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Thenewguy
Citizen
Username: Thenewguy
Post Number: 101
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 3:26 pm: | 
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While I generally don't have a problem with outsourcing, it's very frustrating to speak with a customer service rep in India who has trouble understanding me, and then had to CALL THE U.S. when he could not answer my question....and United cancelled my f******* flight. |
Fruitcake
Citizen
Username: Fruitcake
Post Number: 264
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 10:30 pm: |
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Life is hard and then you die. |
LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3041
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 10:39 pm: |
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Well then, maybe you SHOULD have a problem with outsourcing. It will eventually destroy our workforce and our economy. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 501
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 10:43 pm: |
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Who cares about outsourcing in India....what about some decent Indian food in the SOM area!?!!?!?!? |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3167
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, February 23, 2006 - 11:27 pm: |
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I have a problem with American companies sending jobs (and the associated income) overseas and still getting US tax breaks even though those workers don't pay taxes to the US.
I don't think that the government should interfere with how they run their business, but they also shouldn't reward them for taking jobs away from American workers and also the associated income out of the tax base.
I won't even get into the relative quality of work that results from these arrangements, but suffice it to say that "you get what you pay for" and they aren't paying nearly as much for the overseas workers as for US workers. Perhaps it is an even trade-off or even a slight improvement on the bottom-line, but that comes at the expense of quality of customer service and increased stress for the remaining workers back home who now must depend on these colleagues. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10787
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 4:24 am: |
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When the outsourcing customer service to India began, forgetting any political opinions, it worked fairly well. The CSRs spoke excellent English, were well trained and usually knew the product they were helping with. However, as more corporations jumped on the bandwagon things deteriorated and hiring standards decreased. The definition of "fluent" changed and because of competition the CSRs weren't as well trained and educated.
A few months ago we had a problem with Citibank and I ended up almost screaming at the India based CSR. I couldn't understand him, he couldn't understand me and he had absolutely no clue about the service he was supposed to be providing. |
e roberts
Citizen
Username: Wnwd00
Post Number: 370
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 8:01 am: |
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sac,
you have to remember that these customer service jobs are not high income, and have very little advancement/promotional oppurtunities associated with them. the outsourcing of customer service phone support now is what outsourcing textile and manufacturing jobs to china 10, 20, even 30 years ago was. customer service is the one field i actually feel should be outsourced as it will not significantly damage the economy, we are not losing high paying jobs, we are losing above minimim wage jobs that may or may not have benefits. that said i believe companies should ensure that all their reps know hte product and can speak english.
the type of outsourcing that is damaging is engineering, software design and other technical jobs that are high paying. not only does it contribute to the "brain drain" of the american economy, it also pure and simple costs the american economy high paying careers. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4096
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 8:21 am: |
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Darn straight. I would rather have Americans be unemployed than saddle them with "not high income, and have very little advancement/promotional oppurtunities associated with them" jobs. Is that compassionate conservatism or what? |
Judi W.
Citizen
Username: Judiwein
Post Number: 16
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 9:44 am: |
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There are lots of Americans who would be happy to work in customer service. Not everyone has the capacity/skills to work in high pay tech jobs and happy to find that CSR job. Outsourcing has hurt lots of these folks find steady work.
What irks me to no end is speaking to a heavy accented CSR from India who says her name is Valerie Jones. Get real! |
gj1
Citizen
Username: Gj1
Post Number: 310
Registered: 11-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:06 am: |
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I'm on a long conference call with our "India Team" right now. Of course the calls are always early in the morning or late at night.
The irony of our current situation is that our developers that are having their positions eliminated here due to outsourcing are all from India. |
sac
Supporter
Username: Sac
Post Number: 3170
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 10:07 am: |
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e roberts - I was actually referring mainly to the engineering, etc. jobs you mentioned at the end of your post and "internal" customer service relationships within a large corporation. However, I think that the concerns span the entire spectrum, at least to some degree. I have also been very frustrated as a consumer in trying to deal with people who are difficult to communicate with both due to language barriers and general lack of understanding of how I'm trying to use their (often technology related) product or service. |
e roberts
Citizen
Username: Wnwd00
Post Number: 371
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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sac,
i understand, i misinterpreted your initial post, and i agree to a certain extent losing any job does hurt the economy, however i do still stand by the main idea in my post that the main concern in regards to outsourcing is the loss of well paid technical positions, as opposed the the loss of relatively low paid customer service positions. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1253
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
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It's difficult to say but outsourcing Customer Service to a foreign country (particularly a non-English speaking one) is an unsatisfactory practice. It is a slap in the faces of customers that a company chooses to cut costs in the area designed to assist them.
I had to drop a course in college because the professor had an Indian accent so thick I couldn't understand his lectures. Several other students did likewise, and those who remained said the teacher was a very hard marker to boot. My leaving was no reflection on the professor's acumen- he seemed brillaint- but I honestly could not comprehend him when he lectured, and it wasn't worth failing over.
The essence of customer service is to be able to interact with people and resolve issues correctly and expeditiously. If a language barrier exists, the process becomes more prolonged, frustrating and fruitless. |
Zoesky1
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 1390
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 1:05 pm: |
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Anyone interested in this discussion should read "The World is Flat," by Thomas Friedman (columnist for the NY Times). It's utterly fascinating. Basiaclly, it's about globalization and how this will all shake out. Anyway, he has tons of stuff about outsourcing to India. It's not necessarily a bad thing. Worth reading. Out in hardcover right now. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1585
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 5:25 pm: |
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Whether one likes the idea of outsourcing or not, it is a fact of business life. Up to a few years ago, companies in the US outsourced fairly routine functions: accounting, help desks, customer service.
