| Author | Message | ||
     Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12282 Registered: 5-2001 |
JC, I think everyone now believes that Iran is supporting Hezbollah, that isn't in question and that, much like the Soviets in Korea, they have advisors in Lebanon. However, do you really think that anyone in the Iranian government would pass out the type of information you posted? There is a lot of detail that, if true, would be of great interest to Israel and the United States including a lot of nice hints on where to go bunker busting. Joel, I posted earlier on my speculation on who was in the building and don't disagree with your hint. However, to justify targeting the building gets very close to genocide, which is somewhere most of us don't want to go. | ||
| Lord Pabulum Citizen Username: Lord_pabulum Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2006  |
After Israel conquers Lebonon I think they should annex the Sudetenland | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1819 Registered: 9-2004  |
But the true killer of those civilians -- including the children -- is radical Islam. It is a known tactic of Islamofascists to use innocent civilians as cannon fodder for their cause. They surround themselves with the innocent, attack their prey, and then wait for the retaliation, hoping for civilian casualties that TV cameras will project into living rooms around the globe. The Israelis were setup by these terrorists, and most of the members of the news media know they were setup. But instead of revealing the truth, they find it within their political and professional self-interest to play the terrorists' game. Thought the Israel's Intelligence Agency was "smarter" than to fall prey to this. Again, it comes down to WHO is spinning the story. Its one thing to bomb Hezbollah targets and positions, however, the execution of this is still in question. How many so-called “accidents” which seem to be mounting in the deaths of countless innocent civilians? The filmed shown by the Israeli’s of a rocket launcher in Qana was taken 8 days ago. Enough time for Hezbollah to move on to another location. Yesterday, some observers noted there were NO rocket launchers in the area or near the building of those refugees. How many accidents so far… * In al-Ansariya, a Red Cross centre was hit by an air raid, injuring a medic. * Four U.N. observers died Tuesday when an Israeli precision-guided bomb hit their post in southern Lebanon, said Lebanese security sources and a Western diplomat. Israel has said the attack was an accident. * In Qana“Israeli officials said the airstrike was an accident and that its forces intended to target a nearby Hezbollah position. Meantime many of the dead were children, some handicapped who could not escape but sought refuge in this building. * And today, the Israeli military expressed regret that one of the strikes hit a Lebanese military vehicle outside Tyre, Lebanon. The Israel Defense Forces said it was unclear how many people were killed. Earlier, a senior Lebanese Interior Ministry official said the airstrike killed an aide to a Lebanese general and wounded three soldiers. The general survived the attack, the official said. The IDF said it thought the car was carrying a senior Hezbollah militant involved in directing rocket fire on Israel. ****************************************************** How many more “accidents’ can be justified? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 788 Registered: 1-2006 |
Accidents happen in peacetime. Accidents happen in war. jd | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2625 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Terrorists and their supporters have lost the right to complain about civilian casualties, since all they have is one goal: this entire war is to target civilians. Every single one of the more than 2,500 rockets launched into Israel, is launched into populated towns filled with women and children. Just today, another explosive belt meant to kill civilians in Israel was detonated harmlessly by our forces in Nablus. "So don't cry to me about civilian casualties. Cry to those using babies and wives and mothers; cry to those who store weapons in mosques, ambulances, hospitals and private homes. Cry to those launching deadly rockets from the backyards of kindergartens and schools. Cry to the heartless men who love death, and however many of their troops or civilians die, consider themselves victorious as long as they can keep on firing rockets at our women and children. "Save your sympathy for the mothers and sisters and girlfriends of our young soldiers who would rather be sitting in study halls learning Torah, but have no choice but to risk their precious lives full of hope, goodness and endless potential, to wipe out the cancerous terrorist cells that threaten their people and all mankind. Make your choice, and save your tears. "That terrorists have been unsuccessful in killing more of our women and children is due to our army, God and prayers, not to any lack of motivation or intention on their part. If you hide behind your baby to shoot at my baby, you are responsible for getting children killed. You and you alone." -Naomi Ragen, US-born novelist and playwright living in Jerusalem | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 789 Registered: 1-2006 |
