplehood and nation against their enemies, including those who seem to be happy to ignore the evils that have been committed against them while decrying every move that they make.
My mistake is to let you draw me into discussion once every year or so. But my learning curve is getting faster.
You suggested that the people of Israel leave a place where they are not wanted. I might suggest that you take your own advice. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3755
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 6:02 pm: |
|
If Israel shouldn't respond to criticism, why should I?
I don't ignore anything. Israelis fought for land there out of choice. Therefore, they receive the consequences of their choices. Lebanese people have lived in Lebanon for millenia. Their choice was made long ago.
|
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10133
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:04 pm: |
|
And Lebanon also chose to dig a tunnel under a wall, shoot two Israelis and kidnap a third. Knowing that such actions will be met with losing a few city blocks, government offices, an airport, vital roadways and a few power stations may make nations rethink using violence to accomplish things. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3760
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:07 pm: |
|
Dave. Are you talking about Lebanon, or Hezbollah?
And "Losing a few city blocks..." ????? There aren't any bridges left. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4489
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:39 pm: |
|
Tulip,
Does Israel have the right to exist? Or, are you suggesting that the Jews in Israel renounce Zionism and disperse to the four corners of the world?
What is Israel supposed to do given that a significant, and, I suppose, majority percentage of Arabs have a goal of the destruction of Israel?
I think there is reason to be deeply concerned about the current round of violence for a variety of reasons. Hezbollah is fighting back pretty well by Arab measures. With the reduction of Syrian control of events in Lebanon, for example, there is nobody to moderate the activities of Hezbollah. With the destruction of Iraq, there is no regional power to moderate the activities of Iran. It doesn't seem to be in anybody's national interest to support Israel (we do so for domestic political reasons). It is, however, in the national interest of most countries to get along decently with the oil-producing Arab nations. So, there is the risk of the conflict eventually become the U.S. and Israel arrayed against the rest of the world in varying degree. While I don't see this as escalating to the point of a U.S. confrontation with Russia or China, it doesn't bode well for the longer-term future.
But enough geopolitical rambling. Please respond to my questions. If Israel has the right to exist, how should she conduct herself in neighborhood where the neighbors want to destroy her?
|
Illuminated Radish
Citizen
Username: Umoja
Post Number: 31
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:53 pm: |
|
Lebanon didn't want to destroy Israel. I can almost put money on the fact that after decades of Civil War, the Lebanese only wanted peace. Weren't they America's friends last week?
Does the actions of an NGO (being that the Hezbollah Militia isn't government controlled), justify attacking a government?
I can see Tulip's viewpoint, I think it's radical to the extreme (and therefore not very realistic), but I do think people are jumping down Tulip's throat and are too quick to consider Anti-Zionism as being Anti-Jewish. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3764
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:58 pm: |
|
tjohn:
I have a few thoughts on that, and thanks for asking.
I think Israel has a problem in turning to the US. I think Israel has to develop some diplomatic tools of its own. It has to take diplomacy into its own hands. First, reach out diplomatically to Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Morocco, Algeria, and hold summits with them. Also Egypt and Jordan. Sit down with the leaders of these nations, if they will come, or offer behind the scenes meetings between the highest level of government in each country. Plan regular, scheduled meetings with these leaders, to discuss political, and geopolitical issues. Israel HAS to show some good faith with the more moderate of its neighbors in order to move toward a communicative stance with its less friendly neighbors.
On another front, Israel has to allow Palestinians back into Gaza and demonstrate through behavior and treatment of these folks, a level of respect. Provide services, water, police protection, small acts of governance, rather than colonialist suspicious treatment and bureaucratic behavior toward them. Lose the Kalishnikovs when they patrol the streets, for example.
Then, on another front, go to the United Nations and ask for help. A polite, humble posture toward all those resentful, disappointed nations at the UN, who really don't like this behavior on the part of Israel, would be a good thing to do. Explain clearly, and in writing, a report perhaps, why they did what they just did. Offer evidence. Offer clear explanations. Offer real reasons for their attack, in a posture, and with a stance of respect.
Right now, Israel is seen by the world as enormously arrogant. Lose the arrogance. Learn how to offer clear statements of evidence, and how to listen to critics and respond respectfully to them. Lose the belief that Israeli blood is more precious than anyone else's. Learn as a nation that they are citizens among nations, and they, as other nations, are lucky to be so.