Companies like GE have recently been outsourcing more "core competencies" like financial analysis, reading and interpretation of medical records and protocols, and the like. That is where outsourcing becomes scary for the US, Canada, and Europe, as we have said for years, if you have a good education and a "knowledge worker" job, you're competitive in the marketplace.
That is becoming a thing of the past.
India, et al., will be a competitive marketplace for "knowledge workers" until Indian salaries and costs of doing business begin to make it less attractive to send work and build facilities there. It'll take a while. (It took about 12-14 years for that to happen to US and Canadian back offices in Ireland and Scotland).
The issue is for US business, investors, entrepreneurs, parents, and students to push for innovation in our industries again, and not just the lip service given to "innovation" in recent political speeches.
We need a lot more companies to be innovative enough to grow their businesses to more than $1 billion in revenue per year.
We need investors to reduce their demands for quarterly performance and profits so companies get a chance to build for the longer term.
That gives us a chance to create attractive jobs for our young people. Those young people need to understand that they will be expected to "re-invent" themselves and their skills on a regular, not to say frequent, basis in their working lives. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12632
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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People and organizations will always follow incentives. This is neither good nor bad. Or it's both. But you can bet on it. Rather than making laws to force people to do or not to do stuff, make the incentives to do the "good" stuff and disincentives not to do the "bad" stuff.
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Mustt_mustt
Citizen
Username: Mustt_mustt
Post Number: 556
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Friday, February 24, 2006 - 8:53 pm: |
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Brett - do you follow Apu Nahasaseemapetilon (a nonexistent last name in India) on The Simpsons?
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Arnomation
Citizen
Username: Arnomation
Post Number: 506
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 3:07 am: |
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An Outsourcing Christmas
'Twas the night before Christmas; the elves lost their jobs.
Not a penny of severance for those little slobs.
Santa’s new workshop had moved overseas--
He’ll build toys himself…sans the elf expertise.
The old boy was nestled all snug in his bed,
While visions of revenue danced in his head;
With Mama in kerchief, they planned and conspired--
To tell 50 elves that they’d all just been fired.
He outsourced his business to India’s drones--
while poor elfin families default on their loans.
Santa “went corporate”—hand over fist.
”As long as I profit, those elves won’t be missed!”
And then came the strumming; a single sitar.
My ears couldn’t tell; was it near or afar?
When, what to my watering eyes should appear--
but a cheaply made sleigh, and eight turbaned reindeer!
"Now, Ravi! Now, Deepak! Now, Punjab and Dharma!
On, Krishna! On Khorma! On Bagwat and Shwarma!
To the top of the porch! To the top of the wall!
Now dash away! Dash away! Dash away all!"
When Santa arrived on that cold Christmas Eve
some protestors told him to pack up and leave.
"The kids want good toys that are made here at home--
by American elves; not some Indian gnome!"
So all the good girls and a few naughty boys
proceeded to burn all their foreign-made toys.
The Elf toys were hot and they flew off the shelf--
Mr. Claus just ignored them, in spite of himself.
Santa said nothing, continued his work.
Then he took his toys back, and he turned with a jerk,
He positioned his thumb on the end of his nose,
And with little fanfare, up the chimney he rose
From this sad day forward, Saint Nicholas was through.
The elves all rejoiced and drank domestic brew.
And as smashed as they were, they all managed to say:
“Merry Christmas to all in the U.S. of A!”
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Crazy_quilter
Citizen
Username: Crazy_quilter
Post Number: 203
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 9:09 am: |
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i tell me dtr to do her homework -- there are two children in India who want her job! |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2620
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 12:02 pm: |
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Arnomation:
Doesn't Santa work at the North Pole? That's not the USA! I think Santa's operation is one of the oldest examples of outsourcing.
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Cynicalgirl
Citizen
Username: Cynicalgirl
Post Number: 2383
Registered: 9-2003
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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Teensy quibble: I think it's off-shoring you don't care for if it mean jobs going outside the US. Lots of business functions get outsourced within the US, but sometimes we don't like that, either. E.g., where I work the IT Helpdesk is outsourced to a group in Texas. They're pretty good, and way more polite than our in-company support (who do turn up for really urgent or sr exect things). And then there's near-shoring, which is what my beloved IT brethren resort to when the off-shoring doesn't work but metro NY is too pricey. |
Innisowen
Citizen
Username: Innisowen
Post Number: 1596
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, February 25, 2006 - 4:35 pm: |
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Cynicalgirl is correct in a way. There are many variations of sourcing:
I can outsource (functions to another company, regardless of where it is located). I can offshore (functions) to an entity off shore, and it could be a subsidiary of my own company where I might get things done with cheaper labor costs.
I can outsource off-shore (taking the functions out of my shop entirely and putting them abroad)
I can near-shore and remote-shore in my off-shoring (near-shore would for example be placing functions at cheaper cost in Nova Scotia or New Brunswick, Canada, or remote-shore (sending those functions to India, Thailand, the Falkland Islands, Queen Maud's Land).
Then of course I may also decide to in-source once again.
Then again I can do strategic sourcing, which is a horse of a different colour, having to do more with procurement and purchasing than with deciding where to place functions geographically.
Beyond that we get into realms of consultant-speak that I vowed never to utter in public. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1280
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 28, 2006 - 11:38 am: |
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Mustt- Of course I do, but he's really Hank Azaria. If my former professor hd been Hank Azaria I could have asked him to switch to Moe the Bartender, deliver our lecture and get us a round of Alabama Slammers- now that's an educational experience!
Sadly, Hank Azaria doesn't teach at any college I know of. But I did switch to a fabulous professor who gave captivating lectures and was completely discernable. I'm an auditory learner, so my ability to hear and understand clearly were paramount to my success in school.
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