The failure to report that men were killed struck me as a clue. The "collapse" hours after the bomb fell was another clue. The truth is out there. http://confederateyankee.mu.nu/archives/188515.php Katherine Shrader and Kathy Gannon of AP make the strike and its effect seem immediate: A three-story house on the outskirts of Qana was leveled when a missile crashed into it at 1 a.m. Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead. It was worst single strike since Israel's campaign in Lebanon began on July 12 when Hezbollah militants crossed the border into Israel and abducted two soldiers. But we know that the immediacy of the collapse given in this timeline to be a false construct. Many hours before this AP story was released, the IDF had already reported that the building did not collapse until 8 A.M. Shrader and Gannon did not question the rather unique makeup of the families hardest hit in the attack (my bold): Israel suspended air attacks on south Lebanon for 48 hours starting early Monday in the face of widespread outrage over an airstrike on a house that killed 56 Lebanese, almost all of them women and children. [jump to page 2] Red Cross officials said 56 were killed and police said 34 children and 12 adult women were among the dead. [snip] In Qana, workers pulled dirt-covered bodies of young boys and girls dressed in the shorts and T-shirts they had been sleeping in out of the mangled wreckage of the building. Bodies were carried in blankets. Two extended families, the Shalhoubs and the Hashems, had gathered in the house for shelter from another night of Israeli bombardment in the border area when the strike brought the building down. "I was so afraid. There was dirt and rocks and I couldn't see. Everything was black," said 13-year-old Noor Hashem, who survived, although her five siblings did not. She was pulled out of the ruins by her uncle, whose wife and five children also died. 34 children. 12 adult women. Not a single adult male officially listed among them. How strangely asexual these "civilian" families seem to be. T | ||
| kathleen Citizen Username: Symbolic Post Number: 611 Registered: 3-2005 |
You know, I was going to respond with some facts in this thread (like it is pragmatists and military strategists who've been arguing that an immediate ceasefire would be in Israel's interests, not absolutists and political ideologues) but joel dranove has made it so disgusting -- really truly digusting, as he used to in the education threads with his abiding bigotry -- I just don't want to be here at all. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 790 Registered: 1-2006 |
Really? Hmmm. I am shocked, shocked that there is intolerance on this thread. Stating facts, and referring to others with facts at hand, and opinions of their own, is what freedom of speech is about. For some of us. Good-bye Kathy. jd | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 483 Registered: 8-2004 |
Paul, you have been making statements like this: "On a general level, it's pretty clear that the targets that have been bombed in Lebanon have had little impact on Hezbollah's military capability" without any reference to fact or analysis of the military effects of the fighting, and without answering questions of how you can possibly reach such judgements. Also like this: "the continued bombing and ground war, that will only weaken Israel's security " again without any reference to military facts on the ground. And then you cite Friedman (your quote, again): "Friedman is saying that Hezbollah can't be destroyed by bombing " Again, Friedman says no such thing. "[C]an't be wiped out at a price that Israel, or America's Arab allies, can sustain -- if at all" means "maybe they CAN be destroyed, but shouldn't be in any case because of the political fallout". Your determination to discount the possibility of any military achievement regardless of political implications leads you misstate Friedman's strategic comment into a narrower one. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 677 Registered: 2-2003 |
Hi Gordon, I'm happy to discuss the issues you raise in your 5:35 pm post, but first I'd like to resolve the personal matter which you raised earlier (regarding your question about the real reasons for my opinions) for which I asked you to provide some examples. In case you've forgotten, here's the key section of that earlier post: (my bold and italics) Gordon in your 5:35 pm reply you fail to provide any additional texts that I've posted as I requested so I could respond to what you alleged. Is this your way of retracting your original assertion? Or should I wait a little longer for you to provide the additional texts (plural) that you spoke of in your earlier post? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12284 Registered: 5-2001 |
Gordon, I think the fact that Hezbollah is still chucking rockets into Northern Israel and started using longer range weapons over the weekend is a pretty good indication that the bombing campaign has been less than an unqualified success. At this point Hezbollah hasn't used their longer range guided missles, the ones that can reach Tel Aviv, which may be an indication that the Israeli Air Force has found them or it may just be that Hezbollah is saving them for some sort of warped finale like a demented fireworks display. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 484 Registered: 8-2004 |
Paul, the only text you've provided that I've seen you misread in this fashion was the Friedman bit you provide. Bob, we don't really know a lot about what the IDF is trying to do. They may be more interested in ripping up fortifications and observation posts, killing personnel, preventing the massing of rockets into salvos, cutting off supply lines, etc. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1979 Registered: 6-2003  |
Is Joel one of these 9/11 conspiracy theorists as well? After all, the towers didn't fall right away, so the deaths couldn't have been caused by the planes, right? Besides, weren't the people inside the buildings actually at fault? | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2629 Registered: 3-2003 |
"At this point Hezbollah hasn't used their longer range guided missles, the ones that can reach Tel Aviv, which may be an indication that the Israeli Air Force has found them..." According to Haaretz, the IDF has taken out two thirds of the long-range artillery, but fears resupply from Syria. Interestingly, some recent barrages into northern Israel have only been mortars. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2630 Registered: 3-2003 |
