| Author | Message | ||
     tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4620 Registered: 12-2001  |
Anon, I agree except you left out the rest. "...they hate Israel because it is part of the West [on land they regard as Muslim]." | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5352 Registered: 9-2001  |
"Oh never mind." ...Oh, never mind what "S"? So, if Israel were to be eliminated, is this all anyone has to say? Huh? Listen, while we're at it, why do so many Libs never seem to be able to answer a direct question? | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2643 Registered: 3-2003 |
Tjohn: "I agree except you left out the rest. "...they hate Israel because it is part of the West [on land they regard as Muslim]."" Sorry, why do you care that they regard it as Muslim? I regard their sentiment as an expression of explicit racism. Don't you? Maybe this excerpt from a Nicholas Kristoff article in the NYT (posted by Joel in another thread) gets the point across better: When the Arab men in military uniforms caught Noura Moussa and raped her the other day, they took the trouble to explain themselves. You see, Muslims may emigrate in numbers to the west, and may bomb civilians who support western goals in "Muslim lands," and may attempt to impose Islamic restrictions on what westerners say, do, and write in "their own" lands. And Arab Muslims may dominate African countries, fight with Christians and animists in Sudan, employ janjaweed militias to ethnically cleanse the Fur from their own historic real estate, and subject Africans to sharia wherever Muslims prevail. But westerners--and especially Jews--may not rule a multi-ethnic country the size of New Jewsey in "Muslim lands." Do Muslims want to claim a couple of big, historically important countries for Islam? OK. Saudi Arabia, which has Mecca and Medina in it, and oil to boot--all theirs. And they can have Iran, center of Shia Islam. Beyond that, there are countries with many Muslims in them. But there is no such thing as "Muslim lands," any more than-- apart from Rome and maybe a couple of small European countries--there's any such thing as "Christian lands." | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2645 Registered: 3-2003 |
From The Weekly Standard: Rumors of War | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12316 Registered: 5-2001 |
There is a post around here someplace (I am finding it more and more difficult to keep track) that the Lebanese equivalent of the National Council of Churches, including Christian, Druse and Sunnis, had a meeting and issued a statement in support for Hezbollah. Only time will tell if the war strengthens or weakens Hezbollah as a political movement. I don't think that there is any doubt that their military side is being weakened by Israel. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3799 Registered: 3-2004  |
Hezbollah may become weakened, and Lebanon be reduced to rubble. However, Bob K, do you really think that radical Islam has been weakened? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1829 Registered: 9-2004  |
Listen up Blair, all the right things are already in place... And, the only way to get a cease-fire worth anything is to keep the bombs flowing and the troops marching at the Hezbollah and Lebanese until they stop returning fire, say uncle, or are all dead! WOW! That's a pretty sick statement. So its OK to kill all the Lebanese? ajc, You are no better in your thinking than that pathetic leader of Hezbollah, Nasrallah. I can see going after Hezbollah fighters, but Lebanese citizens? How many innocent lives have to be eliminated to satisfy you? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1830 Registered: 9-2004 |
Why is Israel bombing the Christian Villages? They have been heavily opposed to Hezbollah. Israel Intensifies Bombardment in Lebanon Airstrikes Kill at Least 5 in Lebanon; At Least 6 Israeli Soldiers, 1 Civilian Dead By Jonathan Finer, Edward Cody and Debbi Wilgoren Washington Post Foreign Service Friday, August 4, 2006; 8:28 AM http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/04/AR2006080400307. html “In the Maronite Christian suburbs north of Beirut, where opposition to Hezbollah has been strongest, warplanes destroyed several bridges on the main road, disrupting the transport of relief supplies from the port of Tripoli to refugee centers around the country. Four civilians were killed and 10 were wounded by the bombs, Lebanese media reported. Israeli officials have described the bombings as a campaign to prevent movement of Hezbollah munitions and supplies.” Israel bombs Lebanon bridges, army takes casualties By Tom Perry