| Author |
Message |
    
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4715
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:43 am: | 
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It took me a while, but I finally figured it out. Fiction is actually Lord Farquaad. Consider this famous quote from Lord Farquaad and note that Fiction is making similar comments.
"The champion will have the honour, no, no, the privilege, to go forth and rescue the lovely Princess Fiona from the fiery keep of the dragon. If for any reason, the winner is unsuccessful, the first runner-up will take his place. And so on and so forth. Some of you may die, but it's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
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Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 2038
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 8:57 am: |
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Suicidal Tendencies 
That helps explain things. Helps. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1948
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:00 am: |
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tjohn - too funny.
SLK - What are you attempting to say? How is that relevant to all the misery that we have brought to Iraq, and upon ourselves?
fvf - many of us predicted civil war before the invasion. Looks like that prediction was a winner. So lets recap
Before the invasion - no civil war
After the invasion - civil war
Thanks for playing. |
Robert Livingston
Citizen
Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 2039
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:08 am: |
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Hoops: Clearly SLK has a lot of angst leftover from his Beavis and Butthead days. I'd admire his using an ultra-crappy band as a way to tell everyone to eff off, if it wasn't so transparent, and if the band he chose to quote didn't, well, suck. I mean, it's one thing to internalize those lyrics when you're, like, 16, but as an adult it's nothing more than a cry for help. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3780
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:52 am: |
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Perhaps another quote from ST is more fitting:
I'm not crazy - institutionalized
You're the one who's crazy - institutionalized
You're driving me crazy - institutionalized
They stuck me in an institution
Said it was the only solution
To give me the needed professional help
To protect me from the enemy, myself
SLK, how about a Pepsi? |
Illuminated Radish
Citizen
Username: Umoja
Post Number: 62
Registered: 6-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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The only real solution is to cut our losses and withdraw.
We aren't responsible for spreading democracy, that's always been secondary at best for us. It's not our responsibility to play World Police, and even if we are, we aren't doing a good job. |
notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3739
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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Well, the British have announced their intentions to significantly reduce the size of their force in Iraq next year. I forget, are they standing down as the Iraqis stand up, or are they cutting and running? It appears to depend mostly on who's making the remarks. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5816
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Retreating and withdrawing solves nothing, but that's just my take.
Seems the democrats are moving toward the Lamont/Murtha policy of retreat and defeat. Murtha and Pelosi call it redeploying our troops 'over the horizon' but that political feint loses it's appeal when over the horizon is actually Okinawa, per it's author Murtha. Is withdrawal and defeat a winner? Is that in our best interests?
Murtha's point (back then) was the US presence was fueling the insurgency. If the US leaves, then the insurgency would end. This would be interesting since the overwhelming target of the violence isn't the US anymore, but Iraqis.
And you have Biden out there calling for more troops. He even offered that Iraq might best be split into three provinces. This worked quite well in the Balkan Adventure, where we stopped ethnic cleansing in Kosovo and we now have Serbs having been ethnically cleansed out of Kosovo. UN deciding on an independent state of Kosovo which I seem to recall we assured people when we entered without a UN Mandate would not be the case.
Then you have Hillary complaining but essentially sticking the war out ala Lieberman, except the web wackos aren't going after her.
So, which one of these is a solution? Detractors on MOL aren't offering one, but various representatives of the Left are. Which one makes sense and would leave the region and the US in a better way in your estimation?
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Twokitties
Citizen
Username: Twokitties
Post Number: 499
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:27 am: |
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Split it into three countries or get the hell out of the way. True, withdrawing solves nothing, but that seems preferable to staying and solving nothing. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5602
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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Quote:policy of retreat and defeat
Are you interested in a serious discussion, or do you just want to throw around slogans? This kind of buzz-phrase thinking is what got us into this mess in the first place.
Oversimplifying positions isn't going to get us anywhere. Neither is bringing us the Balkans for the umpteenth time. Murtha's Okinawa suggestion was an off-the-cuff improvisation -- stated badly -- that was made after listing his preferred locations of Kuwait, Qatar and Bahrain. Likewise, characterizing Biden's stance as "calling for more troops" is a gross distortion of his nuanced considerations.