Treasure their own sovereignty, and that of other nations.
Once their moderate Arab neighbors have come, one by one, to meet with Israeli leaders, reach out to the less moderate ones. When the less moderate neighbors (now Lebanon, Iraq perhaps, certainly Iran) see that other Middle Eastern countries can speak with Israel without repercussion, they too might be willing to come for talks.
Israel needs to make a statement to the world that they realize they have a problem and are willing to work on it. That would make a point of humility that is currently totally lacking in Israel's national image.
Then, finally, reach out to the new extremists, including Hezbollah and Hamas, BUT WITH the help of the moderate and (if they become willing to help) the less moderate neighbors.
All this takes years. That's what it takes. But if you want to survive in a difficult neighborhood, as some of us have had to do, we learn how to get along with our difficult neighbors by showing our earnestness, our hard=working nature and our good character. It could work, as these are the traits that gave the United Nations its desire to grant Israel nationhood to begin with.
Incidentally, since Bush really isn't able to be the intermediary, I would turn to Putin for help in getting nations to the table.
|
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4492
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 7:58 pm: |
|
Certainly Lebanon wants peace. But Hezbollah does not and Hezbollah is operating pretty freely in Lebanon. Clearly, Israel is deliberately punishing Lebanon for not controlling Hezbollah (an impossible task for Lebanon). And I think this will backfire on Israel.
Would it have been better for Israel to reoccupy Southern Lebanon? |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3765
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 8:05 pm: |
|
tjohn: Your question is a bit contradictory. You understand that the expectations of Israel for the Lebanese PM are a impossible to satisfy. Why would they nonetheless occupy Southern Lebanon? That still punishes the leader who has no means to give what Israel wants him to give. |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2561
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:27 pm: |
|
"J. Crohn, if that were your family killed by an Israeli bomb, would you be analyzing the difference between that and the Holocaust?"
F u c k you, my dear. Go straight to hell. I have a friend of 25 years who was, at last contact, hunkered down in her Beirut basement with her husband, her severely disabled daughter, and their adopted son. Her mother-in-law knitted a jacket for my son when he was born.
I have numerous friends and family in Israel as well, including a cousin whose immediate family and visiting in-laws were as of this morning still trying to get to Jerusalem from Kinneret (what you call "Galilee").
I suppose I must point out to you that Kinneret is in northern Israel, well within rocket range of Hizballah.
Eight people were blown to pieces at a Haifa train station today, and twenty more injured. But you don't care. For you it's all about self flagellation, isn't it.
|
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3783
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:33 pm: |
|
Well, you sweet, dear lady, bring them to your home and take care of them.
I feel so sorry for you.
And I thought you were smart. You have no perspective. You are upset. Israel really doesn't look very good right now, and there's no amount of that lovely rhetoric you cough up every time your beloved country is in trouble that will put humpty dumpty together.
Amen. |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2764
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
|
J Crohn, how horrible for your friends and family. My thoughts and prayers are with them and the others affected by all this. I wish them the best.
Btw, I don't think tulip is Jewish. It doesn't matter, but I don't think she is. What she is is the worst type of anti-semite. Calling Israel arrogant, saying Israel needs to act humble. Read her above 7:58 post. It's a master plan by her to have Israel commit suicide but do it with honor. I say leave the crazy person alone and let's talk civilly with those who actually have a mind that can engage in discourse. |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3784
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
|
Nope, not Jewish. Nope, I'm a fake. Good night, ladies, it seems you need some sleep.
J. Crohn, I really am sorry to hear about your friend being trapped in Beirut. Did I tell you, I have an old friend whose father taught at the University? Beirut was a beautiful city. No more. They have worked so hard to build it back up. It's a shame it has crumbled once again. Perhaps Israel could figure out another way to get what they need. No? |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2562
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:42 pm: |
|
Attacks Could Erode Faction's Support
Pressure Building Against Shiite Militia
By Anthony Shadid
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, July 14, 2006; A01
BEIRUT, July 13 -- The radical Shiite movement Hezbollah and its leader, Hasan Nasrallah, hold an effective veto in Lebanese politics, and the group's military prowess has heartened its supporters at home and abroad in the Arab world. But that same force of arms has begun to endanger Hezbollah's long-term standing in a country where critics accuse it of dragging Lebanon into an unwinnable conflict the government neither chose nor wants to fight.
