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Message |
    
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 348
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 7:21 am: |     |
Former President Jimmy Carter's recent rantings about the upcoming presidential elections in Florida, coming on the heels of his attempt to legitimize the obviously fraudulent Venezuelan referendum reeks of duplicity. Carter has become a national embarrassment. Along with Jesse Jackson and Ramsey Clarke, Carter completes a triad bordering on treasonous. He should do what any good carpenter would do: Put a ten penny nail between his hips and shut his mouth. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 3872
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 8:33 am: | |
You forgot to mention that he was buddy-buddy with the North Korean dictator.
Or did you only get the summary version of today's talking points?
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Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 349
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 8:56 am: | |
Let me get this straight Nohero. When the truth becomes painfully unbearable or indefensible, it morphs into "talking points". |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 3873
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:06 am: | |
No, that's not it. Look, Carter is either right, or he's wrong, about the upcoming voting procedures in Florida. If he's wrong, there are no doubt people with information who can point that out.
Instead, the massed minions just hop up and down and scream "Carter likes Chavez", or "Traitor", which has absolutely nothing to do with whether his opinion about Florida is correct. It's a distraction - and it spread so quickly, it's obviously a "talking point".
But, on to more important things, like that bitchin' tan that Kerry picked up in Florida ... |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 350
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:15 am: | |
Pardon the typo. Original post should read lips, not hips. |
Nohero
Citizen
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 3874
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:22 am: | |
Well, that did sound a little painful.  |
Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 68
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 9:40 am: | |
I can't believe we are going after Carter who I think is doing a wonderful job as a public servant because he's educating the public about issues that matter to us. i'd actually go to the extent of saying that he's one of the wise old men of American politics, so more power to him. He has the right to comment on the Florida fiasco as much as he does on the state of political affairs in Latin America. He is not an absolutist but will call a spade a spade. He is aware of the violence and suffering that the US has wreaked on some Latin American countries in the past in the name of bringing about "democracy," "free market enterprise" and fighting the "war on drugs" in those nations, some of which are now I'd say are bannana republics - the most inegalitarian societies in the world. We have been adept, manipulative, and short-sighted at propping up dictatorships worldwide; take a look around and you'll know what i'm talking about. This is the truth. Yet, we have the moral gumption to talk about exporting democracy to the rest of those poor souls in the Third World who have to be saved from themsleves and a dictator who is paradoxically,in the past or the present, been supported by US. On occasions we have scuttled democratically held elections that are flawed in their own ways or sponsored to coups to bring down democratically elected leaders. Here's an example; Saddam took over power in Iraq in 1979, thanks to the CIA. We are the most hypocritical nation in the world and it's time to face that reality.
These are points that came to me when i was talking to myself. |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 352
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:17 pm: | |
In the fall of 2002, when it was announced that Jimmy Carter had been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, Gunnar Berge, chairman of the Nobel Prize committee, told the media that Carter's prize "should be interpreted as a criticism of the line that the current administration has taken...It's a kick in the leg to all who follow the same line as the United States." Did ex-President Carter repudiate or disavow such a virulent anti-American statement? Hardly. In acknowledgement of the award, Carter said "...I'm very grateful and honored by this."
When George H.W. Bush was assembling a broad coalition to expel Saddam Hussein from Kuwait in 1991, Carter expressed his opposition saying it would be "a massive, self destructive, almost suicidal war."
In November of 1990, unbeknownst to the Bush administration, Carter wrote to several heads of state including Francois Mitterrand, Margaret Thatcher, Mikhail Gorbachev and more than 10 other leaders, calling for the U.N. Security Council to stop the United States from launching a military campaign.
On January 10, 1991, Carter wrote to Saudi Arabia's King Fahd, Egypt's Hosni Mubarak and Syria's Hafez Assad, urging them to break from the assembled coalition to oust Hussein. "You have to forego approval from the White House, but you will find the French, Soviets and others fully supportive."
Just prior to the 2003 invasion to liberate Iraq, Carter wrote in the N.Y. Times that the prospective war violated Christian teaching on just war. Never before had a former President criticized a sitting President on the brink of war as acting immorally.
Yeah Musty, Carter's doing a wonderful job as a public servant. It's just a question of which public he's serving.