http://thestar.com.my/news/nastory.asp?file=/2006/8/4/worldupdates/2006-08-04T14 4145Z_01_NOOTR_RTRJONC_0_-262297-14&sec=Worldupdates BEIRUT (Reuters) - Waves of Israeli air strikes destroyed three highway bridges north of Beirut on Friday, forcing U.N. relief agencies to cancel several convoys of aid for the 900,000 people displaced by the conflict. The Israeli air force's bombing of bridges in the Christian heartlands north of the capital cut off the main coastal highway to Syria. "It's really a major setback because we used this highway to move staff and supplies into the country," said Astrid van Genderen Stort of the U.N. refugee agency UNHCR. "If we don't have new material coming in, we will basically be paralysed." | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 830 Registered: 1-2006 |
Resupply of weapons, rockets and new fodder from Syria is interrupted. Note the calls for ceasefire from Iran, coupled with additional reminder that Israel must be destroyed. Where is the Lebanese army? It hasn't lifted a finger to stop the hizzies at all, ever. Israel is showing restraint, and war is hell. Hizzy rockets killed Israeli Arabs yesterday. Any comments on that? jd | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15491 Registered: 10-2001  |
Nope. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 834 Registered: 1-2006 |
From the confederateyankee X-files, about the mortician and the bodies in Qada: Also from you can't make this up files of jd: Shadi Business? When I saw Dan Reihl's post noting that refrigerated trucks came from Tyre before the media arrived after daybreak, I thought that the trucks were suspicious. Now IsrealInsider (h/t A.J. Strata) is reporting that the Lebanese rescue worker known by many simply as "Green Helmet" that appeared in so many of photos brandishing a dead toddler by the neck, is a man named Abu Shadi. In the days leading up to the Israeli attack on Qana, Abu Shadi, a mortician for the hospital in Tyre, had been driving refrigerated trucks packed with dead bodies. Could it be another man named Abu Shadi? Perhaps. Another Shadi with a certified-by-the-media truckload of corpses? Not very likely. The odd and unanswerable continue to add up in Qana. go to the original form links, or ignore media manipulation, again | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1831 Registered: 9-2004 |
Gee jd, Sounds like a scene from the X-Files.  For Israel, innocent civilians are fair game Peter Bouckaert International Herald Tribune Published: August 3, 2006 “TYRE, Lebanon The voice of Mohammed Shalhoub, 61, a farmer from Qana, still quivers with shock and exhaustion. He was in a basement shelter with more than 60 relatives when two Israeli bombs hit, killing at least 28, including 16 children. As I interview him in hospital, relatives arrive with more news of the victims. A woman starts screaming as she looks at the pictures of the dead and Mohammed's eyes well up with tears. But his voice turns cold with impotent fury when I ask if there were Hezbollah fighters near the home when the bombs fell. "If the Israelis really saw the rocket launcher, where did it go?" he asks. "We showed Israel our dead; why don't the Israelis show us the rocket launchers?" Israel says the fault for the massive civilian death toll lies with Hezbollah, claiming its fighters are hiding weapons inside civilian homes and firing them from civilian areas. But even if the Israeli forces could show evidence of Hezbollah activity in some civilian areas, it could not justify the extensive use of indiscriminate force that has cost so many lives.” http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/08/03/opinion/edbouck.php | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1832 Registered: 9-2004 |
And here are voices from 2 sides of this war…Lebanon & Israel: Voices: The cost of conflict Israelis and Lebanese describe living in conflict. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/talking_point/5242942.stm Beirut resident, Hibah Osman I'm a doctor for students and staff at the American University and also for external patients. When I finish my regular work, I go with a team of doctors, nurses, medical students and pharmacists to do relief work. Most of the displaced are either from the south of the country or from southern Beirut. They live in classrooms, underground shopping centres, movie theatres. And they've been living like this since it began more than three weeks ago. We see pregnant women, children, the elderly. These places are not set up for this; hundreds of people sharing a couple of bathrooms. It's very hot, there's no privacy. And all this in a conservative culture. It's very difficult. A quarter of the population