| Author | Message | ||
     Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1373 Registered: 4-2006 |
So when I have to take a plane next week, I possibly won't be able to a bring bottled water or a carry-on (?). Should a 80 year old woman with a name like Smith be subject to a random search? How much valuable time does our economy and businesses lose from the delays and inconviniences? How about the airlines? How much more money are they losing from this? Isn't it time to start profiling at the airports? Your thoughts. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 342 Registered: 1-2006 |
Advocating profiling on MOL is an exercise in futility. It's like piling Pelion on Ossa. The important question to ask is will they hate us less when we're thirsty and have no gel in our hair. Cheers | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2339 Registered: 8-2003  |
FVF is absolutely right. It's not like for example, British citizens with names such as "Reid" who try to blow up planes. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12373 Registered: 5-2001 |
We do profile. Show up at the airport with a one way ticket and you are going to get a fully body search, which happened to me at Burbank a couple of months after 911. The good Doctor's comment on Mr. Reid is telling. The enemy will change their tactics, including their operatives, based on the security measures taken. I think the events of yesterday points this out. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 7687 Registered: 10-2001 |
I hear BobK was really in to the body search.  | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1745 Registered: 8-2004  |
What do these suspects have in common? This is a hard one so please take your time. Umir Hussain, 24, London E14 Muhammed Usman Saddique, 24, London E17 Waheed Zaman, 22, London E17 Assan Abdullah Khan, 22, London E17 Waseem Kayani, 28, High Wycombe Waheed Arafat Khan, 24, London E17 Cossor Ali, 24, London E17 Tayib Rauf, 21, Birmingham Ibrahim Savant, 26, London E17 Osman Adam Khatib, 20, London E17 Shamin Mohammed Uddin, 36, Stoke Newington Amin Asmin Tariq, 23, London E17 Shazad Khuram Ali, 27, High Wycombe Tanvir Hussain, 24, London E10 Umar Islam, 28, (born Brian Young) High Wycombe Assad Sarwar, 25, High Wycombe Abdullah Ali, 26, London E17 Abdul Muneem Patel, 17, London E5 Nabeel Hussain, 21, Waltham Forest | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 222 Registered: 3-2006  |
Aren't you cute?  Tim McVeigh, Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, John Walker Lindh, Jose Padilla, Ted Kaczynski. You can tell who's a bad guy, 'cause "they" all look the same. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave  Post Number: 10439 Registered: 4-1997  |
Even when the terrorists get caught, it's nice to see a few can pick up the pieces and continue their mission. Why not simply fear all dark skinned people since there are plenty of African Muslims? Terrorist mission accomplished for FvF and 3Ring. | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1746 Registered: 8-2004 |
Why are you guys afraid to admit that most of the terrorist attacks against the West over the past ten years have been committed by Muslims? Profiling this group is only one tool. Liberals only like profiling when killing Dubai Port Deals. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 5716 Registered: 10-1999  |
They have Muslim-sounding names? So did the people who gave information to the British police, so that the London plotters could be arrested. What's your point? | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1747 Registered: 8-2004 |
Being Muslim doesn't make you a terrorist but being an Islamic terrorist usually means you are a Muslim according to the data. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 226 Registered: 3-2006 |
Oh right, "the data!" Did you know that Christian terrorists are generally Christian? There's data on it and everything. Are all terrorists Muslim? Because that's the implication you're making as to where you're going with this. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10445 Registered: 4-1997 |
The same rationale is being used by Israel to bomb Lebanese civilians. | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1748 Registered: 8-2004 |
Proj, look at the past 15 years and the attacks that have been made against the west. A majority have been commited by Muslims. To not use this fact as a tool would be irresponsible. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 227 Registered: 3-2006 |
Cos, look at the past 15 years and the scale of the crimes committed by the names I mentioned. To not see profiling as an ultimately useless deterrent against violent acts is living in a fantasy world. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10446 Registered: 4-1997 |
That's like saying because Rev. Jim Jones was a Christian minister or because Hitler killed millions of Jews, Christianity is a great evil. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3704 Registered: 5-2001  |