"...but first I'd like to resolve the personal matter which you raised earlier (regarding your question about the real reasons for my opinions)..." Paul always takes it personally when people find his views inconsistent. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 679 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gordon, So you've retracted your original statement? As far as your two quotes of me: I think this statement has been borne out. Hezbollah has continued to launch its rockets, the highest IDF body count of Hezbollah fighters I've seen is about 100 to 200, and I'm not aware of the IDF taking more than a handful of Hezbollah prisoners. The only reports of IDF seizures of Hezbollah arms caches, have not added up to much. You've truncated this in such a way that the context has been obscured. Please send the full quote and I'll comment. I disagree with your interpretation of Friedman's statement. I think it's pretty clear he's saying that Israel can't destroy Hezbollah militarily. Your argument only holds on a theoretical level. But Friedman is saying that in the real world, Israel cannot destroy Hezbollah because the price would be too high. Whether the price is military or political or both doesn't matter. In any case, he's saying Israel cannot destroy Hezbollah militarily. If that's not good enough for you, later Friedman says If you accept that "a knockout blow" is a metaphor for destroying the other side, he is clearing saying that Israel cannot destroy Hezbollah and Hezbollah cannot destroy Israel. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12285 Registered: 5-2001 |
See www.jpost.com. Israel is planning to, maybe has started, a major ground offensive with three brigades moving into South Lebanon with the apparent intention of driving Hezbollah all the way back to the Latani River. Should be interesting. I imagine they will make it to the Litani, but most of the Hezbollah fighters will fade into the community before they get there. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 485 Registered: 8-2004 |
No, Paul, I still think your conclusions of military success and possibilities are running well ahead of the information you'd need to arrive at them. Especially when you keep repeating them as you've done here -- I've read that Hezbollah has maybe a thousand properly trained men, so if the IDF has killed the right 100-200 they've done a lot. I'm prepared to listen to Thomas Friedman talk about the balance between military gains and political costs, since he seems willing to admit that maybe some military gains are possible. You aren't, so I don't see what's gained by the repetition of your view that "this isn't worth the price", since you'll say that regardless of what we hear on the military front. A discussion of why you rule out any military option would be more useful, since that would go to the real heart of your opinions. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 486 Registered: 8-2004 |
Bob, Hezbollah would surely have the option of fading to the background, but at the cost of their various prepared positions, maybe their munitions, and hopefully some prestige. All that gear plays a role in their ability to hold out in fighting like we've seen in the past few weeks. Also, they've profited from the myth that they drove the IDF out, and a demonstration that the IDF can return whenever it likes might be a useful corrective. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12289 Registered: 5-2001 |
I think Hezbollah will fight as long as they can short of redoing Custer's Last Stand. Then they will fadeaway into the night, which is a military tactic as old as warfare. What rockets they have will be shot off before they withdraw and I think they are pretty sure that they can get resupplied if not next month, next year. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 487 Registered: 8-2004 |
"they are pretty sure that they can get resupplied if not next month, next year." Actually, that might be one strategic goal of this: deplete that inventory, then get the world to watch the trail from Damascus and Tehran. Done seriously, that could bring a lot of clarity to world perception of what those countries are about. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 681 Registered: 2-2003 |
Wise advice from Republican Senator Chuck Hagel: Hagel Floor Statement on the Current Situation in the Middle East, July 31, 2006 http://hagel.senate.gov/index.cfm?FuseAction=PressReleases.Detail&PressRelease_i d=219463&Month=7&Year=2006 | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 793 Registered: 1-2006 |
The madness of press and media manipulation of the facts: http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2006/07/milking-it.html | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2631 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Israel is planning to, maybe has started, a major ground offensive with three brigades moving into South Lebanon with the apparent intention of driving Hezbollah all the way back to the Latani River." Jeez BobK, the press reported a call-up of up to thirty thousand troops several days ago, and Israel has been talking about a push-back to the Litani river almost since this thing began. | ||
| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 236 Registered: 1-2005 |
It would have been better for everyone, including the Lebanese, had Israel gone to the full court press from the beginning. Stop the rockets as quickly as possible, declare victory, then negotiate about the future. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12290 Registered: 5-2001 |
