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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 1210
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 6:02 pm: | 
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3609
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 11:29 am: |
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Shevya Birdov
Citizen
Username: Howardt
Post Number: 2239
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 11:37 am: |
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Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 1294
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
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Notehead,
Good to see that you can get a laugh out of the molestation of kids. It's also good to see that you're not above using tired old material. |
Shevya Birdov
Citizen
Username: Howardt
Post Number: 2241
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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better than using old tire material. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3611
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 3:17 pm: |
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Joe's using "old ire" material. |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2877
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:10 pm: |
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Quiz: Who was the last Mayor of New York who went on to higher elective office, whether Senator, Governor, Vice-Presidentor President? |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1146
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:23 pm: |
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I guess President Bloomberg is a bad suggestion too. |
pcs81632
Citizen
Username: Pcs81632
Post Number: 78
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:34 pm: |
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Somebody go back and read a newspaper from September 10th and tell me why Rudy should be President. On September 11th, he:
Didn't sit and read "My Pet Goat".
Didn't disappear for 10 hours in fear he'd be shot out of the sky.
He was honest with the public, as he should be.
And he was available for press conferences.
Before that, everyone was saying what a disaster his tenure as Mayor was and people couldn't wait for some sanity.
Now he's a saint.
Gimme a break.
He's pro choice and pro gay rights. Red State America will never go for him without swallowing a HUGE chunk of their own beliefs. If he gets the nomination, Republicans are truly desperate and will nominate anyone they think can win and be a "Republican".
Let's hope Rudy stays true to his beliefs. But he won't. He's too eager to get to the top of the greasy pole, as Disraeli said.
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sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15387
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:37 pm: |
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You are discounting the leadership he showed from 9/11 onward? It doesn't count?
Give me a break indeed. |
Gregor Samsa
Citizen
Username: Oldsctls67
Post Number: 568
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
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pcs would never compromise his/her own beliefs to get a Dem elected...I don't even know why I'm posting this... |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5312
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:19 pm: |
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Well sure his leadership then counted. But there's more to being President than leadership during a crisis. There's a lot of nuts-and-bolts of government that needs to be handled, diplomacy with other nations, working with Congress and the courts, working with various state governments, not to mention the entrenched bureaucracy. There's nothing in Giuliani's mayoral performance to lead one to believe he'd be any good at any of these.
Plus he tried to cancel the election and stay in office. |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15388
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:30 pm: |
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That is positively ridiculous. It Rudy was a Democrat you'd be screaming his name at the top of your lungs.
Running the most complex city in the world for 8 years doesn't count as nuts and bolts experience? What the heck did Kerry run to gain your support 2 years ago? The Boston Marathon?
You ready to vote for Hillary? What experience does she have?
Please.
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5313
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 10:52 pm: |
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I didn't say he had no experience; I'm trying to indicate that he's proven to be impossible to work with. You can't bully the president of Russia, or fire the Chancellor of Germany like you would yet another errant school superintendent. |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2879
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Friday, July 21, 2006 - 11:45 pm: |
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Does experience matter? One set of people think Clinton was a great President. What was his experience? He was Governor of a small relatively backward State. A different set of folks think Bush is a great President. He was Governor of a State where the Governor does not have much power.
Truman was a US Senator, and VP for about six months when he became President.
Lincoln had served one term in Congress 15 years before he became President.
Sbenois: If Rudy were a Democrat with the same views on foreign policy that he has now, he'd be Lieberman, and the "Left" of the Democratic Party would not support him. But he is a Republican and given his views on "social issues" I don't see how the "Right" of the Republican Party can support him. |
crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton
Post Number: 731
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:35 am: |
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Yeah, but he might just be electable without them. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2273
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 9:49 am: |
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Quote:If Rudy was a Democrat
IF. IF. If a frog had wings...
