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Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1246 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:01 am: |    |
Some big deals were made in the press about the Document of understanding. I wondered if people were watching for how much those things related to the debate. The Candidates had to appear the same height. I thought this made Bush’s podium look bigger. Bush talked longer then the time allots (Little lights) more often but Kerry’s total time may have been longer. Kerry took a lot of notes, bush didn’t Bush stole a couple seconds from Kerry when they joked about their daughters. Neither of the Candidates stopped much before their allotted time. There was one point where Kerry made a Super point in about 5 seconds. I thought he should have stopped. It looked to me like the 30 second rebuttal was handed to Kerry, but Bush had to ask for it. (I noticed twice) I tried to stick to the debate document and not bash one guy or the other. What else did you see?
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Mark Fuhrman
Citizen Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 669 Registered: 9-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:07 am: |    |
The podium height made Bush look much smaller than Kerry. Bush did ask twice for the 30 second rebuttal, but I wondered a few times why Kerry did not ask for it more. It seems like he let some chances to get the last word in. The next debate--town hall style--should play to Bush more. He is much more comfortable moving around like a talk show host. |
   
Guy
Citizen Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 200 Registered: 8-2004

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:11 am: |    |
Slit screen showed Bush's podium higher than Kerry's to compensate for height difference. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1247 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:23 am: |    |
Right but I saw it as Bush's podium was bigger, Mark saw it as Bush looked smaller. |
   
Robert Livingston
Citizen Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 140 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:40 am: |    |
Body language was very interesting. Bush was hunched, while Kerry stood straight. Bush asked for more time, then had nothing to say. He was a bumbling idiot at times. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1249 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:46 am: |    |
I was hoping not to get the "bumbling idiot " comment, that's why I said "Non Partisan" Bush did look hunched. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1250 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:50 am: |    |
Bush also only said Senator Kerry twice. Every other time he said “My Challenger” Kerry often said “This President”. Not "The President" |
   
MHD
Real Name Username: Mayhewdrive
Post Number: 1633 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:53 am: |    |
Question - were all channels showing the exact same "view"? (i.e. did all channels show the split screen) I flipped channels & thought some channels were just showing one person at a time. On ABC, it was the split screen & I thought Bush looked angry when Kerry "attacked", while Kerry smiled when Bush "attacked". (obviously better than Gore's sighing) |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1251 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:55 am: |    |
I watched on Fox and I think we were all watching the same thing. I agree with the Attacked part. |
   
Duncan
Real Name Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 3046 Registered: 12-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:58 am: |    |
The Town Hall debate is scary. It is decreed that the audience must submit their questions in writing, and then if they deviate in any from what was written they will be cut off. So throw spontaneous debate out the window in an event that is supposed to be ...spontaneous. As for last night. I noticed lack of real enforcement of time limits. |
   
Robert Livingston
Citizen Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 141 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:00 am: |    |
Kerry handled the clock better. Bush seemed to run out of things to say before time was up. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1252 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:07 am: |    |
That was my earlier question. Why do they use up every second? Kerry nailed one quick (Wish I remember it) I tought it would have been great if he just stopped then |
   
notehead
Citizen Username: Notehead
Post Number: 1542 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:12 am: |    |
I think Kerry must have been very specifically warned not to give the "Al Gore sigh" -- he did tend to keep a pretty neutral or interested expression most of the time. Bush's face was more emotional, like he was eager to retort right away, but knew he would have to wait his turn. On channel 13 they did not have any split screens, although there were a number of shots from the side that showed both candidates. Since Fox supplied all the video feed, I was concerned that there would somehow be some effort to frame Bush in a more positive manner, but I couldn't discern anything like that. I agree that Kerry handled the clock better. He always gave an immediate, direct, short answer to the question, before elaborating, and then he always had a clean cut-off at the end of his time. Although both guys repeated themselves, Bush did that more frequently, and I think Kerry was able to work his repeated statements into his answer more effectively, while Bush would say "like I said before," which suggests that he couldn't find any additional points to make. |
   
ffof
Citizen Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2885 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:43 am: |    |
or he would resort to this whine..."it's hard work runnin' the country" or "we're workin hard"...like he was complaining about his job or his homework. |
   
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen Username: Amie
Post Number: 71 Registered: 6-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:46 am: |    |
One of the bloggers is offering upwards of $5000 to ask Bush at the town-meeting how many times he's been arrested. |
   
Robert Livingston
Citizen Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 143 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:47 am: |    |
Give both of them credit for avoiding low-blow, silly one-liners. It was a solid debate without cheap shots. |
   
ffof
Citizen Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2886 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 11:53 am: |    |
I disagree - Bush's silly one-liner is the one about "wrong war, wrong place, right...wrong time". And he also tried to create a new soundbite..the one about "mikshed messages", but it was to much of a tongue twister. |
   
Foj
Citizen Username: Foger
Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 12:01 pm: |    |
I dont recall Kerry ever asking for the 30 second rebuttal. Bush stated that China would walk away --If the US called for bi-lateral talks, Patently untrue. China has requested Bi-lateral talks---the US has refused. Bush confusing Osama and Saddam---also Iraq and Afganistan--is distrubing. Bush talking in circle's -- Wrong war, wrong time etc. Was again disturbing. As Was asking for the 30 seconds and then not knowing what to say--- |
   