has been displaced - we're talking huge numbers. People don't know if they have a home to go back to There are injuries. We have families boiling water on a small gas stove in the middle of a classroom with little children running around. I saw a toddler with second degree burns on her legs where the water tipped over her. The elderly have heart failure and diabetes; chronic diseases they need medication for. They need to be on diets appropriate for their condition and they don't have either. I think they are still in shock. You see a lot of depression, anxiety. Many have trouble sleeping. Many don't know if they have a home to go back to. Most of these people are poor. They don't have the resources to help them start over with. One of the very nice things about this is that people who want to help have been incredible. I have phone calls every day from people wanting to know how to help. Tivon resident, Allon Adir Allon Adir lives in Tivon, northern Israel My town is a quiet place in lower Galilee. It sits in the middle of fields now yellow with summer. It's half way between Haifa and Nazareth. My grandparents came here when they escaped from Nazi Germany in the 1930s. But last week we were hit by a rocket from Hezbollah. I had been sitting in the garden with a friend a couple of hours earlier. One of the three soldiers killed a couple of days ago was from Tivon. There was no siren, we just heard a loud explosion. It didn't hit any buildings. It landed in a small wood in the middle of town, very close to an old people's home. We've long suspected they've had rockets that could hit Haifa, but this was a very big surprise. There is no reason they would want to hit Tivon. I am sure they didn't aim at us. Everyone knows everyone here. One of the three soldiers killed a couple of days ago was from Tivon. I know his father well. At home, I don't have a shelter. I cycle a lot and if the sirens go off here I put my bicycle helmet on and I hide under the table! People have left Tivon but I'm staying. I feel it is still safe and I like my town very much. When they built Tivon they didn't know it was on top of a famous Jewish city from Roman times. One of the first books of the Talmud, the Mishna, was written here. What is happening is a great shame. Of our neighbours in the Arab countries, the Lebanese are the closest in mentality to Israel that I know. They have a Western outlook. Of all the people I think there is the greatest potential for friendliness with the Lebanese. ************************************ On BOTH sides (Israel & Lebanon) the innocents are the victims and they are the ones left suffering. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 687 Registered: 2-2003 |
Today in Baghdad. Reports range from "more than 100,000" to "hundreds of thousands." And repeated throughout the Middle East. More evidence that the bombing of Lebanon is making Hezbollah stronger and the moderates weaker.  | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 835 Registered: 1-2006 |
The "street" will protest at the drop of a dime. If a million protested it is one tenth of one percent of the street. A pretty paltry showing. So, you do the math, and be peaceful. jd | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 836 Registered: 1-2006 |
Iran it the enemy. It is peaceful, as you know. It is at war with us. jd LONDON (AFP) - Iran will supply Hezbollah with surface-to-air missile systems in the coming months, boosting the guerrillas’ defences against Israeli aircraft, according to a report by specialist magazine Jane’s Defence Weekly, citing unnamed Western diplomatic sources. In a meeting, held late last month, the Lebanese Shiite Muslim militia called on Tehran to “accelerate and extend the scope of weapon shipments from Iran to the Islamic Resistance, particularly advanced missiles against ground and air targets.” Hezbollah’s representatives pressed for “an array of more advanced weaponry, including more advanced SAM (surface-to-air missile) systems,” Jane’s said Friday. “Iranian authorities conveyed a message to the Hezbollah leadership that their forces would continue to receive a steady supply of weapons systems,”it added. “The details coming from the meeting reveal that they are about ensuring a constant supply of weapons to support Islamic Resistance operations against Israel,” said Robin Hughes, the magazine’s Middle East Editor. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5355 Registered: 9-2001 |