"To a certain Arab audience and Arab elite, Nasrallah is a champion, but the price is high," said Walid Jumblatt, a member of parliament and leader of Lebanon's Druze community. "We are paying a high price."
The conflict will likely prove a turning point in the history of the movement, which was created with Iranian patronage in the wake of the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon. It has since evolved from a terrorist organization blamed for two attacks on the U.S. Embassy and the 1983 bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut, which killed 241 Marines, into a sprawling movement with a member and supporter in Lebanon's cabinet, a militia that effectively controls southern Lebanon, and an infrastructure that delivers welfare to its Shiite constituency, Lebanon's largest community.
But in the wake of Syria's withdrawal of its troops from Lebanon in 2005, the disarmament of Hezbollah has emerged as one of the foremost issues in Lebanese politics. Since the fighting with Israel started Wednesday, calls for Hezbollah to relinquish its weapons have gathered urgency. The violence began when Hezbollah fighters captured two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border incursion, followed by an Israeli attack on roads, bridges, power stations and airports.
Lebanese critics as well as allies of Hezbollah insist that the Israeli response was disproportionate. But at the same time, in meetings Thursday, Lebanese officials began to lay the groundwork for an extension of government control to southern Lebanon. Hezbollah largely controls southern Lebanon, where it has built up a network of schools, hospitals and charities.
"To declare war and to make military action must be a decision made by the state and not by a party," said Nabil de Freige, a parliament member. He belongs to the bloc headed by Saad Hariri, whose father, Rafiq, a former prime minister and wealthy businessman, was assassinated in 2005, setting off a sequence of events that forced the Syrian withdrawal. "It's a very simple equation: You have to be a state."
After a cabinet meeting Thursday, the government said it had a right and duty to extend its control over all Lebanese territory. Interior Minister Ahmed Fatfat said the statement marked a step toward the government reasserting itself.
Other government officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, went further, calling it a first move in possibly sending the Lebanese army to the border, a U.N.-endorsed proposal that Hezbollah has rejected. The officials described the meeting as stormy and contentious but said both sides -- Hezbollah and its government critics -- were especially wary of public divisions at a time of crisis.
"It is becoming very clear that the state alone must bear responsibility for the country's foreign policy," said Samir Franjieh, a parliament member who is close to the Hariri bloc. "But our problem now is that Israel is taking things so far that if there is no help from the international community, the situation could get out of hand."
The fate of Hezbollah is at the center of Lebanon's sectarian complexity, now more pronounced than perhaps at any time since the 1975-90 civil war. Hezbollah's future is also tied up in regional politics dominated by Syria, Iran and Israel.
Along with Lebanon's president, Emile Lahoud, Hezbollah remains one of Syria's main allies in Lebanon. The governments of Syria and Iran provide Hezbollah with funding and arms, although the countries' influence is a matter of debate. Analysts here say Iranian influence has become ascendant following the Syrian pullout, though foreign policy in the two countries has so far largely overlapped. The United States renewed its call Thursday for those countries to intervene to get the two Israeli soldiers released.
"It's really time for everybody to acknowledge that these two states do have some measure of control over Hezbollah," State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters in Washington. "And the international community has called upon them to exercise that control, to have these two individuals released."
Few dispute Syria's influence over Hezbollah. But some experts questioned whether Syria, isolated by the United States and suspected by many in Lebanon of having a role in Hariri's assassination, actually ordered the operation against Israel.
"I don't think that Syria is in a position to assume the consequences of such an attack or order such an operation," said Walid Charara, an author and expert on the movement. "That said, Syria maintains relations of consultation with Hezbollah and Hamas, both of which enjoy a large scope of autonomy of action."
Jumblatt, an outspoken opponent of Syria, went further, suggesting Damascus ordered the operation.
"They don't make independent decisions," he said. "Lebanon is being squeezed on one side from the Israelis and on the other side by the Iranians and the Syrians through proxy. Unfortunately, now Lebanon is a battleground."