Joe
Citizen Username: Gonets
Post Number: 403 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 12:10 pm: |    |
Robert, I agree. They were both dignified and this debate, for me, was better than expected. I enjoyed it very much. Call it lowered expectations, but there were times that I was impressed with the president. Not enough to vote for him. In the early going Bush seemed to treat this like another speech on the campaign trail. He was actually yelling. He did settle down, but I think he's gotten accustomed to staged political events where the goal is to throw out sound-biteable bits of rhetoric which go unchallenged. Kerry's open questioning of his decisions, clearly raised the president's hackles and, from my perspective, Bush conveyed a sense of "who the hell does this guy think he is?" I wonder how that demeanor affects the opinion of undecideds. I'm not going to get all excited about this debate. I think Kerry clearly won it, but it remains to be seen whether a good performance ina debate will do much to improve Kerry's chances. Plus, I'm sure Rove's minions burned the midnight oil extracting statements from Kerry that can be used against him. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1253 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 12:11 pm: |    |
I was very glad Bush didn't say Flip Flop |
   
Joe
Citizen Username: Gonets
Post Number: 404 Registered: 2-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |    |
Come on Brett. I'm sure you used that bit of rhetoric against Kerry at some time. Are you flip flopping? |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1254 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |    |
No, I use the term all the time I was just glad Bush didn't |
   
Albatross
Citizen Username: Albatross
Post Number: 30 Registered: 9-2004

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 1:09 pm: |    |
Bush was very careful not to use 'flip-flop,' but he did call attention to how his challenger changed his position and was not a steadfast person. One striking thing I noticed: While Bush spoke, Kerry was either looking at Bush or taking notes. While Kerry spoke, Bush looked all over the place, including away from Kerry. |
   
Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1255 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 1:15 pm: |    |
Albatross: I thought diffrently, I remember Bush looking at Kerry listening to everything, while Kerry looked at his notes most of the time. Weird I thought while talking Kerry looked at the moderator while Bush look at hte crowd and cameras |
   
Robert Livingston
Citizen Username: Rob_livingston
Post Number: 157 Registered: 7-2004
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 2:05 pm: |    |
Why did Bush say Kerry's Iraq plan wouldn't work, as opposed to saying that Kerry's plan was the same as his plan? |
   
harold
Citizen Username: Harold
Post Number: 220 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 2:10 pm: |    |
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Brett
Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 1256 Registered: 7-2003
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 2:33 pm: |    |
Harold there's other threads for stupid . |
   
anon
Citizen Username: Anon
Post Number: 1418 Registered: 6-2002
| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 5:45 pm: |    |
I think Jim Lehrer did an excellent job. |
   
Mark Fuhrman
Citizen Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 673 Registered: 9-2001

| Posted on Friday, October 1, 2004 - 10:14 pm: |    |
I don't think this debate changed many undecided minds (at least not the people I spoke to today). But it did stop his slide. Now, instead of being defined by Bush and not defining himself very well, Kerry is seen as substantial in his own right. Even Fox et al say this. He now has a chance of swaying undecideds in the next debate, IF he performs as well as he did here and IF Bush is as weak as he was here. But the Town Hall forum with fixed questions may show Bush in a better light. At least it is now a horse race. The battle is finally joined. |
   
Michael Janay
Citizen Username: Childprotect
Post Number: 896 Registered: 1-2003

| Posted on Saturday, October 2, 2004 - 12:04 am: |    |
This was a battle for soundbites to use against each other and the Bush campaign clearly won. The Bush campaign got 3 major Kerry quotes that Kerry is already trying to do damage control on and Kerry got smirks that most guys in middle america think was Bush's way of saying "you a-hole", and they like it because they were smirking at Kerry's answers too. |
   
ffof
Citizen Username: Ffof
Post Number: 2891 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Saturday, October 2, 2004 - 10:36 am: |    |
ahhh, so statesman-like. |
   
Dave
Citizen Username: Dave
Post Number: 82 Registered: 4-1998

| Posted on Saturday, October 2, 2004 - 12:13 pm: |    |
If the smirking was an intentional play to his core supporters, he should probably get better advice, like "it's the undecideds who will sway the election." I think what we saw was someone so outmatched in the brains department he was panicky. I'd like to get Gladwell's take on Bush's simian face dances. http://www.gladwell.com/2002/2002_08_05_a_face.htm
quote: [....] "Mr. Philby," he is asked. "Mr. Macmillan, the foreign secretary, said there was no evidence that you were the so-called third man who allegedly tipped off Burgess and Maclean. Are you satisfied with that clearance that he gave you?" Philby answers confidently, in the plummy tones of the English upper class. "Yes, I am." "Well, if there was a third man, were you in fact the third man?" "No," Philby says, just as forcefully. "I was not." Ekman rewound the tape, and replayed it in slow motion. "Look at this," he said, pointing to the screen. "Twice, after being asked serious questions about whether he's committed treason, he's going to smirk. He looks like the cat who ate the canary." The expression was too brief to see normally. But at quarter speed it was painted on his face—the lips pressed together in a look of pure smugness. "He's enjoying himself, isn't he?" Ekman went on. "I call this—duping delight— the thrill you get from fooling other people." Ekman started the VCR up again. "There's another thing he does." On the screen, Philby was answering another question. "In the second place, the Burgess-Maclean affair has raised issues of great"— he pauses— "delicacy." Ekman went back to the pause, and froze the tape. "Here it is,"he said. "A very subtle microexpression of distress or unhappiness. It's only in the eyebrows— in fact, just in one eyebrow." Sure enough, Philby's right inner eyebrow was raised in an unmistakable A.U. one. "It's very brief," Ekman said. "He's not doing it voluntarily. And it totally contradicts all his confidence and assertiveness. It comes when he's talking about Burgess and Maclean, whom he had tipped off. It's a hot spot that suggests, 'You shouldn't trust what you hear.' " [....]
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