| Author |
Message |
    
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 804
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:50 am: |     |
I'm starting to think Kerry is actually part of the vast conspiracy to keep Bush in office. Rehashing the ANG? They've got to be kidding. Itis the best publicity that the Bush campaign could hope for.
Bush has released all of his records. Thats why the AP was able to get them under the FOI act. (they had to be found first though.)
Kerry REFUSES to release his. He can't. If he did they will show him as AWOL from the Navy Reserve, and an other than honorable discharge in the 70's that had to be appealed until 2000 (when it was finally awarded according to the kerry website's documents).
Keeping this in the spotlight is the best thing the Bush campaign could hope for, because eventually it will force Kerry to either sign the 180 or admit why he won't. either way, Kerry loses.
Especially since Bush DID fulfill all of his ANG requirements. President Bush puts in 898 hours of guard service in a five-year period, including two years of full-time flying, Given the fact that the president only needed 250 hours to meet the minimum requirements for 5 years, that means he put in 3-1/2 times the number of hours required! That INCLUDES 53 hours (3 more than required) in each of his last 2 years.
Its almost like Kerry WANTS to lose.
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singlemalt
Citizen
Username: Singlemalt
Post Number: 369
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:52 am: | |
Madden,
From the same article:
Mr. Bush took questions from reporters at least four times in August, including Aug. 2, when he announced his plan to revamp U.S. intelligence services; Aug. 9, when he appeared with Poland's prime minister; Aug. 15, when he toured damage from Hurricane Charley in Florida; and Aug. 23, when he answered a series of questions after meeting with his national security team at his ranch in Crawford, Texas.
As we all know, the press can ask anything they want (and often do) whenever an opportunity is presented.
MHD, we are in agreement. However, if you view the TV add I posted above from the swiftvets, even if they are fabricating everything about what actually happened in Vietnam, Kerry's actions and statements when he returned are what will hurt him the most. You can't compare Bush's inability to speak the english language with the intent of what is being said. Kerry's intent was clear. |
singlemalt
Citizen
Username: Singlemalt
Post Number: 370
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:55 am: | |
MHD, I've seen the swiftboat ads on CNN and Fox. They obviously won't be shown locally since Kerry has a lock on NY state and will probably end up winning NJ although it appears to be closer than anyone though it would be. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 805
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:56 am: | |
The reason the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth have hurt Kerry is that their allegations have made the Kerry campaign retract 3 of their stories and Kerry won't allow his records to be released.
Kerry could easily refute the charges if they were lies by releasing his records. He refuses to, and his story keeps changing... 3 different versions of the "No man left behind" incident, Cambodia, 1st Purple Heart that he now admits may have been in error.
The only lies hurting the Kerry campaign are Kerry's. |
parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1172
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 11:58 am: | |
"Clinton got elected 2x despite dodging the draft. I have to assume that nobody (except staunch partisans) will really care whether Bush was MIA or Kerry fabricated a boat story or two. I know I don't..."
True except for the fact that Bush and the republicans like to wrap themselves in the flag and present the image that their opponents will not defend America. John Fogerty's Fortunate Son couldn't be more timely.
FORTUNATE SON
------Creedence Clearwater Revival
Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail To The Chief",
oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no senator's son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no,
Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman come to the door,
Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no.
Yeh, some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no military son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,
- John C, Fogerty |
thegoodsgt
Real Name
Username: Thegoodsgt
Post Number: 594
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 12:11 pm: | |
This is all very interesting.
First, it's very odd that this group can't even get its own unit designation correct, which is uncharacteristic for military personnel who typically feel a great deal of unit pride. They incorrectly refer to the "187th Tactical Squadron" and "187th Air National Guard." Both are incorrect. It was the 187th Reconnaissance Group. Take a look at the unit's own history to confirm at http://www.almont.ang.af.mil/HistoryInformation.html.
More importantly, it seems as if the men who claim not to have seen Bush were pilots, alleging that if there were a new pilot among their ranks they would've seen him. That's true, as there are typically 20-30 pilots assigned to a squadron of 24 aircraft, but since Bush was qualifed in the F-102 and the 187th was flying RF-4Cs in 1972, it's unlikely that Bush's temporary assignment with the Alabama ANG would've put him in an airplane -- and not just a different airplane, but one with a completely different role from what he was trained to do (air-to-air interception). More likely, Bush would've been assigned to some kind of office duty, which is not unusual for pilots (much to their chagrin).
Mind you, I'm not necessarily defending Bush, merely offering some insight. |
ashear
Citizen
Username: Ashear
Post Number: 1315
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 12:14 pm: | |
It now seems quite clear that Bush has been lying about his guard service (here is a great summary, though you have to wait through an ad to see it http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2004/09/09/bush_guard_duty/). But I agree that this should not be the focus of the campaign. Instead we should focus on the lousy job Bush has done as President. http://slate.msn.com/id/2106417/ |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 806
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 12:15 pm: | |
True except for the fact that Bush and the republicans like to wrap themselves in the flag and present the image that their opponents will not defend America.
Republicans are wrapping themselves in what GWB has done to defend this country over the last 3 years. Agree or disagree (and most agree), that is the record they are putting forth.
Kerry is putting his record of 3 months of duty in Vietnam 35 years ago forward as his qualifications.
The Bush campaign presents the idea that Kery won't defend this country on his record since he got back from Vietnam, and going by that record, he won't. |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 807
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 12:35 pm: | |
Take a look at this memo that the Dems are claiming proves coersion by the Bush family.
http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/BushGuardaugust18.pdf
See if you notice anything "strange" about it.
Silly Dems, can't even produce acceptable forgeries.
