| Author | Message | ||
     Duncan Real Name Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 2260 Registered: 12-2001  |
well, actually you do Straw. Frequently | ||
| Warm In Florida Citizen Username: Cfa Post Number: 1106 Registered: 5-2001  |
"Lesser Presidents such as Clinton or Carter who accomplished little won't have a Reagan legacy but they also won't have Conservatives spitting on their graves when their gone." Why isn't Bush Sr. included here??????? I'd remove Clinton and insert Bush. | ||
| Mark Fuhrman Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 412 Registered: 9-2001  |
Like him or not, Reagan was the spearhead of a massive sea-change in politics in America. After Reagan's reign, ideas that were on the right are now in the center; what was in the center is on the left; and what was left is no longer even in sight (cribbed liberally, ahem, from Cass Sunstein in American Prospect). The judiciary is stacked at all levels with conservative ideas that never would have even been acknowledged 25 years ago; Democrats call for reforming the bureaucracy and championed the end of big government (even if it actually grew larger under Clinton and continues to do so under Bush Lite); and every discussion of taxes revolves around how much to cut them (more or less) rather than how much to raise them. Personally, I disagreed with many of Reagan's policies and his neglect of the environment and poor people. But in all honesty one has to recognize his impact on American political culture--he probably had the most impact since FDR, whether you like it or not. | ||
| Ukealalio Citizen Username: Ukealalio Post Number: 703 Registered: 6-2003 |
Straw- Where have I demonstrated how foolish and mean I am ?, stating that I disliked the mans persona and policies ?. I distinctly said, "I will not disrespect the mans passing". Maybe you should read before you start typing. Remember when you point your finger at people and call them morons, you have 3 fingers pointing right back at ya. Those who make a habit of labelling others fools are usually harboring one. | ||
| mr greenbeans Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 757 Registered: 8-2002  |
In other news Ronald Reagan is still dead | ||
| mr greenbeans Citizen Username: Java_drinker Post Number: 758 Registered: 8-2002 |
Correction: While Reagan can be given credit for bankrupting the Soviet Union, there are two side notes that most people here seem to be forgetting or just plain old getting wrong 1) While bankrupting the USSR by getting into the most expensive arms race of all times, he also bankrupted most of America and sent us into a trillion-dollar debt that wasn't wiped clean till the 42nd Administration was in office. 2) While his actions/spending led to the end of the USSR it in fact did not lead to the death of Communism. Some of you forget that there are at least 3 Soviet-style commonest countries left and a few well-run socialist countries. So I give the man his due and even put him up there in the pantheon of great leaders of the 20th century, but the deity-level positioning that some are bestowing is not correctly placed. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 402 Registered: 1-2003 |
America is far from bankrupt, and the debt was not erased, the budget deficit was (by increasing the debt, but thats for another thread). 2 completely different things. His policies are directly responsible for the 90's boom. Communism is dying. It will be dead in China in my lifetime. Without the USSR to support them they have had to open up to capitalist ideals. You'll see. It will be dead in Cuba when Fidel dies. Without USSR support, its hanging on by a string down there as it is. Socialism is another story... but it is just a matter of time before their systems implode. Look at what is happening in Canada with their health system. That is a perfect Socialist microcosm. And its falling apart. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 781 Registered: 6-2003  |
That would of course explain why so many Americans go to Canada for cheaper drugs, since the U.S. healthcare bureaucracy is unable to supply them at affordable prices. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 403 Registered: 1-2003 |
No, they go there because the Canadian Gov't heavily subsidizes the drugs and americans can take advantage of that. Try to get an MRI up there. Or even cardiac surgery. Canadians are fed up with it. Its collapsing onto itself. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 1657 Registered: 8-2003 |
In fact, the debate up in Socialist Canada is to allow private practitioners back into the nationalized system up there in order to save it. | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 2596 Registered: 5-2001  |
There is no such thing as a "socialist" country, or a "communist" country, or a "capitalist" country. Developed countries have varying combinations of these, because any country run in the "pure" mode will self-destruct. If the US went to pure laissez-faire capitalism with no social safety net, consumer protection or business regulation, there would be a revolution the first time the economy tanked -- which would be sooner rather than later because corporations will not act in a responsible way in the short term unless they have to. China has adopted huge doses of capitalism because there would be a revolution as people watched what the rest of the world has that they do not. North Korea is not a communist country, it's a monarchy. Cuba comes closer but it's going to change as soon as Fidel dies. What's referred to as a "socialist" country is a grab bag of different levels of taxation and social services depending on local circumstances. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 1660 Registered: 8-2003 |
