| Author | Message | ||
     Aok Citizen Username: Aok Post Number: 170 Registered: 6-2005 |
Today's Star Ledger has released its annual comparison of Town by Town Property Tax Change chart and once again Millburn leads with the highest average property taxes in the state. The top 5 town's are: Millburn $ 15,864 Mountain Lakes $ 15,257 Essex Fells $ 14,578 Mendham $ 14,180 Glen Ridge $ 14,022 and for Maplewood/SO readers Maplewood $10,128 South Orange $12,120 I've always thought it a shame that residents can only express their tax frustration by voting NO on their school budgets and referendums. I would love to have the right to vote approval on the state budget. What do other readers think? | ||
| CageyD Citizen Username: Cageyd Post Number: 543 Registered: 6-2003 |
I hope this information is transmitted to every NJ paper and news outlet. ONe thing that I think is going to stop us from ever having real property tax reform is the fact that it has been widely reported that NJ has the highest property taxes in the nation. THe result is I meet people from central/western/souther NJ who - having heard this statistic - complain about their "high" property taxes. When pressed about them they say "Oh, my taxes are $5000 and I only have 1.25 acres." Not all of NJ has excessive property taxes but the fact that it has been presented this way means that we (five towns mentioned above) will never see real reform because everyone in the state believes they too are overtaxed. Maybe the above referenced information will help people realize they are not the ones who are being overtaxed and are not the ones who REALLY NEED reform. | ||
| Miss L Toe Citizen Username: Miss_l_toe Post Number: 437 Registered: 10-2003 |
How are the figures compiled? Is it the 'mode' ie. most popular which is the amount that the majority of the householders pay? Or is it adding up all the amounts paid by the householders and dividing the sum up by the numbers of properties in the township? Some of the very largest properties in Short Hills have an annual tax bill of approx $90,000 per year (which I find astonishing) but some of the new McMansions going up are going on the market for an asking price of $5million and up. My tax last year was just over $12k....but I do live in a small house and the plot of land our house is on is worth more than the actual property. As far as I'm aware houses in Millburn-SH will be revaluated for taxes some time this year. | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 252 Registered: 6-2004 |
This stat is very misleading. It is driven in large part by the average value of the residences in the towns on the list. In other words, comparing Mendhan as a whole with Maplewood as a whole is a joke. I would venture a guess that the average selling price of a home in Mendham exceeds Maplewood by a fair margin. If you want to know how your tax structure compares with other towns, calculate the adjusted tax rate, i.e take the tax rate for each town and adjust it by the equalization ratio. The result is a rate which you could apply to the FMV of a house rather than the assessed value for comparison sake. All towns assess at a different percentage of fmv. Example: If the tax rate in a town is $4.00 per hundred and the equalization ratio is 75%, the adjusted tax rate is $3.00. However, the average tax bill for that town would be a function of the average value of the properties. I'm willing to bet that Mendham has a lower adjusted tax rate than Maplewood, and that the difference in the average bill has more to do with relative property value. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1346 Registered: 3-2004  |
http://reformschooltaxes.com/ http://www.lp.org/ | ||
| Aok Citizen Username: Aok Post Number: 171 Registered: 6-2005 |
Libertarian: Per SMART Bill: "A key word in the SMART Bill is "shift". School funding is shifted to distribute the school tax burden more fairly without the need to increase taxes overall." Its just that the "shift" would pretty much go to the residents of the 5 town's above so for them it will be a tax increase just coming out of a different pocket.....I think we need to reduce overall spending and I'd rather find the "pork" in the stae budget than each school budget.... | ||
| Arnomation Citizen Username: Arnomation Post Number: 453 Registered: 7-2003  |
Why do different towns pay different percentages of their property's estimated value? If you live in Essex Fells where the average house is valued at $1 Million they are only paying $14k in taxes which is less than 1% of their property's value but if you live in Irvington where the property values average $20k they are paying $5k which is 25% of the property's value. Why doesn't every town pay the same percentage? Do I not understand something that taxes are based on? | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2005 |
AOK- I AGREE WITH YOU. FIND THE PORK IN THE STATE AND THE COUNTY PORTIONS. ONE PROBLEM? CORZINE- SMALL SPENDER? JUST NAMED A LONG TIME FRIEND THE TREASURER POSITION. HERE WE GO...AGAIN. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 71 Registered: 12-2005 |
AOK - FIND THE REPORT ON AVG TAX RATES INTERESTING. DON'T KNOW ANYONE NEAR ME PAYING LESS THAN $16,000 ON THEIR MEAGER HOMES IN MAPLEBURN. PERHAPS ITS THAT THE TAXES REMAIN MUCH MUCH LOWER IN IVRINGWOOD. LEST ASK KING DELUCA = PREMIER OF THE WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION FIASCO IMPOSED ON THIS TOWN A FEW YEARS BACK. | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 3949 Registered: 12-2001  |
Why on Earth shouldn't Corzine name a friend or business associate to the position of Treasurer. Is he qualified for the job? That's all that matters. I like the fact that Corzine isn't particularly beholden to anybody and is not so desperate for cash that he will be easily influenced. Arnomation, property tax actual amounts are determined by the money needed divided by the tax property units in a town. The tax burden on each property is a function of its value relative to other properties. So, in a simple town where the tax levy required is $100 and there are four houses value at $1000, $2000, $3000, and $4000, the annual tax charges on these properties will be $10, $20, $30 and $40 respectively. | ||