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bobk
Citizen
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 6086
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 12:45 pm: | |
Has Bush really defended America effectively?
1. Reading "My Pet Goat" after being told about the attacks on 911, before hiding for the rest of the day.
2. Botching the Afghan war by not inserting the 10th Mountain on the Pakistan border while attacking Tora Bora. The casualties might have been to high.
3. Ceding a good part of Iraq to the insurgents to keep this ugly little war off the front pages.
4. Invading Iraq, essentially, by mistake regardless of what justifications he now uses.
5. Pork barreling the Homeland Security money for political gain.
Need I go on? |
MHD
Real Name
Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 1572
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 2:59 pm: | |
Michael J: According to the CBS news website: "60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic. "
singlemalt: Kerry's "intent" was for people to LEARN from his experience. Unlike, Chickenhawk Bush who has sent 1,000+ Americans to their deaths because he had no first hand experience from which to make an intelligent decision and instead rushed into an unnecessary war.
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Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 808
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 3:15 pm: | |
Michael J: According to the CBS news website: "60 Minutes consulted a handwriting analyst and document expert who believes the material is authentic. "
Oooooh, so then it must be... nothing struck you as strange about it? Nothing at all? Did you even look? There is no way an expert could verify that memo as authentic from 1973 (big hint there).
And Kerry's intent wasn't for people to learn from his experience. He was lying, and knew that the wintersoldier witnesses were lying too, in fact according to one of the witnesses, Kerry himself pressured him to lie about his experience in Viet Nam. |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 3:33 pm: | |
1941
IBM announces the Electromatic Model 04 electric typewriter, featuring the revolutionary concept of proportional spacing. By assigning varied rather than uniform spacing to different sized characters, the Type 4 recreated the appearance of a printed page, an effect that was further enhanced by a typewriter ribbon innovation that produced clearer, sharper words on the page. The proportional spacing feature became a staple of the IBM Executive series typewriters.
and the "th" has been around for the same amount of time |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 211
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 3:51 pm: | |
Right wing: "I don't like a fact, therefore, it's not a fact." These records are forged, Kerry's records are forged, everything's forged.  |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 809
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 4:14 pm: | |
Close Brett, but no cigar.
The memos show Kerning, not just proportional type. Proportional type assigns varied spacing to individual letters, but the spacing for each letter is always constant. Kerning varies the spacing between sets of letters, If you look at the "(F", the "ty" and the "LT" the letters interlock. This is not just proportional spacing.
In 1973 only major US news papers were using kerning.
And Superscripting a th as a special character was not available on IBM selectrics. You could superscript, but only with the same type size.
These docs were written on a word processor (MS Word defaults match this doc exactly).
Forgeries.
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Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 212
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 4:38 pm: | |
Man, Michael. You guys must be desperate to claim something as easily disproven as forgery. I'm no expert in typesetting, but what will you say when these ridiculous conspiracy theories are proven to be false, as they unquestionably will be?
Do you honestly think that someone went to all the trouble of forging this stuff, and those are the juiciest details they could think to include? And not only that, but they were clumsy enough to forge it with MS Word? 
Smell the desperation, people...there's no way to spin how bad this looks, so they cry forgery. Anything to change the subject... |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 810
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 4:39 pm: | |
You'll see.
Did you even look at the docs?
Do you honestly believe that they were typed in 1973?
You'll see. |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 213
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 5:05 pm: | |
You'll see.
Michael, this line of nonsense didn't even make it through the day:
http://www.thetalentshow.org/archives/001216.html
Even the White House doesn't believe they're forged. Surprise! Not everything Sean Hannity says is true.
Did you even look at the docs?
I did. Did you?
Do you honestly believe that they were typed in 1973?
Do you honestly not understand that word processors were designed to mimic typewriters as closely as possible?
You'll see.
I've seen. When will you?
This forgery argument is especially shortsighted because:
a) it is easily disproven
b) once it is disproven, you're still left having to explain away the contents of the documents. If you had any kind of way to do that in the first place, it wouldn't matter if the docs were forged or not.
The wingers are really 'round the bend on this one... |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 811
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 5:07 pm: | |
Like I said, You'll see. |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 215
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, September 9, 2004 - 5:08 pm: | |
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singlemalt
Citizen
Username: Singlemalt
Post Number: 373
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 7:54 am: | |
Take a few minutes and type the exact document into Microsoft Word. If you do this, it is obvious to anyone the documents are a complete fake (unless Microsoft released MS Word in 1972). CBS will need to find a CYA position prior to admitting their mistake.
http://www.drudgereport.com/cbsd.htm |
singlemalt
Citizen
Username: Singlemalt
Post Number: 374
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 7:58 am: | |
ABC News is now all over this as well...
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/Politics/Vote2004/bush_documents_040909-1.html |
Madden 11
Citizen
Username: Madden_11
Post Number: 222
Registered: 12-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 8:24 am: | |
I hear Drudge got it from John Kerry's mistress. |
yabbadabbadoo
Citizen
Username: Yabbadabbadoo
Post Number: 75
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:08 pm: | |
Point/Couterpoint
You decide.
FF |
mrosner
Citizen
Username: Mrosner
Post Number: 1513
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:36 pm: | |
Remember this story about forged documents?
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/03/14/sprj.irq.documents/ |
Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1198
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 3:39 pm: | |
The Constitution is a fake!!!
http://www.fakeconstitution.50megs.com/ |
bobk
Citizen
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 6094
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, September 10, 2004 - 5:53 pm: | |
The thing that I get hung up on as far is the documents are concerned is that it ain't hard to find an old 1960s or early seventies typewriter.
Hell, we have two in the attic left over from college and expect other posters are in the same position, kiddie corp excluded.  |
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