| Author | Message | ||
     Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro  Post Number: 3718 Registered: 5-2004  |
Glcok, did he say what made him think they were "illegal chemicals?" What would make you think Israel has or would use white phosphorus (I assume that is you, amkingh te leap to WP, not the Red Cross worker)? Art, I neve figured you for the naive, idealistic type. "Imagine the impact on these rogue governments with all eight of these nations working together, side by side, elbow to elbow, for world peace. What better place, and what better time than now to have them all agree to stand together..." Others here would say "Kumbaya" as an insult. I'm heartened. | ||
| Aquaman Supporter Username: Aquaman Post Number: 986 Registered: 8-2001  |
1000 | ||
| ajc Citizen Username: Ajc Post Number: 5418 Registered: 9-2001  |
"... I never figured you for the naive, idealistic type." Yes, I’m really a nice guy, and sometimes it gives me great pleasure to show my more nonviolent and optimistic side... It also helps to confuse my enemies and gives me an edge if the time comes to rip their hearts out...  | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 712 Registered: 2-2003 |
Potentially historic developments in Israel/Lebanon/UN being reported only on Fox News. CNN and MSNBC still stuck on airport interviews. Kudos to Fox and anchor Shepherd Smith. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 1860 Registered: 9-2004  |
Don’t if I can trust Faux News, however here is the CNN report. Report: Israeli expands Lebanon thrust France says U.N. cease-fire resolution vote expected Friday Friday, August 11, 2006; Posted: 2:41 p.m. EDT (18:41 GMT) http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/11/mideast.main/index.html JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Amid reports that Israel has begun an expanded offensive into Lebanon, wire services said the Israeli government had a positive reaction to a U.N. cease-fire plan set for a vote Friday afternoon. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12377 Registered: 5-2001 |
This is getting really wacky. Israel started their thrust to the Litani about two hours before the government changed their mind and has agreed to the upcoming UN resolution. Did they get concessions? The Bush administration, after supporting Israel to the hilt for a month is now ramming a UN resolution down their throats that I really wouldn't blame them for not accepting. The "robust" UN force is being authorized under Chapter six of the UN charter and will basically be peacekeepers and Sbana (sp) Farms is being put in play. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1385 Registered: 4-2006 |
Shaba, Bob. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12380 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually according to Fox News it is Shabba. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1388 Registered: 4-2006 |
Bob K- Does Fox News ever get anything right to you guys? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3823 Registered: 3-2004  |
Bob: Why don't you turn your channel to C-Span. The nations of the world are voting for peace. | ||
| Gordon Agress Citizen Username: Odd Post Number: 506 Registered: 8-2004 |
Paul, I won't bother arguing with you about what you do and don't believe. Your habit of ignoring inconvenient points makes it impossible to have any serious conversation. (Note, for example, that you have nothing to say about my prior post noting the unexamined assumptions of your conclusions, but are quick to answer the hint of a suggestion that you might be a pacifist.) Not that I couldn't win the argument -- a full-time rhetorician such as yourself must see that I could drive a semantic truck through the term "formulations" -- but it's a waste of time. Readers can look at your stuff and decide for themselves: are these the sober, considered opinions of a man who's looked at all sides of the question and is prepared to follow the analysis whereever it may lead? Or the rhetorical formulations of a man supporting an agenda he chose long ago reasons undislcosed to anyone else? I need help with my obsession with this thread, so I'll just go ahead and get myself banned. I don't reply to idiot ignoramuses like Glock, and I'm done replying directly to more useful idiots such as yourself. Perhaps I'll be restored and I'll pop up again to point out the gaping flaws in your "thinking", but I abandon any hope that you'll admit them. The floor is yours. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 713 Registered: 2-2003 |
Gordon, Could've, would've, should've ... there's a cease-fire agreement all you can do is engage in infantile name-calling ... yawn. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 874 Registered: 1-2006 |
The aggressor, the hesbo boys, are not a party, because they will never sign. So, they must die. Be about peace, after you kill the enemy. jd | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 715 Registered: 2-2003 |
Joel, Fox News reported an hour ago Nasrallah's declaration that he will abide by the resolution. Hezbollah's already part of the Lebanese Government and I'll repeat my prediction that Hezbollah will merge its military wing with the Lebanese Army and in that way comply with the requirement to disband its militia. This won't happen tomorrow but probably over the next six-months to a year. Israel's strategy of massive bombing and invasion has enhanced Hezbollah's power and influence in Lebanon enormously. Israel needs to adopt a new non-military strategy to establish credibility with the Lebanese people and especially those Lebanese who were moderates before July 12th. As a first step, instead of continuing to bomb and accelerate its ground invasion, Israel should announce a cease-fire and offer to assist Lebanon in its reconstruction. | ||