Jeez JC, last week the Israeli government was talking about relying on airpower and limiting their incursions to a couple of miles inside the border. I read that the call up of the reserves had been scaled back to only the staff officers, although I don't know if that is true or not. The three brigades moving into Lebanon are active duty and considered "elite units". A brigade is usually somewhere between 2,500 to 5,000 troops in most armies. Eric I agree. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2632 Registered: 3-2003 |
Oh, I don't know Wertheim. You think maybe the US should have gone into Afghanistan without bombing it all to hell first? | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 682 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gordon, I never ruled out any military option. Israel was attacked and had a right to respond militarily. But from the very beginning, I've said that the option of massive bombing of Lebanon would make Hezbollah and radical Islam stronger, which is what has happened. The bombing of Lebanon has united most of the Lebanese population behind Hezbollah as "the resistance" against Israel, which means that further military action against Hezbollah -- from the air or on the ground -- will only further strengthen support for Hezbollah even if it suffers major battleground losses. Hezbollah's influence in the Lebanese Government has already increased and with continued Israeli bombing and military action, it's entirely possible that the next Lebanese democratic elections could bring Hezbollah into power, as happened with Hamas. An immediate cease-fire to be followed by an international effort to implement Resolution 1559 is the best option now for both Israel and Lebanon. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2633 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Jeez JC, last week the Israeli government was talking about relying on airpower and limiting their incursions to a couple of miles inside the border." Temporarily, perhaps, but Israel has said from the beginning that the Litani was its goal. So the reiteration of that goal should not surprise you now. (Unless you believe what you read in news sources determined to depict an Israeli failure in the making.) "The three brigades moving into Lebanon are active duty and considered "elite units". A brigade is usually somewhere between 2,500 to 5,000 troops in most armies." So that's a third to a half of the additional troops Israel can field. You would prefer they all be sent in at once? | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12291 Registered: 5-2001 |
JC, the JPost is depicting an Israeli failure in the makeing? Don't think so. http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1153292045787&pagename=JPost%2FJPArti cle%2FShowFull Joel, I always thought that guy didn't look like a typical aid worker. Still the bodies are real. | ||
| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 237 Registered: 1-2005 |
JC: The U.S. precision bombed the hell out of the Taliban's conventional front line positions and then had a full, army of Afghans sweep in and take over the country. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 488 Registered: 8-2004 |
Recall that in its early days people wondered if the IDF would go on to Syria or Iran, and there were rumblings that an IDF move too deep in the Bekaa Valley would bring in the Syrians. I think they've managed tensions down from that point, which reduces the chances of accidental warfare with the Syrians and (hopefully) clarifies that any shooting by the Syrians is their own idea and not the IDF's. They've also frightened (hopefully) most of the civilians north of the Litani, which should reduce civilian casualties (and has certainly created a lot of human misery). In short, they've done a lot that has operated to narrow this thing to IDF vs Hezbollah, which would be exactly what Hezbollah does not want. Whether that was the plan is another thing entirely. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 795 Registered: 1-2006 |
More politics, from ynet: Lebanon is planning to take Israel to the International Criminal Court for war crimes. I hope this happens. It will bring the Qana ruse to light. Maybe we'll even find out where the bodies of the other 29 alleged victims are. "Lebanon: We will sue Israel in Hague," from Ynet News, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist: Lebanon is planning to file a lawsuit against Israel in the International Criminal Court. Tuesday, Lebanese Minister of Justice Charles Rizk made a written petition to the Lebanese Prime Minister, Fouad Siniora, asking him to bring up the issue in the next meeting of the Lebanese cabinet, so that the prime minister will be able to collect witnesses in preparation before filing of the complaint. The minister wrote to the prime minister: "The repeated Israeli attacks on Lebanon, on its infrastructure, its citizens, women and children, since July 12 are a grave breech of international law and international agreements. As such, they clearly constitute war crimes and crimes against humanity." "In preparation for the pursuit of the Israeli enemy in the relevant international courts, and in a bid to punish these crimes and to bring them to justice, the Lebanese government must prepare a comprehensive case that will include and detail all the attacks and crimes committed. This is with the intent that Israel pay restitution on all the physical and moral damages that she caused Lebanon and her citizens," he wrote.... In addition, Minister Rizk expressed his regret that the "Qana massacre did not horrify the conscience and did not bring about a UN decision for a ceasefire. Which means, "Hizballah is on the ropes. We were hoping to buy some time." The Red Cross published that 28 corpses were evacuated from Qana, 19 of which were children. The report clashes with the Lebanese report that 57 people were killed. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1980 Registered: 6-2003 |
Still, at the end of the day, Israel cannot achieve peace simply by terrorizing its neighbors. For each innocent victim there will be survivors wanting to take revenge. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1820 Registered: 9-2004 |