Listen, you can't just condense every concept down to where it will fit on a bumper sticker. Thank goodness you guys weren't running D-Day, you would have done everything in PowerPoint and if a tactical suggestion couldn't be printed on a t-shirt its author would be demoted. We would have gotten our asses kicked. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1968
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:19 pm: |
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cjc,
You're right that there aren't many good choices right now. "Stay the course" has gotten us to this point. The left does have many voices, some saner and more sincere than others. The right isn't offering much other than "more of the same." (Murtha's stance is more about protecting our military and letting Iraq take over completely.)
This is one of the reasons I opposed the war in the first place. Western meddling in the Middle East has never gone as hoped.
(By the way, Lieberman's being attacked not so much for his stance on the war, but for his continued •••-kissing.) |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1951
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:35 pm: |
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Contestant: I'll take the Iraq war for 600, Alex
Alex: The answer is 'Defeat and Retreat'
C: What is republican insincerity, spin and emotional manipulation |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 277
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:43 pm: |
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The Bush Administration has the proverbial wolf by the ears and dares not let it go. The only solution for Iraq is a Marshall Plan for the entire country. Massive amounts of troops, US and international, money and international aid and involvement. Far beyond what we are spending now. The problem is the Bush Administration thought they could do this on the cheap and didn't think the present situation was going to happen, which is unforgiveable. Arrogance and ignorance have gotten us to this point.
The only solution is for Bush to acknowledge his mistake, admit the U.S. is in over its head, and ask the world for much help rebuilding and stabilizing Iraq.
But such a plan could not be sold now, to the U.S. or internationally, because of Bush's miserable leadership. We are now at the point of finding the least damaging way to extricate ourselves from this situation. The mess we made will only get messier no matter what we do. That's Bush's problem. Correction, that's a future president's problem. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 15411
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 12:56 pm: |
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"War is not a time of joy."
Thanks for straightening me out on that, Mr. President!
We expected war to be hell. That's why we opposed it. We're not actually surprised that this isn't joyful. We expected this period of non-joy. So let me ask you, Mr. President: what did you expect? |
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 193
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 1:25 pm: |
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Cjc says,
"Retreating and withdrawing solves nothing, but that's just my take"
In all seriousness cjc, what would help us get out of the mess we're in? You review, more or less, the positions of a number of Democrats and then say they have no ideas. You throw around slogans like they're meaningful and basically come back around to stay the course. WTF? Riddle me this cjc, on what level do you think this administration is a success? Why is more of the same and stay the course anything to you but an admission of failure?
The only success I can see from this administration is, that in their minds anyway, they have proven that government doesn't work. They hate government so much, they want to get it to the size where they can drown it in a bathtub and all that. I honestly think with these guys we're seeing a sick and cynical exercise on just how bad government can be.
My question, which you won't answer, is a serious one. On what issues has the Bush administration been successful, and how do we get the hell out of the mess that is Iraq?
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5817
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:16 pm: |
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Twokitties is the only that has answered here. tom -- if you wish to restate one of my summations and vote for one of them, please do. Otherwise, you remain as do most in the complaining column. Hoops can give you some help perhaps.
bettyd allows that increased efforts by the US and the world may turn this around. Kerry was a big 'get the allies on board.' The UN packed up and left Baghdad when their HQ got hit, despite all it's humanitarian tendencies. The world working together is a wonderful thing. Witness the UN force going into Lebanon.
What is the least damaging way to give up...I mean retreat....I mean withdraw?
I'm not entirely pleased with the Administration's work in Iraq. Myself, I think increased troops and efforts to secure Baghdad are the answer or worth a try at least. I think retreat is a disaster.
Administration successes? Tax cuts and a strong economy. Judges. School choice efforts. Accountability as a concept applied to education. And the decision to confront our enemies directly. |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1969
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:30 pm: |
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cjc,
To clarify, though I didn't like going to war in the first place was a wise idea, I don't think it's wise to pull out or even put a timetable on a pull-out now.
By the way, we confronted our enemies in Afghanistan and then retreated in order to go into Iraq. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10565
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:36 pm: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNhMfBLBDGg |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4717
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:45 pm: |
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This business about standing firm to demonstrate our resolve is stupid. It is the talk of politicians and losers, not generals. The only time we ever stood firm in WW II, for example, was when we were gathering supplies to resume our advance.