He's not a Democrat, and there's a reason for that. Aside from his moderate social positions, he's otherwise a typical law-and-order, authoritarian Republican hawk. So why would a person who doesn't support GWB support Rudy? Philosophically, he's Bush minus the Chrisitan rhetoric. Of course he's smarter and a much more competent chief executive than Bush, but at this point you've got to ask - who wouldn't be? |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15397
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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Rudy was endorsed by the New York State Liberal Party in both Mayoral elections.
If Rudy woke up tomorrow, didn't change a single position - including his views on foreign policy - yet announced that he was changing parties, he'd be the great hero of Democrats everywhere.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15115
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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sbenois wrote: That is positively ridiculous. It Rudy was a Democrat you'd be screaming his name at the top of your lungs.
That's a hypothesis that can't be proven or disproven. When my kids give me that logic, I remind them I will instead look at the record.
Trying to prolong his power beyond his term limit is serious business. It would be worse in the presidency.
The answer to anon's quiz is: no one has ever been elected to anything higher after being mayor of NYC.
Giuliani tried to destroy freedom of speech with the Brooklyn Museum. I won't vote for someone who doesn't get what the first amendment is about.
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sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 15398
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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Hey Tom, is flag burning a right guaranteed under the First Amendment? |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4534
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 10:27 am: |
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I discount the leadership shown by Giuliani after 9/11. It was certainly a good thing that he helped reassure people, but it wasn't a true test of leadership in the way, say, the IDF was tested on the Golan Heights during the opening days of the Yom Kippur War. Now, that was an example of not losing control under unbelievable pressure. |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2274
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:13 am: |
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Quote:If Rudy woke up tomorrow, didn't change a single position - including his views on foreign policy - yet announced that he was changing parties, he'd be the great hero of Democrats everywhere.
He'd be the great hero of the DLC, which does not speak for all Democrats, much less all "libs." |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2275
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:18 am: |
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and with regard to the Liberal Party's endorsement of Giuliani, it didn't sit really well with the rank and file:
Quote:For the last eight years, the influence of the New York Liberal Party and its leader, Raymond B. Harding -- which is considerable -- has been almost entirely a function of its friend in City Hall, Mayor Rudolph W. Giuliani. Mr. Harding helped the Republican mayor win election in a Democratic city by awarding him the Liberal Party line in 1993 and 1997. And Mr. Harding has reaped his reward in access, influence and patronage jobs for family (both sons work for City Hall) and friends alike.
So it is that Mr. Giuliani's imminent departure from City Hall has posed a new challenge to Mr. Harding, one of the more enduring and resourceful figures in New York politics. And as he contemplates how to maintain his party's City Hall influence in the post-Giuliani era, Mr. Harding is finding that the Liberal Party line may not be as desirable as it once was, and that there is something of a backlash for his long collaboration with the mayor.
http://select.nytimes.com/search/restricted/article?res=F50A14FE3D5D0C778EDDAD08 94D9404482
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15117
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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sbenois, why would you want to argue about flag burning to discuss Giuliani's take on the first amendment? I don't believe Giuliani ever dealt with the flag burning debate.
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pcs81632
Citizen
Username: Pcs81632
Post Number: 79
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
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Rudy will NEVER make it through the red state primaries. They politically killed McCain in the So Carolina primary when the Bush campaign kicked off it's smear campaign, and that was because they thought he had fathered a child with a black woman.
Do you really think those same people will hold thier noses, ignore Rudy's support for gay rights and his pro choice stance, and then pull the lever (or push the Diebold button) to vote for him? Never gonna happen. Get out of blue state America and talk to these people.
Of course, if Diebold has anything to do with it, he'll win hands down all across America.
And, yes, I am a Dem, but I'd never vote for Sen Clinton. Totally unelectable in my opinion.
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anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2883
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 1:55 pm: |
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Tom Reingold wins the quiz! (But I'm not sure what the prize is yet)
The Liberal Party of New York was essentially a patronage machine giving its support to whomever it thought would win and give it the most jobs and influence.