| anon Supporter Username: Anon Post Number: 2497 Registered: 6-2002 |
I guess Corzine should have named a long-time enemy as State Treasurer. Or should he have chosen someone he doesn't know at all? What exactly does the State Treasurer do? All the US Treasurer does is sign dollar bills. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1354 Registered: 3-2004 |
being taxed based on the value of your home is taxation without representation. if the assumption is that everyone in town uses the town services equally then they should be taxed equally. to say, "you are rich, you have a bigger home, so you should pay more for town services", is absolute nonsense! | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8399 Registered: 4-1997  |
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| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4946 Registered: 10-1999  |
"Alberto" wrote = "AOK - FIND THE REPORT ON AVG TAX RATES INTERESTING. DON'T KNOW ANYONE NEAR ME PAYING LESS THAN $16,000 ON THEIR MEAGER HOMES IN MAPLEBURN. PERHAPS ITS THAT THE TAXES REMAIN MUCH MUCH LOWER IN IVRINGWOOD. LEST ASK KING DELUCA = PREMIER OF THE WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION FIASCO IMPOSED ON THIS TOWN A FEW YEARS BACK."Thanks for supplying the "Mapleburn" and "Irvingwood" labels. That tells me a lot about you. As for the difference in taxes paid - it's property values. Let me suggest to you the test I suggested back in "reval" days - look for a house on which the taxes paid are less than the taxes on your house, which you would gladly swap for your house. If you find one, then you may be over-paying, and should request an adjustment to your valuation. Until you find one (especially in "Irvingwood", as you've chosen to label the Hilton area), maybe you could tone down the class war stuff. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1957 Registered: 5-2001 |
"Until you find one (especially in "Irvingwood", as you've chosen to label the Hilton area), maybe you could tone down the class war stuff." Ya think? And now I know how much credence to give Alberto on his public creche complaints. As much weight as he is giving to dedicated citizens of our ENTIRE town. Wendy Lauter | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 2389 Registered: 5-2001 |
Arnomation, towns that have lower tax rates on residences are towns that can raise the income through taxes on business, such as malls, industries, etc. Maplewood has very little income generated from such sources. We don't have Rte 22 or the Livingston Mall or pharmaceutical companies here. Therefore we have to charge ourselves to pay for municipal and educational services at a higher rate. It does NOT mean that we spend more than those other towns, just that we have fewer non-residential resources for raising the necessary funds. | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1357 Registered: 3-2004 |
dave, i see the smilie. care to add anything constructive? or do you plan to continue to use someone's smily design as a replacement for cognitive thought and debate? i would love to hear your ideas to make a more equitable tax plan. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2463 Registered: 12-2001  |
Libertarians have two principles: complaining is weak, complain constantly. They never actually figure out how anything outside an Ayne Rand book works. That's why they are so funny. | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1959 Registered: 5-2001 |
I see a protest looming against themp. It will likely go something like this: Themp is cruel to libertarians. I will not respond to themp. Themp is ignorant of these issues and can only respond by insulting. I've had enough of themp. Is there anyone else out there who can come | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8402 Registered: 4-1997 |
It's natural not to like taxes. It actually takes some advanced cognitive abilities to realize taxes pay for services that keep society glued together. Hey, last prominent Libertarian I saw was advocating for doing away with airport searches. Put them in power and we won't even be able to have this debate. We'll all be dead. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 72 Registered: 12-2005 |
- Kind Deluca divided the town into 42 different zones- and it was a wealth transfer move. Perhaps we should all pay the average together- pay as you go.... | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1359 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hey, last prominent Libertarian I saw was advocating for doing away with airport searches. Put them in power and we won't even be able to have this debate. We'll all be dead. this is your answer? to mock rather than to contribute constructively. you should be proud.an adult with a valid opinion discusses things in a rational and constructive manner. a child, with no real understanding of the discussion, name calls and makes off-topic insults in an attempt to divert attention from their lack of understanding. which shall we be today? They never actually figure out how anything outside an Ayne Rand book works. That's why they are so funny. at least we can spell Ayn Rand. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 73 Registered: 12-2005 |
Nohero- pehaps its not the overpayment but the underpayment that is the issue- seems to have touched a button with you... | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8404 Registered: 4-1997 |
That is a valid response. That is who you advocate for office. Those are your policies. Libertarians deserve to be mocked (and, when done cleverly, derrided.) You're dangerous wackos. :-) | ||
| The Libertarian Citizen Username: Local_1_crew Post Number: 1360 Registered: 3-2004 |