| joel dranove Citizen Username: Jdranove Post Number: 875 Registered: 1-2006 |
If it were massive bombing, there would be nothing left. Kind of like ours of Dresden, Frankfurt, Berlin, Tokyo, Osaka, and those two other cities bombed sixty years ago, last week. Now THAT was massive bombing. If you worry about your enemy's rep in its home base, you lost the battle, and the war. The moderates, if any, did not speak up about the six year big dig and militarization of their own country. They apparently approved, certainly without asking the famous and brave UN blue helmets to stop the bad, bad hesbos. You can trust a religious zealot backed by petrodollars, who looks forward to this hudna, so he can fight again, with your blessings. You will continue to "be about peace," and he will go back to murder. jd | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 3856 Registered: 3-2004 |
Paul, I agree about Shepard Smith. He's been fantastic. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12383 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually Fact, Fox does an excellent job of on scene reporting and news gathering. I suspect they have a larger staff than the other cable news outlets and a little bit at least because they will report based on one source only. However, so many of their anchors are biased towards the Bush point of view. Listening to someone such as Chris Wallace is like listening to Ken Mellman with out Ken's charm/humor. On the left, Lou Dobbs, as an example, has become just about as bad as Wallace imho. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 717 Registered: 2-2003 |
Seymour Hersh's must-read for anyone who wants to understand Israel's decision to launch an air war against Lebanon: http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/articles/060821fa_fact | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 2373 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well said, jd. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1433 Registered: 4-2006 |
Actually you should read : www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1201 Olmert may have screwed up, but there is still strategy to this. And the Iranians are actually s#@$ing their pants. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4694 Registered: 12-2001  |
Somebody is living in Fantasyland if they ever thought Hezbollah's 10,000 rockets was a deterrent to Israeli strikes on Iran's nuclear facilities. Maybe the Iranians were entertaining this fantasy. More likely, it is the Bush Administration and the Olmert Government grasping for straws. Nobody could seriously think that Israel woul be cowed by the threat of more terrorism after having put up with so much over the years. Nobody with any military knowledge would consider these rockets to be an military asset unless you could deliver all of them on an approximately 8k-8k area in rapid succession. Actually, I am not sure of the dispersion and range error on these rockets, but it must be greater than the 20 mils and 2% of the U.S. MLRS. Most likely, this fantasy came from the same people who brought you "shock and awe" and "don't worry, we can bomb them into submission". Ahmedinejad is very clever. He and Iran have nothing to lose and everything to gain if the United States launches a bombing campaign against their nuclear facilities. We would by a little time in exchange for a whole lot of hatred. As far as I can tell, the only damaging aspect of this business for Ahmedinejad is that Iranians, on the whole, seem less than enthusiastic about jihad on behalf of some Arabs. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1435 Registered: 4-2006 |
tjohn- Always good to read your posts from the front. The Israeli "colonizers", as you refer to them, have not had their millitary strength and assets degraded, unless you consider a helicopter and some tanks. Hezbollah has been subject to quite serious degredation. The Iranians built the Hezbollah millitary machine over six plus years. They cannot afford a massive rebuilding of Hezbollah in the short term. Especially due to domestic concerns. I believe that if you read about Iranian foreign policy you will find that the Iranians did create, fund, and direct Hezbollah as their surrogate and as a deterrent to Israeli attack. Millitary sources have also indicated that the missles were clearly supplied to Hezbollah for that reason, particularly as you see the Iranians did not supply tanks or other mechanized equipment. The threat of Hezbollah missle retaliation was supposed to keep the liklihood of an Israeli airstrike on Iranian nuclear facilities in check. I think you are focusing more on your political opinions than Iranian intentions on this one tjohn. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4695 Registered: 12-2001 |
Perhaps so. That would mean that this belief in shock and awe and airstrikes and rocket threats and so on is either genetic or viral if the Iranians belief this stuff too - some form of insanity perhaps. In any case, miscalculation happens of all sides of conflicts. I still have my doubts about your sources, however, as they seems like the could be grouped under propaganda for Israel. I will be interested to see what the people of Israel think about all of this over the coming months. I would imagine the rumor mill in Israel is more accurate than most. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1439 Registered: 4-2006 |
tjohn- The Iranians thought that the Israelis would not attack if their civilian population centers were exposed to 12,000 or so missles controlled by their surrogate, Hezbollah. Seems quite rational to me. If you would like me to post an academic source/resource or two please let me know, as it seems like you enjoy strategic and millitary analysis. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 4696 Registered: 12-2001 |