"I can see going after Hezbollah fighters, but Lebanese citizens? How many innocent lives have to be eliminated to satisfy you?" Phenixrising... Give me a break pal! No decent person wants to see the death and destruction that is going on in the world today. And, it's a sad and unfortunate fact, but innocent lives are lost on both sides everyday in any war. However, without showing any form of resistance to the Hezbollah, the Lebanese are, IMHO, no better than they are. Would any of us stand for allowing an organization like the Hezbollah fighters to set up shop in America? No way! So, why should the Lebanese allow it either? Listen, we're all going to die someday anyway, so it really comes down to how we want to die. I'd rather die fighting for freedom than running away from my own fears of standing up for what is right... Killing innocent Jews is what this war is all about, NOT the killing of the Lebanese who as a people have done little to nothing for years on end to rid their country of these radical Hezbollah murderers. The way it’s beginning to look, if all Americans don’t get it together soon, we’ll be seeing the same thing over here before to much longer. We must take a united stand against all radical threats anywhere in the world. The writing is on the wall. Diplomacy has been tried unsuccessfully for too long, and no one can negotiate with terrorist anyway. Once anyone of these radical leaders gets their hands on the bomb, you can bet they will use it against any of us non-Muslim nations in a heart beat... Then what will you have to say about innocent lives being lost when it our own? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4624 Registered: 12-2001 |
"Diplomacy has been tried unsuccessfully for too long" Darn tootin'. Our Dear Leader GWB spent at least 27 seconds on diplomacy during the last six years and look where it got us. | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5357 Registered: 9-2001 |
...take a shower tj! Listen, I'm not talking about Bush. We're talking about the UN pal... This is a world wide problem. Do you really think President Bush has any control on what happens in the rest of the world? Get with the program. By now you should know who calls the shots in how things go in the war on terror! Right Paul?  | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15492 Registered: 10-2001 |
Dearest Artruo, Why can't you just send some repo guys over there to free the soldiers and end everything? Send over the Fist City Boys or the Knuckle Junction Gang. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4625 Registered: 12-2001 |
George Bush has made the United States more diplomatically isolated than ever. Now, with the fighting in Lebanon, we find ourselves with limited diplomatic options. Some like to pretend we can afford to be diplomatically isolated, but it isn't so. It is vitally important that the fighting in Lebanon not become a case of the United States and Israel versus the rest of the world. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1833 Registered: 9-2004 |
Killing innocent Jews is what this war is all about, NOT the killing of the Lebanese who as a people have done little to nothing for years on end to rid their country of these radical Hezbollah murderers. Holy IGNORANCE! Do you really mean that? Read up my pal and educate yourself on Lebanon. And PLEASE DO NOT LABEL ALL CITIZENS of this country as sympathizing with Hezbollah. The Christians (which their town was BOMB today) are not supporters of this group. Do THEY deserve to die? BTW… did you read the above post from the 2 sides? One from a young doctor living in Lebanon, another a resident Israeli man. Thank God they don't have your way of thinking. At least from their side there's some reason to hope that one day both sides can live in peace. A Jewish life is worth as much as a Lebonese life! | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1303 Registered: 4-2006 |
" Oh the protestants hate the catholics, catholics hate the protestants, and the hindus hate the muslims, and everybody hates the jews." -Tom Lehrer " National Brotherhood Week" latency, latency, latency, people.  | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5359 Registered: 9-2001 |
"...free the soldiers and end everything?" Sorry "S", it's too late for that. Yes, we need to get them back, but that doesn't end it. The only way this should end is after Israel brings both the Hezbollah AND Lebanon down to their knees. It's hard to understand how some of you just don't get it. There are three nations who are openly supporting terror; Iran, Syria, and Lebanon. This is not acceptable and the world has to hold these countries accountable. I'm not sure if the US can go it all alone, however, if Hezbollah bombs TEL AVIV, all bets are off and I just may have to go over there myself... BTW, you bet I mean it Phenixrising! | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 6844 Registered: 12-2001  |