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George W Bush
Citizen
Username: Mondale
Post Number: 93
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:20 pm: | |
Carter is the worst President in American history. This is why Europe loves him. They love pathetic Americans. Makes them feel superior. It also explains their dislike of Bush. |
Wendyn
Citizen
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 826
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:24 pm: | |
That is possibly the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. |
Guy
Citizen
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 181
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:28 pm: | |
Sould we add that Brother Jimmy weakened the Shah by forcing him to release political prisoners and allow anti government assemblies while Jimmy embraced Khomaniac. Mr Peanut also dealt with the Russians during the Reagan years to try and undermine the President. Yeah, great American |
George W Bush
Citizen
Username: Mondale
Post Number: 94
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:47 pm: | |
Wendyn,
You seem very sweet and I'm sure thanks to your husband you live very comfortably. I'm sure someone like you looks out for number one and rightfully so. As a result you can cut out this liberal help the world b.s. It's just not you. |
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 1328
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:51 pm: | |
Sounds like something the real George W Bush would say. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
Nails, please, give it a rest. This is getting so tiresome... someone criticizes the administration or in some way suggests that things are less than great and the immediate response is to attack him. Isn't the issue that Carter is addressing important? Isn't ensuring fair elections one of the most critical responsibilities of government? |
Duncan
Real Name
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 3027
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 1:58 pm: | |
Hey Straw..uh.. George.. it is the real Wendy.
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George W Bush
Citizen
Username: Mondale
Post Number: 95
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:03 pm: | |
boring (not you DR) |
Wendyn
Citizen
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 828
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:12 pm: | |
George,
1. I have never been mistaken for "sweet" (ask Duncan, he knows me). But thanks.
2. My husband does help me live comfortably. And since I made more than he did until about a month ago I know he appreciates me helping him be comfortable with his DirecTV with NFL package. You're welcome, honey.
3. Actually the number one (and two) people I look out for are my kids. Since I don't want THEM to be paying for the debt incurred during MY tax paying lifetime, I am voting for John Kerry.
At this point Europeans have a right to feel superior. They didn't vote "you" into office. |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 353
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:19 pm: | |
Some excerpts from Jimmy's "malaise" speech:
"It's clear that the true problems of our nation are much deeper-deeper than gasoline lines or energy shortages, deeper than even inflation or recession. And I realize more than ever that as President, I need your help."
"I want to talk to you right now about a fundamental threat to American democracy."
"The threat is nearly invisible in ordinary ways. It is a crisis of confidence. It is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. We can see this crisis in the growing doubt about the meaning of our own lives and in the loss of a unity of purpose for our nation."
"The erosion of our confidence in the future is threatening to destroy the social and political fabric of America."
"We've always had faith that the days of our children would be better than our own. Our people are losing that faith, not only in government itself, but in the ability as citizens to serve as the ultimate rulers and shapers of our democracy."
"But just as we are losing our confidence in the future, we are also beginning to close the door on our past."
"In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption."
"The symptoms of this crisis of the American spirit are all around us."
"As you know, there is a growing disrespect for government and for churches and for schools, the news media and other institutions. This is not a message of happiness or reassurance, but it is the truth and it is a warning."
That's some pep speech. The guy's a regular Tony Robbins.
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George W Bush
Citizen
Username: Mondale
Post Number: 96
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:19 pm: | |
Wendy darling,
If you want your kids to be safe make sure Kerry has a plan to stop terrorists from striking U.S soil again. So far he has yet to share any of his ideas. However, he does have a Universal Health care plan that if enacted will cost about 800 billion dollars. So before you cry national debt, I'd beware..(if I were you)
Is Duncan cool in person? On line he seems super cool! |
Michael Janay
Citizen
Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 867
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:26 pm: | |
I understand that you don't want to burden your kids with debt... but what do you want to do? Better yet, what does Kerry want to do?
Our National Debt INCREASED dramatically during the years of the Clinton Budget Surplus. HAving a budget surplus or deficit means little to nothing when it comes to national debt.
Kerry wants to cut the DEFICIT (so do I and so does GWB for that matter), the Debt will continue to grow regardless since he proposes more and more entitlements (thats what really causes the debt).
If you want your kids to have less of a national debt, you need to elect people that will cut government entitlement programs. Good luck to anyone running on that platform.