With regard to Iraq, there are a few questions that need to be answered.
What is the definition of success in Iraq?
What will it take to achieve this definition of success?
Do we have the resources necessary to achieve this definition of success?
If we can't answer these questions or we know the answer and it is beyond any commitment we can or will make, then we have failed. For example, suppose it turns out that 500,000 troops for two more years will most likely result in success. If this is the case, then we are in trouble because we don't have that many available troops. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10566
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:51 pm: |
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Since it appears we're about to go into Iran, we should implement a draft immediately. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5818
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 2:55 pm: |
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Not true. If we retreated from Afghanistan, why are our troops still there? Plus, our vaunted allies in NATO are running the show and pushing agressively into the south of the country -- successfully. |
ae35unit
Citizen
Username: Ae35unit
Post Number: 194
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:05 pm: |
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Your last post had a lot in it, I'm not going to try to address it all. Personally, I think the bettyd approach is probably the right approach - or - cut and run, get out. The difference between Vietnam and Iraq is that the Vietnamese wanted a unified country, and Iraq, I don't know if that's possible, therefore we leave a powder keg of sectarian violence, and we just leave.
I must address your "successes" though.
"Administration successes? Tax cuts and a strong economy. Judges. School choice efforts. Accountability as a concept applied to education. And the decision to confront our enemies directly."
Tax cuts and a strong economy- a nuanced argument could be made as to just how strong the economy is, it's complicated, some things in the economy are pretty good, others aren't. I don't accept that as a success. Corporations are enjoying a great environment, but they're not necessarily passing anything to the public or even their stock holders. Have your taxes gone down? I like the 15% tax on dividends, and the extension on the capital gains reduction, I think they potentially help all income levels, but I honestly can't see any improvement in the tax situation for the middle class or even upper middle class with regard to federal income taxes.
Judges- Harriet Myers anyone?
School choice efforts- a coded BS issue, not really meant to ever be made into a law and most likely unconstitutional
Accountability as a concept applied to education- you're getting out into the weeds here, now introductions of "concepts" are a success, hmm..
And the decision to confront our enemies directly- I could decide to go to Hollywood and become a fabulous star, but that doesn't mean I have a plan or a chance in hell.
The Republicans haven't done anything to help our security, 9/11 happened on George Bush's watch, Iraq has, if nothing else, divided our resources, distracted us from fighting terrorism and cost a hell of a lot of money that could be used for things that would actually make us more secure. The Republicans have made us weak. Why kid yourself?
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1970
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 3:27 pm: |
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cjc,
Are you saying that we haven't pulled troops out of Afghanistan? Or are you confusing "retreat" with "withdraw"? |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 4:57 pm: |
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tjohn-
Given the breath and depth of your Middle East expertise that you have revealed to us many times on these threads, may I call you Little Lord Fauntelroy? Amazing how much one can learn about the region from a short stint in Ben Gurion Airport!
Seriously tjohn, you and others can never seem to take the long or historical view of things which indicates our continued presence in Iraq is more likely to yield a better result and benefits than not. It seems you have immediate gratification needs that resolving complex international problems can't provide, and somehow expect NO costs or losses have to be involved. That's both unrealistic and dangerous.
Perhaps that is why I see so many guys in their 40's wearing baseball caps turned backwards. Perennial childhood? Ah, it's probably their parents' fault !
Hoops-
You predicted civil war in Iraq BEFORE the invasion ?
No doubt you then are a Middle East savant, albeit a wikipedia dependant one.
Tom Reingold-
I would have preferred an embargo, sea and air, and sanctions against Iraq first. You and I will probably not be around when the american public gets all the information on why we actually went into Iraq. Having said that we can't simply withdraw. |
tom
Citizen
Username: Tom
Post Number: 5606
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:13 pm: |
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Oh great, after 350 different reasons for why we went to war, now you want us to believe that the real reasons are top secret.
Please.
