| Author |
Message |
    
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1186
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:09 pm: |     |
I'm sorry Elaine, I feel that your question is sort of a red herring it has nothing whatsoever to do with me understanding Republicans. Just as MBJ's question about whether a Democratic president has ever lied. I have stated my opinion about why I am a Democrat and why I have a very hard time understanding Republicans. Now I am waiting for someone to explain to me some of the reasons to be a Republican. How Republicans can justify the actions of their parties. Let me hear from someone how this country is improving. I keep stating that the Republicans are driving our country into the gutters, let me hear instead a different perspective about how they are elevating us to new heights of grandeur. I've said my peace. It's now your turns. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1187
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:16 pm: | |
Elaine, I haven't really given the Corretta Scott King thing much thought. I'm sure someone could explain it better than I though. If I had to guess, she is receiving grand treatment because it is to continue to help our nation to heal with all of it's race issues. Maybe they are doing more for her than her husband to make up for the snub to Martin Luther to begin with. And while he was a Reverend he is most remembered for his contributions to our society, to helping the race relations, and helping to overturn the racism that was so prevalent in our society. He wasn't trying to force religion into our lives by legislation. He was trying help people realize that Blacks are equal to Whites. I'm sorry I just don't see how this is a religious issue -- her husband or Coretta. Heck Jimmy Carter was an outspoken religious leader, but he understood how to keep religion separate from legislation. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 714
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:17 pm: | |
Alleygater-
All due respect, but do you want me to begin giving you the Democratic laundry list of how they are also driving our country into the ground?
Do you have a week? |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1188
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:45 pm: | |
No, how about just telling me HOW I am wrong about the Republicans. And how they are doing things right. How about you begin there. |
MBJ
Citizen
Username: Mbj
Post Number: 124
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:49 pm: | |
My question had nothing to do with whether a "democratic president ever lied". We could spend a lot of time discussing whether LBJ's Gulf of Tonkin claim was a "lie". Instead, it was directed at your comment about Clinton being impeached over his tryst, which you clearly knew was a false statement but which you felt you needed to throw out to buttress your juvenile hatred of Repulicans. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 716
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 1:53 pm: | |
Alleygater-
Republicans make mistakes, no doubt, but please stop acting as if the Democrats are the saviors of the country...
You seem to have a very selective memory which forces me to avoid your childish games. |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3023
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 2:06 pm: | |
It is fascinating that Alley asks for Republicans to defend their positions, and all that comes back is how bad Democrats are. The question here is not how woeful the Dems are or would be if they were running the country. A well-reasond response from a supporter of the administration would be great to hear.
But, Alley, you also need to understand that it is perfectly reasonable to be a Republican and support the GOP in general without supporting each and every position the party's leaders take. Or even the majority of the positions.
Southerner is being reasonably honest when she or he says that this is more about one team winning than about specific policies. The teams are not all that different, anyhow (notice how many Dems lined up to support the war, pass the Patriot Act, not allow Kerry to filibuster). It is more about style and emphasis than substance, I fear. Sure, in some cases the style crosses over into substance and that is critical to many of our lives--gay marriage, school prayer, access to abortion--but overall on most issues such as the economy and foreign policy it is about hegemony and comfort zones and not so much about actual policy differences. |
cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5171
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 2:32 pm: | |
I'll give it a shot as to Republican positions (though I'm a conservative):
Tax cuts spur economic growth and increased revenues to the Treasury. Revenues are up, and unemployment is down to 4.7%.
Originalists/strict constructionists are vital to a successful Supreme Court which would then rightfully put the crafting of the law into the Legislature where it belongs. That way, citizens won't feel disenfranchised when they or their elected representatives are deprived of a vote on issues facing them.
On the education front (though I'm not a fan of the record spending increases) tying accountability to federal revenues that are received are beginning to demand improvement in public education. School choice will do the same thing.
Defense and foreign policy -- the best way to promote peace is to have the best military in the world and the will to use it when necessary. We are entering a new era with the Soviet threat gone where we don't have to support oppressive regimes to balance the Soviets supporting their oppressive regime.
Free trade -- will deploy resources and labor to their best ends and is one of the means of increasing the overall standard of living in the US and the world. (Bush's steel tariffs were not a part of this and were something I very much objected to).
I support Social Security reform as presented by Republicans. While it didn't pass -- I didn't expect it to as the issue is just too huge to get it in one stroke. As more and more Americans enter the investor class, the possibilities of a successful reform will increase. Like many things, Americans only respond to disasters when they happen and not before. Social Security is a disaster that will relatively soon be happening. To continue this entitlement and Medicare as they are currently structured with the necessary tax increases that would be needed would ruin the economy. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12483
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 2:34 pm: | |
SLK said: Republicans make mistakes, no doubt, but please stop acting as if the Democrats are the saviors of the country...
That's an inference you made. AlleyGater didn't imply that at all. If this is your defense of Republicans, it's worse than weak.
He has invited you to bring the good news.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12484
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 2:38 pm: | |
cjc, that's good stuff, really. We agree on many of the goals but not the means towards them. If we brought stuff out into the clear more often, discussions would be more fruitful.
