| Author | Message | ||
     maplewood fan Citizen Username: Mplwfan Post Number: 259 Registered: 4-2003  |
Del. Bob Marshall of Virgina has introduced a bill, HB 187, that would prohibit doctors and other licensed health professionals from assisting unmarried women with becoming pregnant. This would preclude lesbian couples from becoming a family through donor insemination, gay couples from becoming a family through surrogacy, unless the surrogate was married, and would even prevent a widow from being inseminated with her deceased husband's sperm or their embryos. I guess this would add new meaning to the name "Virgin"ia. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11895 Registered: 1-2003  |
Pretty strange to me, but maybe he doesn't hope it will pass but it's some sort of political move. I don't know what he hopes to accomplish. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1273 Registered: 3-2004  |
some people would display stats that show that children raised by such parents are more susceptible to later drug and alcohol abuse. they could then say that thesse people are more of a drain on the medicare system. this affects all of us, therefore it should be regulated and restricted in certain cases. i dont agree with these stats, but doesnt this attempt at restricting freedom sound familiar? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11896 Registered: 1-2003 |
Those statistics are probably true, but it isn't clear which is the cause and which is the effect. It could well be true that birth out of wedlock causes these problems, but I don't agree that we should regulate conception and birth. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1275 Registered: 3-2004 |
you miss the point | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11897 Registered: 1-2003 |
You mean the analogy to smoking in public accomodations? | ||
| Fruitcake Citizen Username: Fruitcake Post Number: 256 Registered: 9-2003 |
And you're the one who always knows better, right, Libby? The one who always gets the point? | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1276 Registered: 3-2004 |
no. i miss points. but thank you for jumping in with your unprovoked attack, who ever you are. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1277 Registered: 3-2004 |
You mean the analogy to smoking in public accomodations? now you got it! yay! | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6548 Registered: 5-2001  |
Yeah. I've heard that. Lesbians and gay men are especially skilled at raising drug addicts and alcoholics. In fact, every alcoholic and crackhead I know has gay parents. Oh, and don't get me started on those widows..... Now, would you like to quote the source for those stats or were you perhaps mixing them up with unintended teen pregnancies? The ones who are only assisted by penises? | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 11898 Registered: 1-2003 |
Not everything is a libertarian issue to me. It might be for you. But this one is to me. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 672 Registered: 3-2005 |
Why are any of you concerned with a bill introduced in the Virginia State House that has no chance of passing? Also maplewood fan - to refer to him as Del Marshall of Virginia is inproper. Since he is a Delegate from VA this is almost redundant. You should have said Virgina Delagate Marshall of Manassas. Were you trying to make it sound like he was a member of the U.S. House of Reps? | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5531 Registered: 12-2001  |
DOugw...People are concerned for the same reason that people were concered with Oregon's Death with Dignity Act. Which, while much more realistic than the aforementioned proposal from the good Delagate Marshall from Manassas, still would be a precedent against which other legislation could be measured. It is a scary little bit of politicking and involves far too much gray area to be taken seriously. But I think people are concerned because they see a broader issue being raised, not just " a bill introduced in the Virginia State House that has no chance of passing." | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2488 Registered: 6-2002 |
First, In the North we call it Bull Run. Second, Will the rest of us be allowed to assist single women to become pregnant? | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 6553 Registered: 5-2001 |
Apparently, as long as you are not a licensed medical professional...... Turkey baster? Oh. You mean that way.  | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1281 Registered: 3-2004 |
Now, would you like to quote the source for those stats or were you perhaps mixing them up with unintended teen pregnancies? The ones who are only assisted by penises? my post was a hypothetical, to create an analogy, to make a point. i thought it was obvious. relax. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10246 Registered: 5-2001 |
Actually, the bill probably has a good chance of passing in Virginia. I hope the Governor has the cajones to veto it, although it would be interesting to see how the 4th Circuit and ultimately our new Supreme Court would rule on this. I admit to thinking Delegate Marshall was Congressman Marshall. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 674 Registered: 3-2005 |
Hey Maplewood Fan - you tricked Bob K into thinking this was a national bill - happy with your deception? | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 536 Registered: 6-2003 |
You know there needs to be two republican parties in this county. The regular old GOP that believes government should stay out of people's business (and I don't just mean commerce) and a new party theat believes that their paternalistic view of the world should dictate how the rest of us live our lives. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10250 Registered: 5-2001 |
...and probably two Democratic parties as well. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 676 Registered: 3-2005 |
The U.S. constitution expects a two party system, at least for Presidential elections. I am proud to be a member of the Republican party that has a big tent. We do not have litmus tests for membership and are open to discussion. I do not want to see the party split into pieces. | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 537 Registered: 6-2003 |
Yes but to get people into your Tent you actively recruit and celebrate biggots like Trent Lott and people who thrive on hate speach and discrimination like Pat Robertson and David Duke. You would welcome Nazis if they projected well on TV and had deep pockets. there is nothing noble about your big tent ideology. And, in terms of welcoming other ideass, the GOP makes no secret of aggressively working against moderate GOPers like Snow and Chaffe because their views are too centrist to fit under your tent. the dems don't always make me proud but they've never made me ashamed of the groups who come into their tent . Unless you condone racism, sexism, gender descrimination, I don't think you can make the same claim. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 677 Registered: 3-2005 |