We went to war to satisfy a neo-con obsession with Saddam. The evidence, as they say, was fixed around the policy. As for the long view, as long as these chimps are in power we're just going to get more failure. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4719
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:26 pm: |
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Fiction,
Why don't you attempt to answer my three questions with something more substantial than statements of intent and hope? For whatever reason, I don't think Americans will stand for an open-ended commitment to Iraq given the current state of affairs. Where you whine about instance gratification, I see an observation of America dating back to at least 1898. Regardless of how long a view you may take, the current state of affairs in Iraq is unsustainable.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1472
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:33 pm: |
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tom-
All the facts and reasons will be out there in due time. Historians and not you or me, will have the final say. We don't know everything they had on Iraq, and they aren't going to tell us. Perhaps Bush went in because he was pissed that Saddam tried to kill his father, which would make you guys happy in reinforcing your views of him. My point is, we are there and you can't go backwards. Vote for a dem in 2008 then.
As someone who did not see the need to invade, I have to say I think an immediate withdrawal or an announcement of a phased withdrawal is not a good or desirable idea from the standpoint of the U.S. on vital international issues or national security. We will compromise everything if we do.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1473
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:37 pm: |
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tjohn-
First you ignore the successes in Iraq. Their millitary is being trained and the mistakes and reverses experienced in the past are being addressed. I doubt the American public will allow an open-ended approach that means we will be in Iraq 20-30 years.
We have extreme and vital interests at this point and in truth we are in a global war with radical islam. Withdrawal does nothing, except confirms to radical islam that we have no will to fight. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1474
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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tjohn-
First you ignore the successes in Iraq. Their millitary is being trained and the mistakes and reverses experienced in the past are being addressed. I doubt the American public will allow an open-ended approach that means we will be in Iraq 10-20 years. I believe the Iraqi government has given a timetable of sorts as well.
We have extreme and vital interests at this point and in truth we are in a global war with radical islam. Withdrawal does nothing, except confirms to radical islam that we have no will to fight. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10569
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:42 pm: |
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I don't know if you've ever noticed, but changes in religions have only come from within those religions. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4722
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:43 pm: |
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I have never advocated an immediate withdrawal from Iraq. I have questioned our prospects for success in Iraq. I have observed with growing dismay that despite each major achievement in Iraq, the situation has continued to deteriorate.
I believe the best possible case is a Shiite dominated government and military. This will be none to good for the Kurds and Sunnis. I believe a likely case is a fragmentation of Iraq into three warring groups with Turkey and Iran also working to suppress the Kurds. |
Paul Surovell
Supporter
Username: Paulsurovell
Post Number: 731
Registered: 2-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:51 pm: |
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Facts,
Please try to understand that radical Islam thrives on invasions and occupations by the infidel. Bush's policy in Iraq has replaced a secular government with one dominated by radical Islamists connected to Iran.
Very, very bad policy.
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Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10570
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 5:55 pm: |
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Exactly. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1476
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 6:05 pm: |
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Dave-
You obviously have not read any of my other posts on islam or have ignored them.
tjohn-
Nice to hear from someone "on the ground" again! Have you ever met or know any Iraqi Kurds? Doubt it. Do you know anything about the substance of the horsetrading on establishing a government in Iraq? I guess you need to google it or do the wikipedia route.
Paul-
If I respond to the factual accuracy, substance, and knowledge embodied in your post, I would have to be impolite and be considered disrespectful by you. So I won't. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5819
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 7:36 pm: |
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Dave, changes in religion aren't entirely internal. I think the Shinto religion as practised by Japan was modified most likely after they were crushed as a country. The emporer isn't divine anymore, nor is Shinto used in a nationalistic sense to advance an imperial empire.
ae35 -- you're not accepting my successes of the Bush Administration is your right, but Harriet Myers was a blip. Roberts and Alito are in, along with many others on the federal bench. To say that School Choice is unconsistitutional means you didn't read the Supreme Court decision regarding Cleveland. If you think corporations haven't returned any value to stockholders, you've obviously got a lousy stock portfolio and I'm sorry for that. Diversify. A concept of accountability introduced in education may be small to you, but it's scaring the •••• out of the unions who don't have students as their primary concern. Bush has made the country weaker? Who's kidding who? |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2692
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:42 pm: |
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"I don't know if you've ever noticed, but changes in religions have only come from within those religions."
But they are frequently imposed from without. Islam is no different.