Hezbollah appeared at a low point after the Syrian withdrawal, but over the past few months, analysts say, it has shored up its standing in politics here. In national reconciliation talks that have dragged on for months, the group effectively blocked negotiations over its weapons. This year, it entered into an alliance with the country's most popular Christian leader, Michel Aoun. In Lebanon there is a widely held perception that U.S. pressure on Syria has abated, while a U.N. investigation into Hariri's death has lost momentum.
At a news conference Wednesday, Nasrallah struck an assured pose, at one point joking with journalists who asked about Israeli threats to escalate its attacks in an attempt to secure the release of its soldiers.
"Of course, they are going to say that. They think we are going to return the two prisoners, apologize and even more?" said Nasrallah, wearing his traditional black turban. He laughed. "What world do they live in?"
Given the country's sectarian divisions, politics often have to work by consensus. Because Hezbollah is the most powerful representative of Shiites, Lebanon's government could not think of alienating such a crucial constituency. Since the fighting began, officials have gone to great lengths to guarantee at least a public show of unity. And even critics such as Jumblatt say the prospect of the group's disarmament -- a requirement under U.N. Security Council Resolution 1559 -- is almost impossible.
"We don't have the means to disarm Hezbollah, and we don't want to have a civil war here," he said.
Since the fighting erupted, opinions have broken along largely sectarian lines. Hezbollah's supporters in south Beirut and southern Lebanon greeted the attack with jubilation: Residents near a destroyed bridge handed out free orange juice to passersby, women threw rice on cars, and motorists careered through the streets flying the group's yellow banner.
Hezbollah's ideology merges Arab nationalism, Islamic revivalism and a powerful historical narrative of Shiite disenfranchisement, which is especially pronounced in Lebanon, where Shiites were once casually referred to as the deprived. Along the rocky wadis, or dry riverbeds, of southern Lebanon, Hezbollah's celebration of Shiite empowerment is often hailed by the group's most loyal supporters, sometimes more so than its schools, clinics, hospitals, orphanages and foundations for families of its slain fighters.
"They consider Hezbollah terrorist. We consider it sacred. We consider it and its weapons sacred," said Mohammed Awadeh, a 27-year-old shopping in a stationery store in the southern town of Nabatiyeh.
On the road there, as in the southern suburbs, banners pronounced the theme: "The weapons which liberated our land are sacred weapons." Another banner: "With the resistance, we liberate our land. With the resistance, we protect ourselves."
Referring to Nasrallah, Aoun Aoun, a resident of Nabatiyeh, said, "Sayyed Hasan is the only man who promises and delivers."
Nasrallah, as an individual, probably enjoys more support in Lebanon than his movement does. While Sunni Muslims and Christians in Lebanon have worried about the repercussions of the fighting, they rarely criticize Nasrallah himself. But there was anger in the streets of Beirut's Ashrafiyeh district over fighting that has debilitated infrastructure built since the civil war.
"I'll tell you something: Hasan Nasrallah as a person is clever, very clever. You can't say he's not, but the path he chose is completely wrong," said Rami Fouad, a 22-year-old resident sitting with friends at Dunkin' Donuts. "It's not right to do it this way. Nothing will come by force. Who's going to pay for all this? Is Hezbollah going to bring the money from Iran?"
Across from him was a friend who had fled Marjayoun in southern Lebanon in the morning, making his way to the relative safety of Beirut. "Is it right? Should he be thrown out of his home?" asked another friend, David Rahbani.
Special correspondents Alia Ibrahim and Lynn Maalouf in Beirut contributed to this report. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10139
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
|
The swearing-in salute
 |
tulip
Citizen
Username: Braveheart
Post Number: 3785
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
|
Nasrallah, as an individual, probably enjoys more support in Lebanon than his movement does
There you have it. Maybe the "average Lebanese" person doesn't side so much with Hezbollah, and yet, they are being punished by Israeli bombs just as much as the Hezbollah is. I think it's wrong. |
Mtam
Citizen
Username: Mtam
Post Number: 116
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
|
Tulip, it's time to graduate from 3rd grade wistfulness and learn about the real world. It's dreadful that Lebanon must undergo this, simply dreadful--just when the country was achieving normalcy. But it is a complicated country, and make no bones about it, there are strong supporters within Lebanon for Hezbollah, especially in the south. Unfortunately, the government is very weak, and contrary to the UN agreement, Hezbollah has not been disarmed. That was the agreement and this was clearly a planned provocation to show who has the upper hand. It's terrible that Lebanon is hostage to this--please don't forget the assassination of a beloved figure there, and the report that pointed to Syria--but you can't just reflexively point to Israel as the be all demon. Iran and Syria and Islamic fundamentalists are making their points, too and throwing their weight around.