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Mark Fuhrman
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 660
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:28 pm: | |
Guy, Carter said what conservatives have been saying for years--that we have lost our moral center, lost touch with our founding values, and it is affecting our society. I think you are more upset with the messenger than the message, given your usual fealty to conservative ideology. |
Guy
Citizen
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 183
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:33 pm: | |
Mark, I didn't post the speech, Heybub did. You are right though , I don't like the messenger. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:35 pm: | |
Heybub... would you rather he told you what he really thinks -- which you can then take or leave as you see fit, or told you what he thinks you want to hear -- which is what both Kerry and Bush tend to do (Bush being far more guilty of it)? |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 354
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:46 pm: | |
Notey, my point is that in July of 1979, with inflation at 15% and stagnant economic growth, Americans needed a cheerleader, not a chicken little. Contrast the failure of his gloom and doom approach with the phenomenal success of his optimistic successor. |
George W Bush
Citizen
Username: Mondale
Post Number: 97
Registered: 9-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:52 pm: | |
and of course killing the dreams of U.S. athletes was logical. |
notehead
Citizen
Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 2:54 pm: | |
Okay, Heybub, I'll give you that.  |
Wendyn
Citizen
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 830
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 3:11 pm: | |
Duncan is very cool in person. Super cool in fact. And I am sucking up so I can get a part in his new movie. |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 355
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 3:11 pm: | |
Thanks N.H. and best wishes this weekend. |
Guy
Citizen
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 184
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 3:19 pm: | |
Yeah, Notey, best of luck with the wedding. Congrats. |
Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 69
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 3:26 pm: | |
That's what I meant by the "mainstreaming" effect that TV has on us. The more TV we watch, the more oour chatting sounds like we've been watching too much TV; your's truly included. Sorry for the digression, but where does Carter figure in all this? The man has vanished and yet, we have a thread after the former President. Whatever happened to his take on the second season of "Voting in Florida?" Tsch, tsch, what are we coming to! Isn't it sadly ironical thatReagan who is gone but not forgotten (neither is he forgiven) is someone who we will talk about till the cows home,YET, we can trash a living soul that is Carter and the good work he is doing in terms of negotiating peace and resolving conflicts. Come ON!
Now, in addition to the Clinton haters, I've to add the Carter haters to my hate list! The Bush haters are laready at the top of my list. No, actually, I belong to the "Anybody But Bush" group but i hope Kerry kicks Bush' butt tomorrow. I used to live in Massachusetts when he kicked Weld's and so hold your breath.......for Bush.
I think, therefore I hate. Thus, began the "talking point."
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Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 356
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 3:58 pm: | |
"The man has vanished and yet, we have a thread after the former President"
Vanished? Are you kidding Musty? The man is such a craven publicity hound, he puts Chuck Schumer to shame. It's become obvious that Carter will do or say anything, no matter how baseless, to stay in the limelight.
"YET, we can trash a living soul that is Carter and the good work he is doing in terms of negotiating peace and resolving conflicts. Come ON!"
Is that "Come ON!" a come on? Have you even read my posts Musty, or should I continue to enumerate ad nauseum Saint Jimmy's transgressions till it sinks in. I've kept my powder dry so far, but I've got plenty of ammo. |
Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 4:07 pm: | |
Just pull the trigger, will you, Heybubby? |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 357
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 29, 2004 - 4:12 pm: | |
 |
themp
Citizen
Username: Themp
Post Number: 986
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 10:30 am: | |
Whenever I see G W Bush "clearing brush" on his ranch, I think of Carter's memoir. Carter did more farmwork by age 10 than W has done in his whole life. Does that matter? Not really, unless posing with farm tools is important. |
scribbler
Citizen
Username: Scribbler
Post Number: 77
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 2:26 pm: | |
Thank you Heybub, for posting those quotes from Carter. I think they supported the "Pro-Carter" point of view much better than your own. He came closer to speaking the truth than any president since, in or out of office. He wasn't my favorite President but since leaving office I think he has done nothing but good. Is anyone who works for what they believe in a "craven publicity hound"? Or is it just the people you don't like. Now the Govenor of California, there's a craven publicity hound! |
Heybub
Citizen
Username: Heybub
Post Number: 360
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, September 30, 2004 - 2:53 pm: | |
Scribbler, if you think Carter has done nothing but good since leaving office, I would ask you to refer to my post #352. You can add to the list how Carter openly sought to subvert Reagan's successful policy toward the Soviet Union. How about how he derailed Clinton's position with North Korea? |
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