N. Korea is not a socialist country nor is it a communist country. Thank you, Gerald Ford. | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 590 Registered: 3-2001 |
In more fitting commentary regarding President Reagan's passing: The president visited South Orange in May 1983 when he was the commencement speaker at SHU - right on the campus! I think a couple of buildings now cover what was then a great lawn. The News-Record published a souvenir issue to commenorate the event. The president arrived by helicopter. Entertainer Pearl Bailey also received an honorary degree. In addressing the graduates, the president said: "The world you inherit today will not always be an easy one, for nothing worth winning is easily gained. But it's a good world, and a world that each of you can help to make a better one. What greater gift than than - what nobler heritage could anyone be blessed with?" That spirit is what the worldd remembers most about President Reagan. South Orange was put on the national map and the village was jumping! SHU also brought national attention to SO in 1989 when the basketball team made it to the Final Four. | ||
| joso Citizen Username: Joso Post Number: 230 Registered: 5-2001 |
I am going to be sick. It was just posted that the NY markets will close on Friday for Reagans funeral. Whether or not you think he was a great President (I don't), he was 93 years old and his passing is hardly a national tragedy. A time for remembrance, introspection and tribute, yes... a time for the nation to shut down?... hardly. | ||
| ML Citizen Username: Ml1 Post Number: 1785 Registered: 5-2002  |
I was in the SHU graduating class of '83, and I recall the president's chopper arriving late, and Pearl Bailey stepping forward to entertain the crowd with a few a cappella tunes during the delay. Even those of us who disagreed with Reagan's policies were excited to have a president visit the campus. For one day we forgot politics and celebrated the extra pomp and circumstance that come with a presidential visit. Reagan himself seemed to enjoy the visit, staying around for a few extra minutes to shake hands with the some of the grads -- even though we had been told in advance that the president would not do any more than give his speech and leave. The entire week leading up to the visit was pretty interesting as well, with the Secret Service advance team on campus. Each time we went on a beer run, we'd be greeted by the agents as we returned. Their main job seemed to be overseeing construction of a covered stage for the event -- in order that no one in the Ivy Hill towers would have a clear sight of the president as he spoke. | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 3473 Registered: 10-1999  |
I didn't know that President Reagan had come to South Orange. I did some looking, and found his 1983 Seton Hall commencement address. He talked about education (guess this place has that effect on people). | ||
| ML Citizen Username: Ml1 Post Number: 1788 Registered: 5-2002 |
there you go again, nohero... I had forgotten how much policy he laid out in the speech. I guess it was because I tuned out all the political stuff that day.  | ||
| ML Citizen Username: Ml1 Post Number: 1791 Registered: 5-2002 |
Here's James K. Galbraith in today's Salon. It sums up pretty well how I feel about Reagan. "One cannot begrudge Ronald Reagan's personal admirers their moment of eulogy. And particularly not in view of the man's wise embrace of Mikhail Gorbachev late in his term, his gallant departure into Alzheimer's 10 years ago, and Nancy Reagan's noble advocacy since then of government support for stem-cell research. There were moments beyond politics when those of us who opposed Reagan the most could, and did, tip our hats to him." (of course the next word in the article is "But" ) | ||
| tom Citizen Username: Tom Post Number: 2600 Registered: 5-2001 |
and there's a whole list of "but"s, I'm sure. But we'll have time for that next week... | ||
| Mark Fuhrman Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 417 Registered: 9-2001 |
COMMENTARY By Joe Davidson June 07, 2004 It’s customary to say good things about the dead. Ronald Reagan appointed the first woman to the Supreme Court. He signed legislation for a national holiday honoring Martin Luther King. He thawed relations with the Soviet Union and signed a nuclear weapons treaty. He was warm and amiable and had a good sense of humor. He liked horses. Now let's talk about what he did to black people. After taking office in 1981, Reagan began a sustained attack on the government’s civil rights apparatus, opened an assault on affirmative action and social welfare programs, embraced the white racist leaders of then-apartheid South Africa and waged war on a tiny, black Caribbean nation. So thorough was Reagan’s attack on programs of importance to African Americans, that the Citizens Commission on Civil Rights, an organization formed in the wake of Reagan’s attempt to neuter the official U.S. Commission on Civil Rights, said he caused "an across-the-board breakdown in the machinery constructed by six previous administrations to protect civil rights." During his two terms in office, Reagan captured, solidified and came to personify America’s move to the political right. His greatest legacy is as leader of that swing in the American political spectrum. That shift made “liberal” a dirty word and Democrats cower. What had been conservative became moderate. What was moderate was pushed to the left wing. The shift was so pronounced and profound that black America giddily embraced Bill Clinton despite his promotion of programs, criminal justice and welfare policies in particular, that would have been called racist and reactionary under Reagan. "Ronald Reagan, it is fair to say, was