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Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 8395 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 10:27 am: |    |
Quote:THE brave seamen whose great voyages of exploration opened up the world are iconic figures in European history. Columbus found the New World in 1492; Dias discovered the Cape of Good Hope in 1488; and Magellan set off to circumnavigate the world in 1519. However, there is one difficulty with this confident assertion of European mastery: it may not be true. It seems more likely that the world and all its continents were discovered by a Chinese admiral named Zheng He, whose fleets roamed the oceans between 1405 and 1435. His exploits, which are well documented in Chinese historical records, were written about in a book which appeared in China around 1418 called “The Marvellous Visions of the Star Raft”. Next week, in Beijing and London, fresh and dramatic evidence is to be revealed to bolster Zheng He's case. It is a copy, made in 1763, of a map, dated 1418, which contains notes that substantially match the descriptions in the book. “It will revolutionise our thinking about 15th-century world history,” says Gunnar Thompson, a student of ancient maps and early explorers.
http://www.economist.com/books/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5381851 |
   
The Libertarian
Citizen Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1341 Registered: 3-2004

| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 1:13 pm: |    |
i thought columbus was number 3 anyway. 1. leif erikson 2. amerigo vespucci 3.columbus? |
   
monster
Supporter Username: Monster
Post Number: 1866 Registered: 7-2002

| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 1:51 pm: |    |
I always thought Columbus Day was a crock... I always thought it should be Leif Erikson day! http://www.mnc.net/norway/ericson.htm
Quote:Leif Ericson Columbus' Predecessor by Nearly 500 Years By Linn Ryne In 986, Norwegian-born Eirik Thorvaldsson, known as Eirik the Red, explored and colonized the southwestern part of Greenland. It was his son, Leiv Eiriksson, who became the first European to set foot on the shores of North America, and the first explorer of Norwegian extraction now accorded worldwide recognition. The date and place of Leiv Eiriksson's birth has not been definitely established, but it is believed that he grew up on Greenland. The Saga of Eric the Red relates that he set sail for Norway in 999, served King Olav Trygvasson for a term, and was sent back to Greenland one year later to bring Christianity to its people. There are two schools of thought as to the subsequent course of events. One of these is that Eiriksson, en route for Greenland, came off course, and quite by chance came to the shores of northwestern America in the year 1000, thus preceding Columbus by nearly 500 years. However, according to the Greenland Saga, generally believed to be trustworthy, Eiriksson's discovery was no mere chance. The saga tells that he fitted out an expedition and sailed west, in an attempt to gather proof of the claims made by the Icelandic trader Bjarni Herjulfsson. In 986 Herjulfsson, driven far off course by a fierce storm between Iceland and Greenland, had reported sighting hilly, heavily forested land far to the west. Herjulfsson, though believably the first European to see the continent of North America, never set foot on its shores. Leiv Eiriksson, encouraged by the current talk of potential discoveries, and the constant need of land to farm, bought Bjarni's ship and set off on his quest of discovery. He appears to have followed Bjarni's route in reverse, making three landfalls. The first of these he named Helluland, or Flat-Stone Land, now generally regarded as having been Labrador. The second was Markland, or Wood Land, possibly Newfoundland. The exact location of the third, which was named Vinland, is a matter of scholastic controversy, but it could have been as far north as northern Newfoundland or as far south as Cape Cod or even beyond this. Eiriksson and his men spent the winter in Vinland, at a place they named Leifsbud-ir, returning to Greenland the following year, 1001. It was left to Eiriksson's brother, Thorvald to make the next voyage to the new-found territory, for strange as it may seem, Leiv Eiriksson never returned there. Subsequent attempts at settlement of Vinland were unsuccessful, due to strong friction between the Viking settlers and the native North Americans. Though many still regard Christopher Columbus as the discoverer of the New World, Eiriksson's right to this title received the stamp of official approval in the USA when in 1964 President Lyndon B. Johnson, backed by a unanimous Congress, proclaimed October 9th "Leif Ericson Day" in commemoration of the first arrival of a European on North American soil.
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Dave
Supporter Username: Dave
Post Number: 8397 Registered: 4-1997

| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 2:07 pm: |    |
Or Native American day. |
   
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen Username: Casey
Post Number: 1866 Registered: 8-2003

| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 2:10 pm: |    |
yeah, it's really takes some chutzpah to claim you've "discovered" a place that already had people there. |
   
bill671
Citizen Username: Bill671
Post Number: 298 Registered: 6-2002
| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 2:47 pm: |    |
Wasn't Amerigo Vespucci the map maker who put his name somewhere other than the bottom corner of the map, and pasted his name on the Western Hemisphere? I'm pretty sure he was just mapping Chris's "discovery". |
   
SoOrLady
Citizen Username: Soorlady
Post Number: 2895 Registered: 9-2003
| Posted on Saturday, January 14, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |    |
And then there's: http://www.castletown.com/brendan.htm |
   
tom
Citizen Username: Tom
Post Number: 4210 Registered: 5-2001
| Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 11:58 am: |    |
Columbus gets credit, because the Norwegian settlements died out, and the Chinese discoveries didn't lead to any Chinese colonies. |
   