I don't think it would take more than a short period of profiling before terrorists would adapt their tactics. It's probably not that hard to find a white kid from the suburbs and brainwash him, or scam a little old lady into unwittingly carrying a bomb. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 5793 Registered: 8-2003 |
I read an initial report that one or two of the suspects in this latest plot were white kids who converted to Islam, went to Pakistan for training and came back possessed of their mission. Middle class families too. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 343 Registered: 1-2006 |
Obviously, the solution is to greatly increase the rate of Moslem immigration from countries like Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. The size of the Moslem "community" would grow, thereby enlarging the pool of potential tipsters who would notify the authorities if they ever got wind of a terrorist plot. I'm sure we would all be much safer, not to mention all the benefits of increased diversity. We could also probably save some money since the Homeland Security people could concentrate on things like domestic wire-taps and scrutinizing the library records of American citizens. Cheers | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10449 Registered: 4-1997 |
No, the solution seems to be to profile people who visit Pakistan. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2341 Registered: 8-2003 |
you guys are ignoring the obvious. all of these attackers, whether Muslim or Christian have one thing in common - they are all men. Obviously we need to ban men from airplanes. that should solve everything. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1862 Registered: 10-2004  |
but not gay men, since gay men cant be islamic radicals. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2342 Registered: 8-2003 |
I'd probably allow males under 13 and over 70 as well. so we could allow boys, elderly men, and women on planes. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 1036 Registered: 7-2003 |
Percentage of those involved in the first WTC attack who were Muslim men: 100% Percentage of those involved in the second WTC attack who were Muslim men: 100% Percentage of those involved in the London subway bombing who were Muslim men: 100% Percentage of those involved in the attempted Canadian terror attacks who were Muslim men: 100% Percentage of those arrested in the attempted liquid bomb on jets who were Muslim men: 100% Naw, I do not see a pattern here. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2343 Registered: 8-2003 |
what percentage of the world's Muslim men were involved in those attacks? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1857 Registered: 9-2004  |
Arrest of 'normal' neighbours shocks residents Suspects seized at addresses in south and Midlands 1842306%2C00.html,http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1842306,00.html “Though anti-terrorist squad officers have been keen to keep the identities of those arrested secret, the lack of information only served to heighten speculation in several cities. In the Alum Rock area of Birmingham, two men were arrested in Belcher Road as detectives raided the offices of ACS Management Group. A 30-year-old builder who did not wish to be named said: "I heard some commotion so looked out of my back window and saw at least 20 police officers chasing a group of men over gardens of the houses to the rear of the shop." Neighbours reported seeing a lorry twice a week delivering unmarked packages. "There are a number of smartly dressed Asian and Somalian men who seemed to come and go at the property," one said. "I know everybody round here and the people who used to come in and out of there were from all over the place, they often had London accents." Could be anyone not just someone with a “specific” look. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10452 Registered: 4-1997 |
Where's the Oklahoma City bombing? | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1858 Registered: 9-2004 |
Holding Terrorists Accountable? It Depends on the Color and the Cause... http://www.converge.org.nz/pma/rob00204.htm “Terrorism has many faces, more than a few of which are white, just like those of most of the folks calling for war against Afghanistan. And yet never have they called for war against West Virginia. Nor did they call for war against Idaho when that state played host to the Aryan Nation's compound: a place that had nurtured and inspired Buford Furrow, the individual who shot up a Jewish Community Center in Los Angeles and killed a Filipino postman two years ago. So when you hear the President speak of "bringing the terrorists to justice or bringing justice to the terrorists," just remember that although all terrorists are equal in the eyes of the law, some are more equal than others. Tim Wise | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2344 Registered: 8-2003 |