really an anathema to the entire civil rights community and the civil rights agenda,” Ronald W. Walters, a professor of government and politics at the University of Maryland, told BET.com just a few hours after Reagan died, at age 93, on Saturday. Walters, in his book “White Nationalism/black Interests – Conservative Public Policy and the black Community,” argues that George W. Bush’s election in 2000 secured the domination of American politics “by the radical Conservative wing of the Republican party, a project begun when Ronald Reagan was elected to the White House in 1980.” His overwhelming defeat of incumbent Jimmy Carter that year brought a new spirit to America, at least white America. The United States was still reeling in self-doubt after being run out of Vietnam. National shame was raw because 52 Americans had been held hostage by Iran from November 1979 until after Reagan’s election. In 1984, he successfully campaigned for reelection on a “Morning in America” theme. But his presidency was a long and dreary night for African Americans. Consider this record. Reagan: · Appointed conservative judges, like Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who continue to issue rulings to the detriment of African Americans. Walters notes that just 2 percent of Reagan’s judicial appointments were black. · Began his 1980 presidential campaign in Philadelphia, Miss., near the site where three civil rights workers were murdered in 1964. · Supported racism with remarks like those that characterized poor, black women as “welfare queens.” · Fired U.S. Commission on Civil Rights members who were critical of his civil rights policies, including his strong opposition to affirmative action programs. One of the commissioners, Mary Frances Berry, who now chairs the Commission, recalls that the judge who overturned the dismissal did so because “you can’t fire a watchdog for biting.” · Sought to limit and gut the Voting Rights Act. · Slashed important programs like the Comprehensive Employment and Training Act (CETA) that provided needed assistance to black people. · Appointed people like Clarence Thomas, who later became a horrible Supreme Court Justice, to the Equal Opportunity Commission; William Bradford Reynolds, as assistant attorney general for civil rights; and others who implemented policies that hurt black people. · Doubted the integrity of civil rights leaders, saying, “Sometimes I wonder if they really mean what they say, because some of those leaders are doing very well leading organizations based on keeping alive the feeling that they're victims of prejudice." · Tried to get a tax exemption for Bob Jones University, which was then a segregated college in South Carolina . · Defended former Sen. Jesse Helms’ “sincerity” when that arch villain of black interest questioned Martin Luther King’s loyalty. The federal budget during the Reagan years tells the tale in stark, dollar terms. According to the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, as reported by the Los Angeles Times as Reagan left office in 1989, programs that helped black America suffered greatly during his tenure. Using information from the Center, the Times published a table showing “some reductions in social programs under the Reagan administration; in constant dollars, adjusted for inflation”: BY THE NUMBERS Cuts in social programs Fiscal year (In millions of dollars) 1981 1988 Training and employment $9,106 $2,887 Energy assistance $1850 $1162 Health services, including community health centers and care for the homeless $856 $814 Legal Services $321 $232 Compensatory Education $3,545 $3,291 Housing assistance for elderly $797 $422 Community services block grant (funds local anti-poverty agencies) $525 $290 Despite this record, Reagan expressed frustration, during a 1989 CBS interview, about his relations with African Americans. "One of the great things that I have suffered is this feeling,” he said, “that somehow I'm on the other side" of the civil rights movement. He also was on the wrong side of international issues important to African Americans. Reagan crushed the government of Grenada in 1983 because he felt it had fallen too far into the orbit of Cuba’s Fidel Castro. Grenada is a tiny place, smaller in size than Philadelphia, with fewer people than Peoria. His trumped-up excuse was American medical students on the Caribbean island nation were threatened by government officials he called “a brutal group of leftist thugs.” He outraged African Americans and others by relating to apartheid South Africa as a friend and ally. His program of constructive engagement amounted to a go-slow policy under which apartheid was criticized but essentially tolerated. It was a policy that delayed the independence of Namibia, then controlled by South Africa, blocked United Nations’ condemnations of South African attacks on nearby African countries and permitted American corporate support for the racist régime. He was loyal to South Africa because, as he told CBS during an interview early in 1981, it was "a country that has stood by us in every war we've ever fought, a country that, strategically, is essential to the free world in its production of minerals." Even as the majority of the American people came to oppose South Africa’s racist repression, Reagan stood by his friend. Pushed by black leaders and organizations, Congress passed sanctions against South Africa. Reagan, on the wrong side of history, vetoed the bill. Congress, to Reagan’s shame, overrode the veto. The gushy tributes to Reagan might be understandable eulogies, but they also are a testament to the persistence of two Americas, one black and one white. The two don’t see things the same and the reaction to Reagan is just one more example. © 2004 BET.com. All rights reserved. |