Still, at the end of the day, Israel cannot achieve peace simply by terrorizing its neighbors. For each innocent victim there will be survivors wanting to take revenge. DITTO! “The damage may already be done in Lebanon, where more than 600 people have been killed in the conflict, according to the country's health minister. A recent poll taken in Lebanon, where many are opposed to Hezbollah, showed 96 percent of Shiites supported the abduction of the two Israeli soldiers, an action that triggered Israel's reprisal attacks. More tellingly, 73 percent of Sunnis and 54 percent of Christians also approved of the abductions.” By Ned Warwick The Philadelphia Inquirer Experts: Hezbollah Praised Among Arabs as Israel Cites Battle Successes By Meredith Buel Washington "Israel has sharply increased its ground campaign against Hezbollah guerrillas in southern Lebanon, in an effort to push the militants back from the border before a cease-fire is declared. Israeli military leaders say Hezbollah has been severely weakened by the fighting, but some Middle East analysts say the group's popularity is increasing in the Arab world." Tide of Arab Opinion Turns to Support for Hezbollah By NEIL MacFARQUHAR Published: July 28, 2006 Initially, Arab governments criticized Hezbollah for recklessly provoking a war. Now, opinion across the Arab world has changed. ******************************************** So much for achieving peace when the very same people who were opposed Hezbollah are now supporting them. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 683 Registered: 2-2003 |
Another example of how the IDF bombing campaign is turning Lebanese moderates into Hezbollah supporters and undermining Israeli security:
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| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3658 Registered: 5-2001  |
The U.N. is demanding an immediate IDF/Hezbollah cease-fire. Hezbollah must have taken several years to fortify southern Lebanon, and since everybody had a fair idea of what kind and quantity of armament they had, it was hardly a secret endeavor. Did the U.N. -- or anyone else -- ever make any effort to draw more attention to this or do anything about it? I know this is a bit of a "spilled milk" complaint, but the IDF would not be attempting to destroy so many Hezbollah assets if their accumulation had been prevented in the first place. A bunch of crazies who want to kill you with thrown stones don't pose nearly as big a problem as a bunch of crazies who want to kill you and have huge stockpiles of missiles and guns. Aren't there some lessons we can learn here... and shouldn't we have learned them long before this? | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 799 Registered: 1-2006 |
They are not crazy, they are Islamists, who want to convert Lebanon into a sharia state, and exterminate the Jews. As to how things are going in London, and Brooklyn, kindly read the following, readers: 'Potentially incendiary' at the Brooklyn Public Library [Posted 9:18 AM by Roger Kimball] This spring, in my capacity as publisher of Encounter Books, I had the honor to publish Melanie Phillips's book Londonistan, a brilliant, but also harrowing, look at the ways in which radical Islam has established itself in England. The book carries endorsements from such well respected experts on the subject as Natan Sharansky, Daniel Pipes, and Steve Emerson. It has been widely reviewed here and in England, to admiring praise from those (like me) who regard radical Islam as a terrible threat, and to sometime hysterical consternation from those who believe that Islam is a religion of peace or who at least cannot bear the spectacle of anyone actually defending Western civilization (that's capitalist, Christian civilization) against its enemies. Last week it was the Communists, this week it is the mullahs: the bottom line is that in the battle of Us against Them, We are always to blame. For those in doubt about how deeply ingrained the latter sentiment is in the institutional life of our culture, I offer the following communication from Wayne Roylance, Adult Selection Coordinator at Brooklyn Public Library in New York. A reader had asked that the Library purchase Londonistan. He received this reply from Mr. Roylance: Thank you for your question. Normally, the library doesn't add a nonfiction title to the collection (and especially one that is potentially incendiary) unless a review from a trusted source (professional journals) can be found. Unfortunately, we have not found such a review for Londonistan. Therefore, at this time, the library will not be adding Londonistan to the collection. Very high-minded of you, Wayne, to forbear adding "potentially incendiary" stuff to the pristine shelves of the Brooklyn Public Library. But wait, what counts as "potentially incendiary" to the guardians of the public purse at The New York Public Library? We know that Londonsitan counts, never mind that the historian Daniel Johnson, writing in Commentary, said that "Anyone who cares about Britain, or indeed about the survival of Judeo-Christian civilization, should read Melanie Phillips's brave and disturbing book." But what about some of the Library's other recent acquisitions? Consider Empire by the Duke University professor Michael Hardt and the Italian terrorist Antonio Negri. Apparently that book is not "potentially incendiary," though it argues that "militancy today is a positive, constructive, and innovative activity." Or how about Al Franken's book Lies (and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them): A Fair and Balanced Look at the Right? Brooklyn readers can find that little bijou on the shelves of their public library. They can also find, to move from the political to the pornographic, Toni Bentley's paean to sodomy, The Surrender: An Erotic Memoir. That, too, is