That is a valid response. That is who you advocate for office. Those are your policies. Libertarians deserve to be mocked (and, when done cleverly, derrided.) You're dangerous wackos. :-) i am glad that you have decided to contribute to the discussion of property taxes. you are much to mature and intelligent to hide your ignorance about an issue with childish and ill informed insults. as for who i advocate for office, you have no clue. the fellow you refer to is not someone i supported. libertarians, much like republicans and democrats, have members with differing opinions on certain issues. but i know that you know that. i dont need to explain such a simple concept to someone with your debating skills. your information and debate on property taxes has really changed my opinion. thank you for your intelligent and concise input on the issue. | ||
| Nohero Supporter Username: Nohero Post Number: 4956 Registered: 10-1999 |
Alberto - Guess again. Tell us more about how you feel about the place you call "Irvingwood". | ||
| wendy Supporter Username: Wendy Post Number: 1960 Registered: 5-2001 |
"you are much to mature" If you're going to be so mature as to point out misspellings I may as well correct your grammar. It's TOO, got it? Re-test tomorrow. Study hard. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 8406 Registered: 4-1997 |
Property taxes? Need a convention. See Corzine. Sorry for sticking you with the Libertarian candidate. Didn't mean to do that. Don't know what made me want to align you with Libertarians. | ||
| sbenois Supporter Username: Sbenois Post Number: 14423 Registered: 10-2001  |
Alberto, I am fascinated by your "King DeLuca" concept. In your mind, when exactly did he dream up this wealth transfer idea? In the summer of 2001? Thanks. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 74 Registered: 12-2005 |
Wendy, If you want to make this a class issue- that is your problem. I make the point that King Deluca divided the town into two separate tax bases- do you remember the famous "neighbourhood" map and the "hot zones"? What "class" was attacked then? I don't think any class was particularly targeted. I do think the Mayor clearly divided the town on economic terms, deciding to use sales and property values to redistribute the wealth in this township. So, it is what it is. Sorry if it offended you- but the reality is the tax base reveals strong base differences that have now been created and relect the incredible differences that exist in this township. Would you agree for all to pay an average rate? | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2005 |
Wendy, If you want to make this a class issue- that is your problem. I make the point that King Deluca divided the town into two separate tax bases- do you remember the famous "neighbourhood" map and the "hot zones"? What "class" was attacked then? I don't think any class was particularly targeted. I do think the Mayor clearly divided the town on economic terms, deciding to use sales and property values to redistribute the wealth in this township. So, it is what it is. Sorry if it offended you- but the reality is the tax base reveals strong base differences that have now been created and relect the incredible differences that exist in this township. Would you agree for all to pay an average rate? | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 76 Registered: 12-2005 |
sorry about the double post. | ||
| themp Supporter Username: Themp Post Number: 2465 Registered: 12-2001 |
"Kind Deluca divided the town into 42 different zones" "King Deluca divided the town into two separate tax bases" Actually, I'm sincerely interested in this, what do you mean? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 3950 Registered: 12-2001 |
Alberto, Vic Deluca ordered an overdue revaluation that brought Maplewood more closely into compliance with property tax laws than was previously the case. The process had its problems. I suspect that Vic was as surprised as anybody at the impact of the revaluation. What Vic did not do was institute a transfer of wealth. That was done hundreds of years ago when the property tax laws were first enacted. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 77 Registered: 12-2005 |
tjohn, point well taken. Tell me, what was it like back then? | ||
| tjohn Supporter Username: Tjohn Post Number: 3951 Registered: 12-2001 |
I don't remember. I was very young. | ||
| stefano Citizen Username: Stefano Post Number: 474 Registered: 2-2002  |
No, it's all true. Vic created 42 districts. He worked secretly with the Triads and the Axe Gang. They used the Yunnan method of Kung Fu, particularly the Shrinking Room, Raising Dollar method. It's out now. No use pretending. Even when the FairTax group took it to court, the Axe Gang used the Folding Croissant method to intimidate the judge. Who could withstand all those buttery layers? dr stefano | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1873 Registered: 8-2003  |
considering my property taxes now exceed $20K, I believe I have credibility when I say that people who believe as Alberto does are full of claptrap. he and others don't speak for all of us in "Mapleburn." we don't necessarily like NJ's reliance on property taxes, but we understand why we pay more than others who live in homes that are valued less than ours. | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 78 Registered: 12-2005 |
"being taxed based on the value of your home is taxation without representation. if the assumption is that everyone in town uses the town services equally then they should be taxed equally. to say, "you are rich, you have a bigger home, so you should pay more for town services", is absolute nonsense" Clearly, libertarian is on the right track. However, when King Deloco devises a Maplewood comprised of 42 different neighbourhoods and assigns them "color" varients to describe the apparent "hot" targets, .... its really called a wealth transfer...noticeably, those who received a reduction in their taxes had no objection... | ||
| Alberto Citizen Username: Buckwheat Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2005 |
O'boggie- Your crap is your credibility. |