CageyD you are a Dem and you are giving the GOP advice on splitting up? Is that the only way you think you can win elections? | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 539 Registered: 6-2003 |
My point is republicans are screaming hypocrites. In one breath claiming they oppose govt interference in private matters and then turning around and telling me how to live. The real republicans - like the one I married - are true to repubilcan principles and don't sell themselves out for votes. Believe it or not doug there are more important things than "winning" like integrity and being able to look at yourself in the mirror. Yeah, I wish dems won more elections but I am not and never have been ashamed of them as a party. Again, you can not say that about the GOP, can you. | ||
| Duncan Supporter Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 5550 Registered: 12-2001 |
The is just a bit of cognitive dissonence in, on the one hand, claiming to be a party that wants to keep its paws off people's private matters and on the other, writing a law specific to a single person that interfers and is in direct conflict with the aforementioned claim. The Dems are not perfect. Never have been. But my father was a republican and even he would blush at the state of the national party now. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 1136 Registered: 7-2002 |
I thought the Republicans were pro-life? | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1296 Registered: 3-2004 |
as long as it isnt an iraqi civilian | ||
| MBJ Citizen Username: Mbj Post Number: 80 Registered: 10-2005 |
Since you state that "republicans are screaming hypocrites", does that mean your husband, who is a subset of republicans (apparently he's a "real republican") is a hypocrite too? | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 678 Registered: 3-2005 |
Duncan - what are referring to in writing a law specific to a single person. shoshannah - Not all Republicans are pro-lfe. The former Governor of NJ, Whitman, the Mayor of New York, Bloomberg, the Governor of New York, Pataki and the Governor of CA, Schwarzanegger are all pro-choice Republicans. The Dems are the one with a litmus test to join the party. There are gay Republicans, black Republicans (even though they are excluded from the Congressional Black Cacus), religious Reps, athiest Reps. We are the party that includes all Americans, not just thoes concentrated in a few cities. CageyD - I have never been ashamed to be a Republican. Being a Republican is not my religion, it is not my belief system, my Roman Catholic faith is. Being a Democrat you probably do not believe in God and therefore have to define yourself in other more eathly ways like your job and your politics. I do not defend many Republicans positions on many topics. However I think I can find common ground with them and move that common agenda ahead. The GOP looks for things that unites us. Dems look for belief tests in order to exclude people. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 10256 Registered: 5-2001 |
Doug, how about the primary fight last year to unseat Arlen Specter from the Senate based primarily on his pro choice stand. Uhm, and what happened to the Log Cabin Republicans when they got steam rollered on the gay marriage amendment and excluded from various state conventions? | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 679 Registered: 3-2005 |
BobK - it is a political party and all the different factions fight for control. The point is that Specter is pro-choice and Republican and the Log Cabin are gay and Republican. I think you will see both these groups influence grow in the GOP in the next decade. The GOP has a lot of disagreement (and dirty fighting) on these issues but then so does America as a whole. We better reflect the country than the Dems do with their exclusionary, black and white view of issues. Hooray for a big tent! | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1236 Registered: 5-2001 |
Dougw, do you really think the Republicans will move to the left? That's what they will have to do in order to include the Log Cabin and pro-choicers in a real way. Right now, the anti-evolution faction is in charge. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 680 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dave23 - I think a mistake that Dems make is that all politics happens in D.C. If you look at GOP at the state and local level you see a much more moderate party. Also don't forget the liberal bias of most media and the right wing bias of Fox. Both of these would prefer to focus on stories about the right wing of the GOP. In short my answer is yes. Especially if Pataki (or Guliani) was elected President (I am not betting on it). Lastly the greatest President of recent time, Reagan was a social moderate. Please Lord - give us another Reagan to unite the GOP and smite the Dems. Amen. | ||
| maplewood fan Citizen Username: Mplwfan Post Number: 262 Registered: 4-2003 |
"Being a Democrat you probably do not believe in God" dougw What kind of statement is this? IMHO It's up near the top of the most ridiculous comments on MOL! Reagan a social moderate - were you sleeping during the 80's? This is the President who never said "AIDS" in public! This while thousands of Americans were dying from the disease. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 681 Registered: 3-2005 |
Maplewood Fan - your back! - you did not answer my question above if you were happy to have mislead BobK. Answer mine and I'll answer yours. | ||
| maplewood fan Citizen Username: Mplwfan Post Number: 263 Registered: 4-2003 |
"Del. Bob Marshall of Virgina" - since the US doesn't have delegates on a Federal level, I rearranged his title from an article on the subject. I guess I should have written Robert and used his middle name to be fully accurate. No intention to mislead anyone - unlike your big tent comments. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 684 Registered: 3-2005 |
I was not asleep for most of the 80's. Did Mondale mention AIDS in his campagin or is this just a Monday morning quarterback issue? Does Barack Obama support allowing Black GOP members to participate in strategy sessions of the Congressional Black Cacus? (I am assuming he is a member of the Cacus) | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1237 Registered: 5-2001 |
doug, Moderate like Del. Bob Marshall of Virgina? There are moderates on both sides at the local level. Gov. Warner leaps to mind. There's no way Giuliani or Pataki will get the GOP nomination. Same with McCain. The extreme right wing owns the national party right now. | ||
| dave23 Citizen Username: Dave23 Post Number: 1238 Registered: 5-2001 |
doug, Obama is not a member. He's a Senator. | ||
| dougw Citizen Username: Dougw Post Number: 685 Registered: 3-2005 |
Dave23 - You mean Virginia Delegate Marshall of Manassas? I don't agree with the guy at all. Don't underestimate the GOP's ability to pick a winner in 2008. |