The problem, as laid out well today on the radio is that Hezbollah has more money than the gov't. As a result the poorest of the Lebanese turn to Hezbollah for relief that the gov't cannot provide. They have built hospitals, schools, and are the provider of what should be gov't services. Because of that the citizenry is more inclined to see Hezbollah as THE state within the state. So they have hundreds and hundreds of rockets in their pockets and lob them where ever they want, and quite a sizeable segment of the population backs them because at one point or other Hezbollah helped them individually. It is one very hard thing for me to wrap my head around, but it would appear that the Lebanese Government is basically impotent and Hezbollah is running the show. Or is providing troops on the ground for Syria and Iran. I suppose one could argue, Art, that if Bill Gates suddenly turned evil, but at the same time took care of all the poorest people in the US with medicine, education, housing, food, and safety (assuming that Canada and Mexico were behind some assault on the US) then all of America wouldn't necessarily stand up to Gates. He might well have the allegience of a sizeable portion of the populace. I don't understand it. The hatred in the world. Even in this town as was experienced by my son and me just swimming. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1311 Registered: 4-2006 |
Robert Pape, professor at the University of Chicago, in yesterday's NY Times: Hizbollah can be compared to " the multidimensional American civil-rights movement of the 1960s". Rep. John Dingell: " I don't take sides for or against Hizbollah". Famed actor, Mel Gibson : " Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world." Those who can, think, those who can't, practice moronic equivalency between those who target and kill civilians deliberately in violation of international conventions and protocols, and a country like Israel that has killed by accident and because terrorists position themselves among civilians. Nasrallah should be tried for war crimes. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2653 Registered: 3-2003 |
"It is one very hard thing for me to wrap my head around, but it would appear that the Lebanese Government is basically impotent and Hezbollah is running the show. Or is providing troops on the ground for Syria and Iran." Yeah, that's the lowdown. And Israel has been watching Hizzy's arms build-up in S. Lebanon ever since the IDF withdrew to internationally approved borders in 2000. My friend Ana, who just fled Lebanon for Spain last week, tells me everyone she knows considers the Leb government a worthless pile of crap. "I don't understand it. The hatred in the world. Even in this town as was experienced by my son and me just swimming." What happened to you and your son? | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 688 Registered: 2-2003 |
Reports on the IDF commando raid in Tyre this morning suggest the Lebanese Army and Hezbollah joined forces in the battle. The Lebanese Army, which has already taken more than 20 casualties from IDF attacks, announced some time ago that it would fight against an Israeli invasion. However, this appears to be the first time the Lebanese Army has actually entered the war. This is an ominous sign with huge implications for the war as well as the long-term. One possible scenario could be a virtual merger of the Lebanese Army and Hezbollah, which would mean that when the Lebanese Army takes control of southern Lebanon it will really be Hezbollah fighters in different uniforms. Another example of how the Israeli bombing of Lebanon has had the opposite results of what was intended. http://today.reuters.co.uk/misc/PrinterFriendlyPopup.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2 006-08-05T045618Z_01_L03205260_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST.xml | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2654 Registered: 3-2003 |
Paul finds it "ominous" that the Lebanese army (or, more likely, Shi'ites in the Lebanese army) would fight with Hizzy. Looked at another way, it appears Hizzy has been set back a tad and needs the help. Which assumption is supported by Nasrallah's recent calls for a ceasefire, wrapped in bravado about how he will hit Tel Aviv if the IDF hits central Beirut (what, flattening the Lebanese south isn't enough reason for Hassan to bomb Tel Aviv?), and by his pleas to the major Arab regimes to join the fight. Hizballah is in trouble. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 689 Registered: 2-2003 |
Good news. We'll get the details later today. Let's hope it works.