what about Eric Rudolph? | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 229 Registered: 3-2006 |
For once, White Christian Americans don't count? I can't take this "debate" seriously. | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1749 Registered: 8-2004 |
If I am investigating a serial killing I would take into account that the usual killer profile is a white male. I would not eliminate other suspects but realize that the odds are that the killer meets the profile.That would not make me a racist but a good detective. Same for would be terrorist bombers. I would assume that they would also fit the profile, Being Muslim is only one part of that profile. However, I would be wrong to eliminate a suspect because he wasn't Muslim. A profile has more than one element. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 3707 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nobody is denying that men of a certain description performed many terrorist acts (and plotted quite a great deal more). And the desire for vengeance against the perpetrators of terrorist acts is understandable. But the question is: how would profiling actually help? It's foolish to think that it would make much, if any, difference. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 2345 Registered: 8-2003 |
yes, but would you bring in every white male for questioning? | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 230 Registered: 3-2006 |
Which is what makes the profiling method you've been alluding to rather ineffective. Guess we agree after all. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1859 Registered: 9-2004 |
How about this Harvard Graduate  The "Unabomber" Theodore Kaczynski He argued that his actions were necessary in order to fight against the subjugation caused and facilitated by technological progress. He was the target of the most expensive manhunt in the FBI's history. | ||
| Costanza Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 1750 Registered: 8-2004 |
Proj37 we do agree . Ethnic profiling alone won't work. The FBI never used "young Muslim male" as part of the Unibomber profile. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 231 Registered: 3-2006 |
Costanza - take out the word "alone", then we're there. As in, Ethnic profiling won't work. | ||
| Project 37 Citizen Username: Project37 Post Number: 233 Registered: 3-2006 |
If you haven't seen it yet, I strongly recommend the Showtime series Sleeper Cell: http://www.sho.com/site/sleepercell/characters.do I saw this last year and it scared the hell out of me, just because it underlined the fact that there's no guaranteed way to easily "profile" a potential terrorist. It's unsettling on several levels: the diverse backgrounds/cover stories of the cell members, the methodically layered approach to their plotting, and the realistic tension as they put their plans into action. I found it well-written in that while there's a definite plot progression throughout the series, each episode still works more or less as a self-contained story. None of the characters (save the agent) are really sympathetic, yet you can't help but get wrapped up in their personal stories. | ||
| Southerner Citizen Username: Southerner Post Number: 1436 Registered: 2-2004 |
Dear American Friend, Let me introduce myself. My name is Barrister Tunde Kasume and I represent a prominent Nigerian family in Lagos. Most recently, my clients have uncovered a plot by the criminal Nigerian government to loot their coffers of their amassed fortune. My clients have asked me, Barrister Tunde Kasume, to find a trustworthy American friend who would help out their family in their dire time of need. You being an exemplary American citizen are the type of person we would be willing to compensate handsomely for your help in this matter. Currently, my clients have put in an undisclosed escrow account the sum of USD $232,000,000.00. My clients are looking for a willing partner to transfer these monies into an American bank. Once this transfer is complete and the USD$232,000,000.0 is safely in an American bank we would reward you handsomely with a sum of USD$32,000,000.00. My clients have authorized me, Barrister Tunde Kasume, to arrange this wire transfer. Please help this family in their time of need. Without your assistance, this god fearing Christian Nigerian family could be slaughtered at the hand of the corrupt Nigerian government. Please respond immediately and you will be blessed with gratitude and rewarded handsomely. I await your response. If you do not respond I, Barrister Tunde Kasume, will have to find another partner in this transaction and reward them with what could be yours, USD$232,000,000.00. | ||
| 3ringale Citizen Username: Threeringale Post Number: 344 Registered: 1-2006 |
If America should not use profiling because it is, well, morally wrong, is it wrong for all countries or only for America? Would it be wrong, for example, if Israel profiled Moslems? If torture is wrong for all countries, is profiling wrong for all countries? Cheers |