What is the view of the Hezbollah capture of the two IDF soldiers that precipiated this war? Was that scripted to freelance? Not sure why the Iranians would have thought that, but the belief in the efficacy of bombardment seems, like hope, to spring eternal. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1894 Registered: 10-2004  |
That is an oxymoron. They may have had 100,000 rockets but it seems with all their military might, and all the rockets they launched on Israel, and all the death they caused, the effect was nothing more then some fear and discomfort for the majority of the population. In effect they have been shown to be quite inefficient, and really dysfunctional compared to the might that the Israelis have shown. If Iran was counting on Hizbillah then they are not that intelligent. Some machine. fvf - Dont believe the Hype. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1443 Registered: 4-2006 |
Hoops- What are you writing/talking about? The death toll in Israel would have been far worse if the Israelis had not wiped out the medium to long range missles and launchers as the article I posted states. They could be targeted because they could not move as quickly after firing as Hezbollah could with unguided katyushas. Hezbollah is better trained, armed, and prepared than the insurgents the US army has been fighting in Iraq thanks to huge amounts of Iranian money, had extensive bunker fortifications to wage a guerilla war from, and the most modern anti-tank weaponry available. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1896 Registered: 10-2004 |
obviously you cant catch the fact that you are being poked fun at. Your expression was Hezbollah military machine. If they had a military machine that actually worked then the Israelis would not have been able to wipe out its supply of missiles and launchers so easily. Irony is lost on you. Thought is wasted on you. Dont Believe the Hype fvf. You have swallowed a load of baloney from somewhere and you are a true believer. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1445 Registered: 4-2006 |
Hoops- Iran spent between 4-6 bn on arming and supporting Hezbollah over the years. Only you then could think that Hezbollah is simply a Lebanese equivalent of the Crips. Your comments about missle and launcher detection and destruction show your grasp of millitary issues is the firm equal of your grasp of geopolitics. No doubt you have been actively advising the Costa Rican army with all this accumulated expertise. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1898 Registered: 10-2004 |
typical fvf response. no substance just trying to make it about me. Fact is that you made the ridiculous statement about Hezbollah. Dangerous yes, war machine no way. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 15562 Registered: 10-2001  |
Why is this even worth debating? Sheeeeeeeeeeeeesh. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1899 Registered: 10-2004 |
 | ||
| Ender Citizen Username: Enderw Post Number: 110 Registered: 4-2006 |
"A staggering 45 per cent of British Muslims, according to a poll by Channel 4, believe that 9/11 was a conspiracy between the US and Israel. " This is 25 percentage points less than the 70% of MOLers who believe the same thing. Long live the left. | ||
| Innisowen Citizen Username: Innisowen Post Number: 2263 Registered: 3-2004 |
Ender: Where do you get your arse-over-tea kettle stats about MOL? You sound like just another neocon frustrated that the current administration can't seem to accomplish anything. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1900 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ender - while we are at two opposite ends of the political spectrum and the joke was a good one - I was watching BBC during the coverage of the terror threat and there was a crowd scene in the neighborhood where many of the terrorists were arrested. The scene was of a group of neighbors discussing the days developments and one obviously Muslim person was saying exactly what you say. I believe his quote was something entirely ignorant like "It was the American air force that did it". It was disturbing to hear and not one of the anglo saxon neighbors corrected him. | ||
| Ender Citizen Username: Enderw Post Number: 111 Registered: 4-2006 |
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3291328,00.html thanks hoops - yes it was a joke. It is really only 50%  the link above (if it works) however isn't.- biased source writing about biased reporting. of course, I agree with the source. I am of the belief that the mainstream media - CNN, LAT, NYT, WaPo, all European papers give Israel a raw deal. | ||
| Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 1450 Registered: 4-2006 |
Innisowen- Come on now. I assume that Smith girl that dissed you was a neo-con, hence your continuing phobia over neo-cons to this day. Is everyone that has a different opinion than you a neo-con? Hoops- That obtuseness should be medically studied! The world needs a cure! | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1910 Registered: 10-2004 |
what do you mean? | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 10506 Registered: 4-1997  |
--whistle blow--points at FvF----- Here's a YELLOW CARD for the Personal Attack This was a warning. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 12403 Registered: 5-2001 |
Did Israel really knock out the long range guided missles that could hist Tel Aviv and their nuclear facilities or did, according the article FvF linked the Iranian Republican Guard officers keep the keys in their pockets to use them another day? I rather doubt that the Iranians had those missles and their launchers sitting out on a soccer pitch. I suspect Israel got some of them, but not all. |