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| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 690 Registered: 2-2003 |
J Crohn, The question is not whether Hezbollah has been hurt, it's how much have they been hurt. The only estimate I've seen from IDF sources is that "at least 230" Hezbollah fighters have been killed [http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746648.html], which doesn't seem significant given the tens of thousands of Israeli bombing sorties, bombardments from the sea and rounds of artillery. Perhaps most important, intense fighting continues on the ground near the Israeli border and the rockets continue to be fired into Israel. Of course Hezbollah wants help, that goes without saying. What is important in the Tyre operation is that the Lebanese Army was willing to help Hezbollah and join with them in the battle against the IDF commandos. To my knowledge, Hezbollah doesn't have anti-aircraft weapons. The Lebanese Army does. | ||
| Nuff Sayid Citizen Username: Parkingsux Post Number: 467 Registered: 6-2005  |
The time to take on Iran is quickly approaching..... The idiot president of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, is a national security risk to the west. He's demonstrated and spoken his vile hatred toward Israel and the west too many times. He needs a fundamental readjustment to his political beliefs and public statements... | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5363 Registered: 9-2001 |
"To my knowledge, Hezbollah doesn't have anti-aircraft weapons. The Lebanese Army does." Paul, being that the Lebanese Army was willing to help Hezbollah and join with them in the battle against the IDF commandos, it's now time to knock the living crap out of them. The Tyre raid shows IDF's skill and willingness to save civilian life. However, the burning question is, why would an entire 16 resident apartment house allow a Hezbollah Cell to operate right within their own residential building? Why not make them operate out of one of the many fortified underground bunkers they have? The "Why" question is proof, IMHO, that the reality on the ground is the majority of people killed in Lebanon where the bombs are falling, and the Hezbollah terrorists are, are one in the same... TERRORISTS!!! | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12327 Registered: 5-2001 |
The biggie here is the status of the guided missles Hezbollah was bragging about a few weeks ago. So far they haven't used them to attack Tel Aviv. Obviously Israel is still concerned about them as a threat witness the destruction of the bridges north of Beirut on Friday during rush hour no less. The questions are if they have all been destroyed by the Israeli Air Force and if Hezbollah can find a window of opportunity to use them. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2656 Registered: 3-2003 |
Quite a turnaround: U.S., France agree: UN resolution will call for 'cessation of violence' By Shlomo Shamir, Haaretz Correspondent and AP UNITED NATIONS - The United States and France agreed Saturday on a draft United Nations Security Council resolution that calls for an end to the fighting between Israel and Hezbollah, but would allow Israel to defend itself if attacked, officials said. U.S. Ambassador John Bolton and French President Jacques Chirac's office confirmed that agreement had been reached. The full 15-nation Security Council was expected to meet later Saturday to discuss the resolution, and it was likely to be adopted in the next couple of days, Bolton said. An official with knowledge of the document said the draft calls for a "full cessation of violence" between Israel and Hezbollah, but would allow Israel the right to launch strikes if Hezbollah attacks it. "It does not say immediate cessation of violence," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity because the draft had not yet been made public. That appeared to be a major victory for the U.S. and Israel. France and many other nations had demanded an immediate halt to the fighting without conditions as a way to push the region back toward stability. The proposal does not include a demand that Israel withdraw its troops from positions in southern Lebanon, as demanded by Hezbollah. The French presidential palace in Paris said a deal was reached on a resolution that seeks a total halt to hostilities and would work toward a permanent cease-fire and a long-term solution. Bolton said the resolution would be the first of two. He said this one deals with the immediate issue of the fighting. The second would likely spell out a larger political framework for peace between Israel and Hezbollah. "We're prepared to continue to work tomorrow in order to make progress on the adoption of the resolution but we have reached agreement and we're now ready to proceed," Bolton said. "We're prepared to move as quickly as other members of the council want to move." U.S. President George W. Bush has signed off on the draft