Bailey
Citizen Username: Baileymac
Post Number: 144 Registered: 3-2005
| Posted on Sunday, January 15, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |    |
Well, I'm a bit biased, being of Irish descent, but on one of my trips to Ireland, I learned about St Brendan, and saw a replica of his "ship", called a currach, which are still made in Ireland. SoOrLady's link explains that tales of St Brendan say his journey, which took 7 years, happened around 500 AD, 900 years before Columbus, and 400 years before Ericson. So, I think it should be Brendan Day!
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LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 2930 Registered: 5-2001

| Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 9:21 pm: |    |
Not sooo fast..... Storm over Chinese map of America BEIJING, China (Reuters) -- The Chinese are said to have discovered gunpowder, paper and the compass -- but it may be too early to claim they discovered America. A map purported to date from 1418 suggesting a Chinese fleet sailed to America decades before Christopher Columbus was displayed in Beijing on Monday, but the piece of yellowing paper is the center of a storm of criticism over its authenticity. The map, which is said to be an 18th-century copy of the 1418 original, shows both North and South America in unusual detail. It was bought in 2001 by Chinese lawyer and art collector Liu Gang, who says he did not realize its significance until reading a book by a British writer who claimed a Chinese admiral beat Columbus to the punch. Gavin Menzies, author of the bestseller "1421: the Year China Discovered America," says Admiral Zheng He led a fleet of 30,000 men aboard 300 ships to the American continent in the 15th century to expand Ming China's influence. "This map embodies information I believe will help us understand Zheng He's seventh voyage," Liu, who bought the map for $500, told a news conference. "The map shows us the Chinese explorer has been to America years before Columbus. The map also shows us the Chinese understanding of the entire world." Yet whether Zheng, a Muslim eunuch known to have sailed as far as southern Africa, beat Columbus to America by more than 70 years is bitterly debated. Some academics point to a score of inconsistencies in both the book and the map, saying, for example, the map uses language that does not fit the style of Ming China. "I'm inclined to think that it's a fake," said Geoff Wade, a visiting senior research fellow at the National University of Singapore. "There's absolutely no evidence that the Zheng He voyages went anywhere past the east coast of Africa." Historical records show that from 1405 to 1433, Zheng, under the orders of Emperor Zhu Di, led China's imperial Star Fleet on seven epic voyages. Now, Zheng's voyage was being used by the Chinese government for political purposes, as a way of showing the country's rising power would not threaten its neighbors, Wade said. "Zheng He is being pushed all over Asia as part of the Chinese foreign ministry's foreign policy, with the statement that Zheng He's voyages to Asia and beyond were peaceful," he told Reuters by telephone. Liu, who showed only a copy of the map, saying the insurance company would not let him take the real thing out of its bank vault, is convinced of its authenticity and says even Jesuit missionary Matteo Ricci based his maps on Zheng He's. Ricci is thought to be the first person to draw a map of the world for the Chinese in the 1500s. Liu says he believes his map could lead to more evidence supporting the claim the Chinese discovered America. "I strongly believe that other maps exist, that other books exist but people may not see their importance," he said. "I published this map to wake up those men." Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/01/16/china.us.zheng.reut/index.html
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Fight the power
Citizen Username: Tookiew
Post Number: 41 Registered: 12-2005
| Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 10:21 pm: |    |
We celebrate Columbus day only because Italians in the US became politically powerful enough to be sucked up to, as white ethnics. |
   
Innisowen
Citizen Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1343 Registered: 3-2004
| Posted on Monday, January 16, 2006 - 11:06 pm: |    |
Like Bailey above, I would rather give the credit to Brendan the Navigator. It's far more likely that he went to Madeira, if he went at all, unfortunately. And as for going in a currach, one of those, and I have been in a few, wouldn't get you as far as Rockall. IMHO |
   
Eponymous
Citizen Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:00 am: |    |
FWIW, Wikipedia says this about the holiday: Columbus Day is celebrated on the 2nd Monday in October. The first recorded celebration of Columbus Day in the USA was held by the Tammany Society, also known as the Colombian Order, in New York on October 12, 1792, marking the 300th anniversary of Columbus's landing in the Bahamas. Many Italian-Americans observe Columbus Day as a celebration of Italian-American heritage. Columbus Day was first celebrated by Italians in San Francisco in 1869, following on the heels of 1866 Italian celebrations in New York City. The first state celebration was in Colorado in 1905, and in 1937, President Franklin Delano Roosevelt set aside Columbus Day as a holiday in the United States. Since 1971, the holiday has been commemorated in the U.S. on the second Monday in October, the same day as Thanksgiving in neighboring Canada. Banks are almost always closed on this day, as are government offices. It is not, however, recognized by most private American employers as a day off from work. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/columbus_day> I don't think there were many Italian immigrants in NYC as early as 1792, nor in Colorado in 1905. I suspect other ethnic groups may have reasons to celebrate the event as well. (What's that large country in northern South America called again?) |
   
LW
Citizen Username: Lrw
Post Number: 60 Registered: 10-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |    |
I always found it ironic that Italy didn't have enough faith in Columbus to sponsor his voyages, which is why, as we all know, he had to go to King Ferdinand and Queen Isabela, not of Italy, in order to set out on his explorations. And now, many people regard Columbus Day, as an Italian- American holiday, or day to celebrate Italian heritage. Also, has anyone ever heard of, or read the books "They Came Before Columbus", by Dr Ivan Van Sertima; or "Before the Mayflower", by Lerone Bennett. In both books, the authors assert, and prove that there was an African presence in the Americas several hundreds of years before Columbus. |
   
John Caffrey
Citizen Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, January 17, 2006 - 10:21 pm: |    |
First of all, Chris may not have been Italian. There are no records of his birth or baptism in that city. The reason why Chris gets all the credit and Leif doesn't is because Colon brought back gold. All the Norse explorers brought back was tales of grapes. |
   
Eponymous
Citizen Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2004
| Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 1:25 am: |    |
Could CC also get credit because the early Viking settlement in Greenland ultimately failed (likely a result of cooling of the climate) as did any that Leif might have founded, while C's trip obviously led to more permanent European settlements? |
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