available to readers at the Brooklyn Library. (Nor does Bentley's book represent an aberration for Brooklyn's Selection Committee: readers can also edify themselves with Ron Jeremy: the long hard life of a porn star or, moving back to politics, From Oslo to Iraq and the Road Map by the late Edward W. Said, the left-wing Columbia professor PLO sympathizer.) According to the Brooklyn Public Library's website, "Contemporary materials representing various points of view . . . including materials that reflect current conditions, trends, and controversies" are among those that the Library seeks to acquire--except, as Mr. Roylance has demonstrated, "contemporary materials" that might be regarded as "potentially incendiary" by the Left. I do not happen to live in Brooklyn. If I did, I might wonder about how my local public library chose to spend my tax dollars. Melanie Phillips has a website, which is informational and factually discomforting. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 721 Registered: 5-2001 |
So, where's the review from the trusted source? That seems to be the major point, and you haven't provided one. So big deal. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 803 Registered: 1-2006 |
Natan Sharansky, for one, Steve Emerson, Daniel Pipes, for starters. I read reviews posted by her on her website. Perhaps you should read them, then question why her book is not in a library in Brooklyn. Or, just read the following analysis of the Qana bombing mystery. Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were staged By Reuven Koret July 31, 2006 It was to be a perfect Hollywood ending for Hezbollah. Just as the Israeli bombing of the village of Qana in 1996 brought a premature end to Israel's Operation "Grapes of Wrath," so too a sequel of Qana II could change, once and for all, the direction of Israel's current summer blockbuster, "Change of Direction." Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases. The setting was also perfect: Kana was again being used as a primary site for launching rockets against Israeli cities. The IDF reported that more than 150 rockets had been launched from Qana and its vicinity at Israeli civilians, wreaking destruction in Kiryat Shmona, Maalot, Nahariya and Haifa. It was only a matter of time before the Israeli Air Force would come for a visit, using pinpoint targeting of the sites used to launch rockets, Hezbollah logistical centers and weapon storage facilities. On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed. Brent Sadler of CNN reports that the Israeli ordnance did not even hit the building but landed "20 or 30 meters" from the structure. There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am. Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear." Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I'm saying this very carefully, because at this time I don't have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added. The army's only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later. "It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said. Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children. There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike. Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning? National Public Radio's correspondent reported that residents of that building had left and the victims were non-residents who chose to shelter in the building that night. They were "too poor" to leave the down, one resident told CNN's Wedeman. Who were these people? What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did, in droves. While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there. Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted. There was little blood, CNN's Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping -- sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building. Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead. But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. While medical examination clearly is called for to arrive at a definitive dating and cause of their deaths, they do not appear to have died hours before. The bodies looked like they had been dead for days. Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting -- reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue -- place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack. The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage -- from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on -- have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood." There is increasing evidence that the Kana sequel is another episode in this genre, a variety which might be called Hezbollywood. The Hezbollah have evidently learned their craft well. The current suspension of Israeli military air activity is supposedly intended, among other things, to be used for the investigation of what really happened at Qana. It is to be hoped that there are real journalists on the scene, and unbiased medical examiners, who will have the courage and intelligence to sort out the anomalies and contradictions, and get to the buried truth of what happened. There is no shortage of victims in Lebanon and Israel these days. From this vantage point, at this time, it looks like in the case of Qana, the world's media was duped in a cruel and colossal hoax by a terror organization that knows no moral bounds in its exploitation of suffering and anti-Israel hatred. But, as usual, the only party expected to pay the full price will be Israelis. Yes, it would be a Hollywood ending for it all to end in Qana, exactly as it did a decade ago. But perfect endings, and perfect crimes, are rarely pulled off in real life. Israelis will not be able to investigate this claim directly. The question remains whether honest men and women of other nationalities will let this likely lie stand or press for the revelation of the improbable and inconvenient truth. |