We can parse about Israel's response--I have my share of criticisms and they are many, many--but simplistic statements about a very complicated situation do not help. Believe me, most Israelis have no appetite for returning to Lebanon--they regard the 82 war as a mistake, much like our Vietnam. But there are deeper regional currents here and I find that it's no coincidence that this inflamed just at the moment when Abbas, as weaks as he is, was to have a referendum that might take some of the political stage from Hamas, and there is an Israeli government commited to a Gaza withdrawal and a West Bank withdrawal. Add to this that our misadventure in Iraq has created a power vacuum and Iran is ready to flex its muscles and assert itself. |
Illuminated Radish
Citizen
Username: Umoja
Post Number: 34
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, July 16, 2006 - 11:19 pm: |
|
Of course Israel views the 1982 war as a mistake, if they hadn't responded as harshly then Hezbollah wouldn't exist. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3511
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
|
Tulip: In an ironic way, I am sorry you are banned for your ad hominem attack on Wendy in another thread, because your writings here have helped me clarify my thoughts about what is going on in the Middle East right now.
Mtam said it all for me, and very well--I have criticisms about how Israel is prosecuting this war, but I have no doubt that the war itself is the right thing. The more you ranted on, the clearer it became for me that your arguments hold no water. It is very clear that Hezbollah and Hamas were being geared up by Syria and Iran to attack Israel, and soon. Israel chose not to wait to be attacked first, as happened in 1948, 1967, and 1973 when all those lovely neighbors you extol attacked Israel in concert. I mean, Hezbollah did not suddenly get 12,000 rockets, including Iranian rockets that can reach 40 miles with 100 pounds of explosives. This was planned, and sooner than later would have led to a direct coordinated assault on Israel.
It is also clear that Sunni and Shiite radicals are fighting in concert against Israel. This is making the autocrats in Sunni lands very nervous, which is why Saudi Arabia, Morrocco, etc recently told Hezbollah to cease and desist on attacks on Israel (at yesterday's Arab League meeting). This is far more about Iran trying to take over the Middle East than it is about Israel's actions. Your focus solely on Israel's culpability serverely undermines your arguments.
Oh, and though you can only lurk and cannot respond, which is unfortunate, I do need to say that your statement that Isreal should sit down and talk with its neighbors, including Saudi Arabi and Algeria, to be so ludicrous as to be laughable. How do you sit down with people who will not recognize you as a legitimate country? How do you talk to people whose official position is to be at war with you, who are therefore committed to your destruction? Are you that naive and blinded by your adherence to your views that you do not understand this one simple fact--that 90% of the Arab world is directly committed to the destruction of the State of Israel, and the remaining 10% gladly stand by while rockets rain down on Israel?
It is easy to sit here in sunny New Jersey and say, "why can't we all get along?" It is fine to advocate confidence building moves and greater integration, and I am all for that. But the first precondition has to be formal recognition that the State of Israel is real--without that, how can you sit here and demand that Israel make the first moves? |
Ukealalio
Citizen
Username: Ukealalio
Post Number: 2586
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:25 am: |
|
This whole thing is making me physically ill, as my niece is in Israel now and she won't come home (Of course thats not the only reason but when someone in your immediate family is in the line of fire, the reality of the situation can be crushing).
Sit down and talk to Saudi Arabia and Algeria huh ?, imbecilic comment.
For those who are calling Israel a "Bully", listen to the song,
" Neighborhood Bully ", by Dylan on Infidels. he say's it so much better than most. |
Wendy
Supporter
Username: Wendy
Post Number: 2769
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
|
ESL, great post. I think tulip served her purpose if it got you and others, including me, to continue to think about things.
Uke, agreed. My heart goes out to your niece. Peace. |
|
Closed: New threads not accepted on this page