Your entire frame of reference when you gabble about "religion" is Christianity, whose tradition you were apparently raised in, and rejected, but which it seems you know less about than some of us Jews. You fail even to take into account that the schismatic aspect of Christian history has ensured that doctrinal change (in American Catholic observance, for example) has tended to be a function of pressure from social and political competition--factors that are ultimately outside sectarian control. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10572
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:42 pm: |
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State Shinto was basically a political creation of Meiji emperor in the 19th century. It has no dogma or source of authority, so it is used however rulers like to use it (if at all). Maybe it's just a nationalized form of Buddhism? WW2 brought a defeat to a propagandized form of the religion. It's interesting to think about the comparisons though. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 1484
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 9:57 pm: |
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Dave-
Good point insofar as emperor worship under shinto led to Japan fighting WWII and such extremist factors as kamakazi (suicide) bombers.
The defeat of Japan led to functional changes in the religion, as will the defeat of radical islam.
Welcome aboard Dave !  |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10577
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:40 pm: |
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I don't think nukes are a good first option, but maybe the omniscient Jcrohn will inform me I believe otherwise or flat out reject that idea. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4731
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
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"emperor worship under shinto led to Japan fighting WWII"
Either that or a dysfunctional relationship between an Army bent on expansion and an Emperor concerned with survival of the throne at any costs. If the leaders of Japan had decided to eat their pride and accede to American demands regarding China, the emperor worshipping citizens would have obeyed accordingly. |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2698
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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"I don't think nukes are a good first option, but maybe the omniscient Jcrohn will inform me I believe otherwise or flat out reject that idea."
You are so intellectually inconsistent and fundamentally dishonest that informing you of anything is fairly pointless. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10578
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
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I'm sure some people believe you. |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2699
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:10 pm: |
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"The defeat of Japan led to functional changes in the religion, as will the defeat of radical islam."
Going to take a bit longer, though, owing to the comparative depth of political Islam's historical roots.
MTV generation will not be pleased. |
J. Crohn
Supporter
Username: Jcrohn
Post Number: 2700
Registered: 3-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:11 pm: |
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"I'm sure some people believe you.'
I'm sure you give them plenty of reason. |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 10579
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 11:14 pm: |
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goodbye. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1952
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:24 am: |
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I am sure the MTV generation will be bringing far better ideas and solutions to the table then JCrohn.
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S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1885
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 1:03 pm: |
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Folks,
My use of ST lyrics was in response to notey's/hoops difficult time accepting that other opinions do exist in this world. Sorry if you find my viewpoints "asinine"...see the lyrics once again for my response to such narrowmindedness.
RL-
The Stone Roses suck, and now so does the Suicidal Tendencies. I agree the latter band isn't that great but they do have their moments. I can only wonder what you grew up listening to, or even now. I am sure i would get a good laugh...
-SLK |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1886
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 1:11 pm: |
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Dave-
What did you mean by "goodbye?" Did you ban JCrohn and if so on what grounds? I am guessing you did because the dialogue (sp) between you and him came to an abrupt end.
If my assessment is wrong, then I owe you an apology.
If your answer is yes, i really need to speak to your brother Jamie about your power trip behind the MOL keyboard. It is really getting ridiculous. Brother or not, if I was against banning posters as much as Jamie claims he is, your moderating gig would be shutdown in a heartbeat.
-SLK
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 3751
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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SLK, what gives you the impression (which you've repeated many times) that anybody here denies the existence of other opinions? |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1955
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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[sound of crickets chirping]
A stream runs through an open meadow. The sun is shining and a warm breeze is blowing. There is plush grass and rolling hills in the distance...
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1956
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 1:46 pm: |
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Americans who Died in Iraq
We dont belong here.
 |
S.L.K. 2.0
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1887
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:58 pm: |
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Hoops-
Wow dead people...
-SLK |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1986
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:01 pm: |
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There is definitely a conflict between the global secular society and religious extremists of all kinds, whether they exist in Kansas City, Teheran or Jerusalem.
Secular society will ultimately prevail, since it can find a place inside it for moderate religious believers who can limit their beliefs to their private lives. A religious society offers no such possibility.
Bush and bin Laden are both enemies of rational, democratic and secular society. In the longer run they are both on the same losing side. |
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