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ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4366
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:58 am: |     |
http://www.norml.org/samsjourney.html |
John Caffrey
Citizen
Username: Jerseyjack
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 8:05 pm: | |
Great video. Please watch it and comment.
It is important in view of the Supreme's decision yesterday which allowed medically assisted suicide.
The marij. laws are another governmental infringement on our rights.
Libertarian -- are you out there? |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 803
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 9:15 pm: | |
That was a good video. It covered as much of the crusade against marijuana smokers as a song could. The laws on marijuana stem from a time of lies and propaganda. There needs to be reform, and I think that most Americans also believe this.
Some states have taken measures into their own hands. In fact, laws in New York City have decriminalized possession of small amounts of marijuana. There is no court appearance required and the fine is about the same as a jaywalking ticket.
Marijuana is very, very harmless and should be legal. However, I can understand the mentality of people in this country can be very hard to change. Especially when some people (Barry McCaffrey in particular) keep the myths of marijuana alive.
Sadly, also included in marijuana laws is hemp. There are many uses for hemp including food and paper to name only two of many purposes.
I am pretty well versed in this controversy, and would like to hear what other have to say on this topic.
As an interesting side note, marijuana was made illegal in large part as a racist act against Mexicans in the southern states as retaliation for "stealing jobs." |
shestheone
Citizen
Username: Shestheone
Post Number: 220
Registered: 5-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 9:21 pm: | |
Interesting...this link was blocked by my company. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 2876
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 9:55 pm: | |
I wonder what would happen if marijuana were completely legalized, and not just for medicinal use? Many of the people fighting for maryjane freedom might not get the world they want.
I am guessing large companies, like tobacco and alcohol producers, will jump quickly into the market with product--they probably already have brand names registered (Acapulco Gold from RJR). And government regulation would inevitably follow, because marijuana may contain carcinogens or will require testing regarding birth defects. And those large companies will be fine with this regulation because it drives up the cost, keeping small producers out of the market--it is an environment they are fine swimming in. Soon it will be as rare for people to grow dope in their backyard as it is for people to have stills brewing moonshine.
Yes, I see a brave new world where the very people who pushed for marijuana legalization soon are fighting against Big Maryjane, just as they fight Big Tobacco these days. |
bets
Supporter
Username: Bets
Post Number: 22665
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 10:01 pm: | |
I completely agree, Mayor. Marijuana has been demonized for too long as a gateway drug that leads to heroin, cocaine, or other barbituates. That is untrue but still widely believed by most Americans.
HEY AMERICA! MARIJUANA IS NOT A BARBITUATE!!!
I don't see things changing anytime soon, especially with the cigarette ban that will take effect in April. Except for casinos in Atlantic City. And that's fair? And you think NORML'll get anywhere?
I don't mean any offense, I'm just practical.
I'm here if you need me, MMC. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6575
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 10:30 pm: | |
ESL - that's so funny. Waaaay back in high school, senior year, I chose the topic "Should Marijuana Be Legalized" as a theme for an essay. Nowadays, I'd probably be expelled, DYFS called on my parents or sent to rehab just for thinking about the topic.
But, in 1978, I was allowed to write on this topic and I argued against it for exactly the reasons you cite: it would become a Big Business venture, over-regulated & unaffordable.
Although, I understand that the ounce I paid $35-$30 dollars for back in the day now goes for $500.
 |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:03 pm: | |
Greenie the ounce you paid $50 for back in the day was schwag. The stuff today is more expensive, but it's more potent. Which means you have to smoke less of it. Which is a good thing. Not that I'd ever touch the stuff. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 2879
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 18, 2006 - 11:44 pm: | |
Greenie:
Great minds think alike, or else we were both so addled by all that dope as teens that we have common brain fissures.
Even though I see corporations taking over the legalized trade, I do not see that as a bad thing--just ironic given that so many people see smoking pot as a small scale, almost anarchistic enterprise.
Think of where the pot comes from now, how it gets into the country, the type of people it supports along the distribution chain, even the small farmers and pickers who are paid dirt wages for it relative to its street value (but still better than other crops for them). Think of the vast oceans of corruption the money has spawned in Mexico, Columbia, etc. And who knows how much corruption is in our border patrol and customs service--I hope not much, but that much money.......
It is a vast criminal enterprise--there is no other way to characterize it. Buying street dope, unless you positively know it was grown in someone's basement, is supporting one of the most violent and destructive "industries" in the world.
I have never known a major supplier who also did not move cocaine, heroin, and other narcotics. Sure, Max Headroom down the street will sell you a finger bag, and he is a great guy, would never harm a fly, only sells a bit so he can keep some for his own head, a real altruist. And, besides, he always has good sh*t. But look one or two steps up the chain from him and you will not find very nice people--people he has no contact with or clue that they exist. He gets his stuff from a nice guy on the loading dock, but the loading dock guy gets his from Raoul who carries a Glock everywhere he goes. And Raoul is paying someone to allow him to operate in their turf, and you can bet that Glock is for more than mere machismo. That stuff Max has comes from somewhere, and lots of the time it ain't a very nice place. Legalizing it makes this a little more remote.