and is "happy with the progress being made," his spokesman said Saturday. But Bush knows there could be a long road before violence stops, White House press secretary Tony Snow said. "I don't think he has any delusions about what lies ahead," said Snow, accompanying Bush on his vacation to his private ranch. U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and National Security Adviser Stephen Hadley arrived at the ranch Saturday to consult with Bush as the full Security Council began discussions on the agreement. "The president knew this was going on and he's happy with the progress being made," Snow said. "He's happy with it. He's signed off on it." Snow said there would be a second resolution offered at the UN. "There's still more to do," Snow said. "There's going to be more than one resolution." Bush did not have any plans to speak to other foreign leaders Saturday, Snow said, including Prime Minister Ehud Olmert. "I don't know if he needs to," Snow said. "I haven't heard Olmert complaining." The draft calls for maintaining the Blue Line international border between Israel and Lebanon, demands the halt of weapons smuggling into Lbanon and calls for the release of abducted IDF soldiers. It also calls for the implementation of resolutions 1559 and 1680. According to a diplomat, contrary to a resolution passed in 1996 following Operation Grapes of Wrath that left a breach allowing Hezbollah to fire on IDF troops, the current proposal demands that Hezbollah halt all military actitvity, including firing on civilians and soldiers. In response to the draft resolution, British Prime Minister Tony Blair said "this is a first step. There is still much to be done. But there is no reason why this resolution should not be adopted now and we have the cessation of hostilities ... within the next couple of days." | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2657 Registered: 3-2003 |
"To my knowledge, Hezbollah doesn't have anti-aircraft weapons. The Lebanese Army does." The Lebanese army will not transfer anti-aircraft missiles to Hizballah, nor use them against Israel, without leave from the Lebanese government. Members of the Lebanese government may bend over backward to endorse Hizballah publicly (the better to avoid being assassinated), but behind the scenes they will grovel before the US and Europe to save their country. The threat of anti-aircraft weapons comes from Iran. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1318 Registered: 4-2006 |
At the present moment Hezbollah's losses stand 10 to 1 to the Israel Defense Forces. Despite six years of prepping bunkers and tunnels. Many new recruits will join Hezbollah according to western media talking heads based on Hezbollah's glorious performance in trashing their own country. Such flights of funny analysis and Nasrallah rhetoric ignore Lebanese reality, which some of you posters don't understand or are not aware of. Namely, their fellow shi'ite group Amal wants to take Hezbollah's place in politics, prestige and influence, and sees a clear opportunity as many Lebanese will see Hezbollah as an Iranian vehicle rather than a shi'ite Lebanese one. The Maronite Christians love what Israel is doing to weaken and destroy Hezbollah. The Druse under Jumblatt, too. For my fellow posters here who need a comparative example of Lebanese politics, think the "Godfather" movies. In the meantime a lot of Iranian money and investment has gone up in Israeli F-16 and Merkava tank smoke, and what the Iranians thought was a prime reason why no millitary action would be taken against their nuke sites, the ability of Hezbollah to rain down missles on Israel, is being neutralized. So you can dispense with the usual handwringing and concern about an un-needed war with "islam" and creating the hatred of our enemies against the US. | ||
| J. Crohn Supporter Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2658 Registered: 3-2003 |
Good 'Godfather' analogy, FvF. All: See new thread with full text of proposed UN Security Council Resolution. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10335 Registered: 4-1997  |
Some opinions seem to vary.
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| Eric Wertheim Citizen Username: Bub Post Number: 245 Registered: 1-2005 |
Massively untruthful. The Lebanese prisoner they want the most is a guy who killed a father and his daughter in Israel in 1978, not someone who was taken from Lebanon by the Israelis. The statement that Hizbollah is more "accurate" is dumbfounding. They've shot 1000s of missiles aimlessly (none at the Israeli invaders withhin Lebanon). The low death toll is a testament to Israeli bomb shelters, something Hezbollah didn't bother to build for their people with their 100 mill per year budget from Iran. Finally, as for their status as a mere resistance movement, do your own search for their writings and statements about their unequivocal goals: (1) Islamic state in Lebanon and (2) the destruction of Israel. |
