| Author |
Message |
    
breal
Citizen
Username: Breal
Post Number: 707
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 11:25 am: |     |
Children need childhoods. They need magic. They need sprinkles on their cupcakes. They need the break down train to come along and set Thomas back on the track before the end of the episode. They need routine. They need pleasure. They need not to be slimed by adults who feel icky. |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2814
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 11:30 am: | |
If we just don't feed the troll, maybe it will go away!
Scrotis, this means you too!  |
Guy
Supporter
Username: Vandalay
Post Number: 1470
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 11:34 am: | |
Looks like the Grinch is a regular at Libertarian conventions. Don't forget SANTA is an anagram for SATAN.
  |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1223
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 12:05 pm: | |
Breal- Cupcakes are banned from our schools, only healthy snacks! |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 278
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 7:35 pm: | |
My wife threw me a surprise party for my 30th birthday, and it was the greatest, most joyful moment in my life (pre-first child) because so many people went through so much effort and flat out LIED to me about what was really going on, to pull off the gag. It meant a lot.
Many view the surprise party as also being a silly tradition, that involves deciept and manipulation. If somebody had clued me into the surprise in advance (because there are PLENTY of people who justify ruining somebodies surprise for your own good,) I wouldn't have that memory or the moment.
Same drill with the kids...it's fun to do it while they are little, and the moment the parents bring the oldest kids in on the secret, is a special time for the kid, and a special way to mark stages in their lives.
Just like surprise parties, plenty of people enjoy ruining other peoples fun. This is selfishly imposing their views on what we should regard as fun, moral, or worthy. Basic Jerks. |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 86
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 9:03 pm: | |
Is there a difference between "lies" and "pretending"? My son was a libertarian approved truth teller until recently. At the age of two, he has begun saying, "I'm a dog." He crawls aroung and barks. It's a developmental milestone that I celebrate.
Should I tell him so stop lying? Because, he's not a dog.
Also, I've never actually, "gotten his nose."
J.B. |
aquaman
Supporter
Username: Aquaman
Post Number: 688
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 9:33 pm: | |
It's fine to be a dog, it's fine to beleive in Santa.
It's not fine is to perpetuate the charade once the kids start asking intelligent questions.
Example:
Q: Is Santa real?
A: What do you think?
Continue from there and reply truthfully.
Your kids are going to trust you 100% for only so many years.
if you treat them with dignity and acknowledge their distrust about the Santa story and talk about it it will pay off over the years.
Perpetuating the white lie that is Santa is laying the groundwork for all the lies that parents tell. |
Jersey Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 88
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, January 30, 2006 - 9:48 pm: | |
Adults lie to children, but they're not all in the same category.
When dad cheated on mom = Santa and the Tooth Fairy?
Grandpa's not an alcoholic = The Easter Bunny?
I don't buy it.
J.B. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 281
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:40 am: | |
RIGHT ON aquaman! I've read that the #1 cause of violent crime in America is the underlying factors beginning with the breakdown of the Parent/Child relationship over the great Santa Lie. Supposedely, it is why Gun violence is so much higher in the States vs. Canada (evidently, in Canada, the Educators have a great reveal, as early as the 1rst grade....local towns decide on the exact date).
We continue to get this all wrong in this country. Hopefully, George Bush will address this horrible wrong in the State of the Union, and we can implement a federal age limit on believing in Santa, within the "No Child Left Behind" act. The final question on the 3rd grade exam would read: "Is Santa Clause for Real?" |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 7:54 am: | |
Bravo Smarty!
Lord knows I've never forgiven my parents for "the big Santa lie!" I almost murdered them in their sleep not long after I found out. And I've spent my entire adult life in therapy, wrestling with "trust issues" as a result.
At birth, I informed each of my children that, in fact there was no Santa Claus, a lesson I have reinforce on a daily basis since then. I expect they'll thank me for robbing them of this little childhood joy when they're all grown up! |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 571
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 8:01 am: | |
OMG-
Can Aquaman or Lib get more ridiculous about about this topic?
I am wondering if they are still mad at their own parents for telling such an "outrageous lie" like Santa...
Good posts JB and Smarty Jones...
-SLK
Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... |
Jhcmom
Citizen
Username: Jhcmom
Post Number: 34
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:52 am: | |
My oldest (8) still believes in Santa. We thought that last year was it, but no, he is still a 100% believer. He even commented that some colored scrapes in the battery portion of one of his gifts must have been made by one of the elfs putting the batteries in. I have no problem with an 8 year old believing & using his imagination and I hope that this innocence lasts for a bit longer, although I am not naive to the reality that someone will tell him eventually. It should not, however, be another non family member adult, especially a teacher. It is a kid's right to have these pleasures and it is not up to a teacher to take that from him/her.
I agree with Brett Weir:
"If religion has no place in schools, then the teachers should leave it alone. It is not their job to expound upon God or Santa or even non-sectarian images like the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy or St. Valentine. Those issues should be referred back to parents/guardians." |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12221
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:06 am: | |
jhcmom, I agree, but msg already explained her reason. The kids backed her into a corner. I think that's fair enough. If learning the truth out is traumatic, it is from whoever tells it. And I don't think it is traumatic.
"This is the only thing my signature says." |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 282
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:39 am: | |
Tom, think about what you just said...a gang of 10 year old kids backed an Adult teacher into the corner? Yer kidding, right?
After that incident, word has it they trampled over the teacher, and began stampeding up and down Springfield Ave. Several reports came to the Police Dept. of a gang of Elves ransacking the Hobby Store on Springfield Ave.