(Sidebar--I remember when a friend was busted with a car full of pot, coke, ludes, speed while driving to college in 1980. His father, a very well-connected lawyer, got the major distribution charges reduced--pre-Rockefeller laws, I believe--but had the very unpleasant task of paying back his son's dealer in person and in cash for the lost merchandise that my friend had been given on consignment. Suddenly the fun little world of college kids getting high came smashing into a wall of violent people who want money, regardless).
Legalizing pot will be the same as legalizing alcohol, with the same attendant problems. Some people will not be able to handle it, and for that we have AA and NA, unfortunately. Others will be able to come home, blow a bowl of Marlboro Gold (perhaps mixed with tobacco, think of that cross-marketing venue to resurrect Big Tobacco), and have no more effect than if they had a martini--except, if not filtered, their lungs are at risk.
The "revenooers" will be able to tax the sh*t out of it, creating another source of revenue to blow on hairbrained school construction schemes, enlarged border patrols and customs offices to stop "moonshine" pot imported from abroad, establish treatment centers for those who cannot handle the dope, and pay increased health care costs from the effects of marijuana smoke. Cities and states will rush to pass legislation banning pot smoke wherever cigarettes are banned, and life will more or less roll along as it always does, except today's big pot wholesalers will focus on higher quality and lower cost coke and heroin, which are far more destructive than pot could ever be, even in a Reefer Madness nightmare. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4370
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:11 am: | |
"and have no more effect than if they had a martini" - except that drinking and driving is bad. If you were to smoke a bowl, you probably wouldn't even get off the couch to find the keys
Drinking is also equated with violence. Ever hear of a marital dispute (or domestic violence case) that involved pot smokers? |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10327
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 8:47 am: | |
Common names for pot including Accapulco Gold, Maui Wowwi, etc. have been copyrighted in the hopes pot will be made legal, not just decriminalized. Hum, wonder who holds those copyrights?  |
Joe
Citizen
Username: Gonets
Post Number: 1130
Registered: 2-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:17 am: | |
I still think a lot of people will choose to grow their own. I believe a single plant will produce more than enough for most potheads. I don't think that's an option for tobacco smokers.
It’s ridiculous that this stuff is illegal, yet tobacco, alcohol and myriad pharmaceuticals, designed to do much the same thing as pot but with a heftier price tag (and serious side effects) are legal. Let’s stop wasting government resources fighting this, and bring it under government regulation if only to tax it and not have to spend money fighting it. It’s crazy that the highest profile politician to speak up for legalization was a lame-duck Governor, Republican. What’s up with that? Is this really so controversial? |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6577
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 9:44 am: | |
ESL - I don't know how I feel about it now as a mass market product.
Without question, medical use should be allowed. I wanted to get my mom some for her cancer pain, but she doesn't want to smoke anything (finally gave up cigarettes) and, at the time, she coulnd't eat solids, so brownies were out.
I don't think that it's all that harmful, if used responsibly. We do so much education on alcohol, drinking & driving, etc. and none of that message comes thru with pot because the answer there is "Just Say No". Kids will experiment with all kinds of taboo things - sex, drugs, alcohol. Public programs about the dangers of smoking have brought teen smoking rates down. I think that teen pregnancies and STDs are also down. Maybe they are still doing it, but they are learning how to do it safely. And by treating all drugs equally, why not experiment with any old thing - pot, coke, Xtasy, Special K, whatever. Which one of those things doesn't have the potential to kill you the first time you use just a little bit?
So, maybe I do think that pot should be legalized now, for the reasons you cite, as well as taking control of teaching people responsible ways to smoke it. It should be controlled the same way as alcoohol. Although, FFOF has a point: you can have one drink and be OK to drive, but you can't really have any pot and drive. Another thing to educate about, I guess.
BTW, Joe - schwag or not, it kept me pretty stoned! |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4372
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 10:16 am: | |
I was sort of saying that, greenetree, but more to the point...people who are drinking (even one martini) seem to get in cars anyway (when they shouldn't) and a pot smoker is probably too "laid back" to even move off the couch! Basically, drinking leads to aggressive behavior, pot does not. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 804
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 11:27 am: | |
greenetree - Along the lines of "Just Say No," did you know that the man who created the DARE program for schools has publicly said that it doesn't work and should be done away with. He claims that instead of educating students on the dangers of drugs that all it does is teach them where to get them and how to use them when they have them.
ffof - A few years ago the English government had a study done to show the effects of mariuana on driving. The results were not what they expected. They actually found out that people who smoked pot before driving had a much decreased chance of getting into an accident. This was due to the fact that people tended to drive slower, keep a larger distance between cars, and take less chances while on the roads. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1376
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 2:45 pm: | |
forget about the drug issue. the growing of non-narcotic marijuana should be allowded. the uses for hemp and hemp oil are countless. many of our former leaders grew hemp.
http://www.ukcia.org/industrial/
http://www.recipenet.org/health/articles/101_uses_hemp.htm
http://www.hemptrade.ca/en/public/other-uses.ihtml
http://www.hempcar.org/
http://www.industrialhemp.net/ |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 6582
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, January 19, 2006 - 3:21 pm: | |
McCh - from long ago personal experience, I have to say that I vehemently disagree with smoking not impairing the ability to drive. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 806
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Friday, January 20, 2006 - 2:23 am: | |
greene, it was only one study; i'm sure there are others out there that disagree with this one. While I think marijuana should be legalized, I also believe that there would have to be a system, like the one seen with policing drunk drivers, in place to handle abuse while driving. |
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