Dr. O: Bush without the "Christian rhetoric' is not Bush. It's like what you said about "If a frog had wings...". Bush without the Christian Rhetoric is like a frog without scales.
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Phenixrising
Citizen
Username: Phenixrising
Post Number: 1801
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 8:27 am: |
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That is positively ridiculous. It Rudy was a Democrat you'd be screaming his name at the top of your lungs.
oh Hell to the NAW!
For all and one of the reasons stated by TomR:
Giuliani tried to destroy freedom of speech with the Brooklyn Museum. I won't vote for someone who doesn't get what the first amendment is about.
2. His past before 9/11 he was known as a divisive mayor and that will surely come up.
3. The movie “Giuliani Time” which depicts the Giuliani's tenure with brutality, racial revanchism and contempt for civil liberties. The pre-9/11 Giluiani engaged in scores of court fights through the city's law department to contest constitutional rights of assembly and expression, in realms ranging from arts and advertising to public records access and employee whistleblowing.
4. His past tryst with certain LADIES will NOT sit well with the rightwing constituents. (He's pissed off so many women with the way he treated his wife that they're not going to forgive and forget!)
5. He has a knack for turning allies into critics.
6. He’s from the NORTH.
7. Bernard B. Kerik
I'm sure others could add to the list. Giuliani running for president will surely bring about a lot of MUD SLINGING.
BTW… I do NOT support Hillary for president.
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3617
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
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Does anybody on MOL want Hillary to be POTUS? The idea makes me queasy. |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 2122
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 5:00 pm: |
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Someone needs to tell me why the First Baptist Church would schedule Bible Study and Worship services at THE SAME TIME!!!!!
It's really bugging me  .
My prediction - Rudy will run in a primary but won't be nominated to run. |
Foj
Citizen
Username: Foger
Post Number: 1682
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 8:03 pm: |
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Nancy Leposi in '07. |
SoOrLady
Citizen
Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 3444
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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LilB - Worship is on Sunday, Bible Study is on Wednesdays |
Ender
Citizen
Username: Enderw
Post Number: 70
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:37 pm: |
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Anon wrote:
Quiz: Who was the last Mayor of New York who went on to higher elective office, whether Senator, Governor, Vice-Presidentor President?
Tom Reingold answered "The answer to anon's quiz is: no one has ever been elected to anything higher after being mayor of NYC. "
Another example of a liberal not letting the facts get in the way of an argument, right Tommy? I'm not sure why Anon gave him credit (unless they are the same person???)
Edward Livingston - NY Mayor - 1801-1803, Lousiana Senator 1829-1831 (also a US Rep-elective and Secretary of State-non-elective after being Mayor).
Dewitt Clinton - NY Mayor - 1803-1815 (intermittent service), NY Governor 1817-1823
So, without going through the whole list of over 60 New York Mayors, by 1803, two of the NY Mayors went on to run and win elective office of Senator, Governor, VP or President. I quickly looked and several (at least) others went on to become Reps (in US House) and hold many other offices - elected and non-elected.
I always love challening a liberal with the facts!!
Up above somebody asked if they really trusted the NY Sun. My answer - I trust the NY Sun a whole lot more than I trust the NY Times.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15135
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 24, 2006 - 11:44 pm: |
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Thank you for those facts. I was wondering if we'd find a mayor who rose above mayoralty if we went far back enough in the records. Still, anon makes a good point if it hasn't happened recently. Which leads me to ask: has it happened recently?
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tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5329
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 25, 2006 - 1:08 am: |
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Only three mayors of any city have gone on to be President. Andrew Johnson (who of course was not elected), Grover Cleveland, and Calvin Coolidge (who took office after Harding's death). So arguably only one former mayor has been elected on his own merits.
Mayors who have gone on to other high offices have also been scarce. This Washington Post story gives some interesting background on the question. Richard Lugar, Dianne Feinstein, Pete Domenici and George Voinovich are current US Senators who were once mayors. |
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