Kids these days....just aren't like what they used to be (or could it be that the Teachers/Adults that just aren't the same anymore?)
|
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 588
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 11:57 am: | |
yup, they put a gun to her head too...
Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... |
MBJ
Citizen
Username: Mbj
Post Number: 109
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:03 pm: | |
I think they also grabbed a car and drove over Maplewoody's carpet. |
happyman
Citizen
Username: Happyman
Post Number: 406
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:05 pm: | |
Hey-
Anyone else notice how much Tom Reingold is starting to look like . . . SANTA!!!!! I think he trying to hide his identity with that last crazy post!!!
PS: There is a more sane discussion in the education section. |
Scrotis Lo Knows
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 592
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 12:58 pm: | |
MBJ-
Don't you steal my limelight, kid...that was me dammit me!!!!! 
Start a Revolution or shut the hell up... |
Jhcmom
Citizen
Username: Jhcmom
Post Number: 35
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:34 pm: | |
Tom, from an adult point of view, you're right, learning the truth about Santa is not traumatic. But it is for a kid who has believed in something his whole life.
I also don't go for the "backed into a corner" thing. Adults are able to dance around many issues when confronted by kids. A simple "this is something to be discussed with your parents", or "moving on the the next topic" would have been better. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1455
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:45 pm: | |
tom reingold- "and I don't think it is traumatic"
spiderman ( the creator of the thread)- "My daughter was painfully quiet all evening and then broke down crying asking why the teacher said this."
but hey, its all in good fun. lying to your children is fun!
Complaining isnt activism.
stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! |
MBJ
Citizen
Username: Mbj
Post Number: 110
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:47 pm: | |
Why are you posting about parents dealing with their kids, when it's so painfully obvious that you're clueless about it? |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1456
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 2:49 pm: | |
and you are an expert? your post proves that you can be ignorant on a subject yet have an opinion.
Complaining isnt activism.
stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! |
GOP Man
Citizen
Username: Headsup
Post Number: 268
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:12 pm: | |
Libertarian is right. I never tell my kids any fairy tales like Santa or the Tooth Fairy. I think it's more important for kids to learn to believe in important stuff like the invisible hand of the free market and supply side economics. |
Smarty Jones
Citizen
Username: Birdstone
Post Number: 289
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 3:25 pm: | |
aaaahhhhhhh and I'm sure you will be VERY direct with them should they ever ask you if you engaged in pre-marital sex, drank underage, or inhaled. Why perpetuate the fantasy that we parents followed every law strictly and behaved like Angels?
I've seen the parents who tried the "Openbook, kids are mature enough to handle this stuff" relationship.....lets just say they are all grandparents at an age much younger than they expected.
Have fun with THOSE teen years. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1225
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:10 pm: | |
Parents should always be truthful with their children, but incrementally. The truths we may impart when they are 30 are not the same as those we provide when they are 10. Young children need truth, but they have a greater need to hold images that make them feel secure in their own lives. Telling a young child about your sex/booze/drugs adventures as a college student will confuse them and possibly send a wrong message, but speaking candidly with them as they prepare for college can be reassuring and supportive. I've always told myself that each of my children will be told everything about my life by age 30, if they still care to ask.
This whole discussion about what to tell any child about religion, childhood figures, fairy tales and flights of whimsy is rooted in the right and judgment of the child's parents to balance knowledge with security, truth with fantasy, reality with possibilities.
All parents know how quickly innocence and imagination will end in their childrens' lives, and none of us want them to go forth unprepared for the realities of life. But we are the judges who decide what truth is needed and when- at least until our kids are ready to seek and accept truth on their own terms. Until then, our main concern is that they can go to sleep each night and rest assured that the world holds them as dearly and as safely as we do. And no one can presume to usurp our role without expecting to be challenged. |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2836
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:18 pm: | |
Beautifully said, Brett! |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1474
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:36 pm: | |
gotta give it to you brett. that was nice.
Complaining isnt activism.
stop bitching on the internet and do something about it! |
Meandtheboys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 2842
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 5:55 pm: | |
And this from someone who sees no benefit to having children at all!
Boy, Brett, that's gotta be some compliment. |
Jhcmom
Citizen
Username: Jhcmom
Post Number: 36
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 31, 2006 - 9:29 pm: | |
Beautifully said, Brett. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1864
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:38 pm: | |
Beautifully said but totally unrealistic. At the appropriate age, parents have a responsibility to tell their children that Santa, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy are the creations of parents and older children to amuse and entertain young children.
Just as older children learn to keep the ending of a book or movie secret so as not to spoil the experience for others, so they learn to act considerately towards younger children about Santa. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4006
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 1, 2006 - 11:46 pm: | |
Ummm, I don't think Brett was going to wait until his kids are thirty to tell them the adult view of Santa, et al. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1226
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 9:43 am: | |
Montangard- Santa, et al, are hardly the truths a parent worries about telling their children- trust me, they find out right on time and usually perpetuate the belief anyway just to placate us (and to stave off a sudden drop in their gifts due to economic sanctions that kick in once the cat is out of the bag).
The difference is that children "find out" incrementally as well. They have their own little 12-step program (denial/grief/acceptance, etc.)by which they ease into giving up childhood beliefs progressively. I don't know a single parent who "told" their child any of these truths; conversely, the kids usually pick a time to tip us off. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1227
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 2, 2006 - 9:47 am: | |
Me & JhcMom- thanks for your kind words.
Libertarian- I am honored... |
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