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notehead
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Username: Notehead

Post Number: 3741
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:29 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I'm no reflexive France-hater, but what the hell is their game? They're only willing to commit 200 troops to help preserve the cease fire in Lebanon? That is totally unacceptable, especially in light of their demands for a major role when negotiations were going on. Are they simply waiting for clearer terms to be agreed to before making a greater commitment, or are they truly unwilling to provide manpower for an issue that they seemed to think quite recently was terribly urgent? Indonesia is ready to provide 1000 troops (although they will only go to Lebanon). Italy has offered 3000. Looks to me like France is really dropping the ball here.
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Bob K
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Username: Bobk

Post Number: 12472
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I have heard/read two explanations:

1. There was a disconnect between the Foreign Ministry and the Ministry of Defense. The military, remembering the bombing back in the 1980s don't want to send troops so it seems.

2. Syria, reminded France of the before mentioned bombings and indicated it could happen again, thereby scaring the bejus out of the Chirac government.

Israel has also indicated that they will not accept troops from countries they don't have diplomatic relations with, ruling out most Muslim countries, probably including Indonesia.

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notehead
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Username: Notehead

Post Number: 3743
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Well, letting previous actions and/or threats of similar actions by governments comprised of lawless cretins scare you is hardly a justification for failing to commit manpower to an important, even noble, undertaking like this peacekeeping effort. I hope they come up with a more compelling reason than that -- or simply grow a pair.
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc

Post Number: 5823
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
They're French.
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tjohn
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Username: Tjohn

Post Number: 4736
Registered: 12-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 10:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Nobody wants to shoulder the costs. Countries like Italy or France should be committing a heavy division each. The Indonesians, meanwhile, will be toasting marshmallows on the exhaust of 122 mm rockets.

This is not a cease-fire. It is intermission during which time, Hezbollah will try to rearm as much as they can and the Israelis will figure out how to do it right when fighting resumes.
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notehead
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Username: Notehead

Post Number: 3748
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:07 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Yes, I doubt that the Indonesians are particularly concerned about protecting Israelis. One has to wonder if the Indonesians would in fact guard the lines re-arming Hezbollah, rather than focusing on keeping the peace.
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Chris Prenovost
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Username: Chris_prenovost

Post Number: 1045
Registered: 7-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
France's foreign policy rests on two pillars:

1-) Anti-Americanism, and

2-) Anti-semitism.

Anything they do is viewed through the prism of those two pillars. Their government is truly reflective of the French people: Spineless, vacillating, utterly cynical pseudo-intellectuals who think they know everything.
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tom
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Username: Tom

Post Number: 5610
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 11:40 am:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Anti-semitism has been a serious problem in France for a long time, and despite the national embarrassments the Dreyfus affair and the Vichy government caused hasn't necessarily gotten any better.

But I think what we see as anti-Americanism is really a defensive nationalism that has to prove its independence by being anti-something, and as the local hyperpower we're that something else.

But the single issue that drives conservatives' dislike of France these days is that they opposed the Iraq war, and the fact that they were right only makes it worse.
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Reader
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Username: Reader

Post Number: 5
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
This is not a cease-fire. It is intermission during which time, Hezbollah will try to rearm as much as they can and the Israelis will figure out how to do it right when fighting resumes.


What Tjohn said.
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Innisowen
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Username: Innisowen

Post Number: 2277
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Somewhere in all this is an old quote from Einstein, about his research and theories.

"If I am right, the honors will flow in to me: the French will call me a Jew, and the Germans will call me a German. If I am wrong, the French will call me a German, and the Germans will call me a Jew."

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.
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joso
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Username: Joso

Post Number: 341
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 3:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
It is certainly strange the way the French have backed out their seeming commitment, but we were the co-authors of the agreement, and we are providing no troops Even if we had them, I think it is unlikely we would commit them there given our past history. Why shouldn't the French be skittish?
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc

Post Number: 5825
Registered: 8-2003
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 4:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
joso -- do you really think Lebanon and more importantly Hezbollah would have gone along with an agreement that puts US troops there?

tom -- feelings of conservatives towards France go way beyond your 'single issue.'
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joel dranove
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Username: Jdranove

Post Number: 930
Registered: 1-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 4:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
I think, ergo sum.
But, how can our State Department, Ms. Rice, VP, the Pres., with all their knowledge and experience (for what that is worth), not have a more concrete and irrevocable commitment?

I think it was amateur hour here.

Innisowen quotes correctly.



jd
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argon_smythe
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Username: Argon_smythe

Post Number: 906
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 6:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
...I'd like a large order of freedom fries with my burger please...

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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction

Post Number: 1496
Registered: 4-2006
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:16 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
The U.S. should ask Jerry Lewis to intervene with French authorities.

So France has.... anti-semitism.... but the U.S.... doesn't?
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Innisowen
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Username: Innisowen

Post Number: 2280
Registered: 3-2004
Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 8:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Why invoke Jerry Lewis when we already have our own nutty professor and master of pratfalls living in the White House?
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Lord Pabulum
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Username: Lord_pabulum

Post Number: 58
Registered: 7-2006


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
There is nothing wrong with Jerry, however how long can you speak to a French or Israeli person with out being spat on, by mistake? Allah praise them.
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Spinal Tap
Citizen
Username: Spinaltap11

Post Number: 185
Registered: 5-2006


Posted on Wednesday, August 23, 2006 - 9:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Not that I'm a defender of France or anything but there is one more pillar with regard to the U.S. and the Middle East. The fact that we screwed them along with the UK and Israel at the Suez in 1956.
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Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops

Post Number: 1969
Registered: 10-2004


Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 3:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060824/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_peacekeepers

France pledged 2000 troops.
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notehead
Supporter
Username: Notehead

Post Number: 3757
Registered: 5-2001


Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 4:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
That's a little more like it. Now let's see what those troops actually do.
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23

Post Number: 1974
Registered: 5-2001
Posted on Thursday, August 24, 2006 - 5:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post Print Post    Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)
Everyone gets up in arms, but has to be prodded to act on it. Like when Rice announced that the US would provide $50 million to Lebanon in the wake of the bombings, people lamented that it was too cheap. After international pressure, we are giving $270 million.

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