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cjc
Citizen
Username: Cjc
Post Number: 5174
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 2:50 pm: | |
Thanks. And yes -- it's the means of getting 'there' that divides us. |
Grrrrrrrrrrr
Citizen
Username: Oldsctls67
Post Number: 268
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 3:28 pm: | |
Tom, I don't take SLK's argument as a defense of Republicans. Admittedly there is quite a bit these days that falls under the indefensible catagory. To me it's directed more towards AG on a personal level. He/she/whatever (referred to as "her" for argument's sake) has been as spiteful and vitriolic as one could imagine in her characterization of anything Republican or conservative. To me her refusal to acknowledge any previous improprieties by any Democrats or liberals is a tacit admission on her part that the left has acted in just a sleazy fashion as the right has over the years. The fact that she continues to spew righteous indignation marks her as a hypocrite of the worst order and renders this entire discussion moot. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 718
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 5:27 pm: | |
Everyone-
Maybe I should avoid posting at work because I never have time to make long posts or put much thought into them. It sort of off the cuff, you know.
Thank Kafka Grrrrrr and cjc can take the time to make more intelligible posts than mine....
My apologies...
-SLK |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12491
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 5:39 pm: | |
We're not in a hurry to get your answers. Answer whenever you like. There's not even a need to say "I'll answer fully later" though you can do that if you want.
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AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1189
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 5:43 pm: | |
ESL: The Democrats who lined up to support the war and the Patriot act are panty wastes in my opinion. Having said that I can ALMOST forgive them for both since the current administration made every effort to make a case for Iraq's involvement in the war. It wasn't until later that Bush admitted that the intelligence was outright false. Why the Patriot act was extended most recently...? Well that irritates the heck out of me. Do I blame the Democrats for that? Yes. But I also blame the Republicans too. I told you, I'm a bit left of Democrat. I see and am constantly frustrated by how the Democrats waffle on issues to try to sway a few Republican voters. I don't want middle of the road politicians. I want people who are smart working on problems, solving our countries problems.
I guess my last point to you is this. For someone as passionate/irrational (take your pick) as me, all it takes is one hot point trigger topic like equal rights, constitutional rights, abortion things that really matter to me in order for me to reject WHOLESALE an entire party. If the Democrats were anti-abortion, I wouldn't be able to vote for them. If the Democrats wanted to teach wackery science to my children about how God is science, I wouldn't be able to vote Democrat. Sure some of the little details can be ignored, but some are just too big. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1190
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 5:45 pm: | |
CJC, thank you. I must admit there is a lot of meat in your post, and I am not familiar with some of what you wrote about. But I sincerely appreciate that you put time and energy into what you posted. I will try to read it more thoroughly later and give it the attention it truly deserves. |
Grrrrrrrrrrr
Citizen
Username: Oldsctls67
Post Number: 270
Registered: 11-2002
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 6:23 pm: | |
Gregor Samsa awoke one morning to find that he was an Alleygator... |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1191
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 6:30 pm: | |
It could be worse, Kafka could have written that I had awoken to find myself transformed into Straw. |
I "Straw"buried Paul
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6779
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 7:18 pm: | |
  |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8620
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 7:21 pm: | |
uh oh. ban material. (39 minutes left to edit) |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8624
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Monday, February 13, 2006 - 8:28 pm: | |
we're all good.
and Kafka rules.
|
Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 12:48 pm: | |
The other thing that the original framers included was "Majority Rule". And while you don't like the current direction the country is heading, you'll get another chance to voice your opinion (and hopefully convince others that your opinion is right) in a few years. If you don't like to wait, then you need to let your senators and congressmen (forgive me for being un-pc here) know they're not doing a better job representing your views. I just moved to NJ, but both my previous democtratic senators voted to support the war in Iraq. I can only assume they were given the same information that the president was, and they came to the same conclusions - that Iraq was developing weapons of mass distruction and that the war was justified. So I blame them as well for not doing their job in checking the information presented as justification for a war.
I support the president because he IS the president. I supported Clinton, even though I didn't like all he did either. It's certainly not a job I would want. But I respect those that take it on. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12513
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 12:53 pm: | |
Many of us do appreciate our right to vote. However, the right to complain or to ask our government to do better doesn't go away between elections. In fact, it's more than a right, it's a duty.
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Elizabeth
Citizen
Username: Momof4peepers
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 14, 2006 - 7:38 pm: | |
ITA, but isn't the problem that our elected representatives (forgive me - I'm new - but aren't the elected representatives all democrats here too?) AREN'T doing their job? I can speak about Kennedy and Kerry and Dick Durbin and their lack of leadership (or hypocritical positions) on issues I hold dear, but despite their positions, they continue to be less than effective. And unlike the president, they have no term limits. |
AlleyGater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 1192
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 15, 2006 - 11:11 pm: | |
Can someone fill me in and tell me what Straw said that was ban worthy? Inquiring minds want to know. |
Paris Hiltonberry
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6797
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 17, 2006 - 9:52 am: | |
Something about you.. |
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