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Message |
    
Pippi
Supporter
Username: Pippi
Post Number: 1863
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 3:53 pm: | 
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http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html
this bugs me
anyone else bothered, or is it me?
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12707
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
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I am, too. Sounds like a violation of the first amendment.
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blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 493
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:03 pm: |
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I have told people of the evils of Dominoes pizza -besides tasting horrible-for years.
Yes, it bothers me also...but I do hope they have a lot of day care facilities. |
Deidra
Citizen
Username: Deidralynn
Post Number: 501
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:07 pm: |
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Wow, that's pretty scary.
I knew there was a reason I never liked Domino's Pizza.. |
dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 745
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:14 pm: |
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If this guy wants to build some retail buildings and put in the leases that the stores can sell this or that, what is wrong with that? I don't really understand how they will restrict cable. Will people be free to get satilite? It seems to me he could lose control of the town pretty quickly once home sales start.
What is he doing that is evil? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12708
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:22 pm: |
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He aims to establish the rule of law based on a religion. That's called establishing a religion, which is explicitly forbidden in the first amendment.
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dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 746
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:36 pm: |
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What law is he proposing? I think the article is very poorly written and alarmist. The only fact I got out of it is he wants to write restrictive leases for commercial property he owns. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12711
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 4:46 pm: |
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Well, maybe he's not writing laws, but he will effectively be lawmaker by owning all the property and dictating behavior to the lessees.
Maybe this is a precedent for bypassing and establish law by owning an entire town. And that would lead to some sort of judicial test, I'm sure.
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ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1262
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 5:54 pm: |
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Pippi, that bothers me, too. That Monaghan character's right-wing anti-choice views helped my decision not to purchase Domino's pizza for the past 20 years (the fact that the pizza is disgusting has less to do with it, actually, and makes my decision convenient).
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slipknot (slippy)
Citizen
Username: Zotts
Post Number: 272
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 6:54 pm: |
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Would you feel better if they have an eruv? |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 363
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 7:46 pm: |
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Although I certainly wouldn't choose to live there - I don't have much of a problem with a bunch of like minded people establishing their own community as long as they are not violating any existing laws. The Amish do this, so do the Hasidim in certain NY towns and there's an entire city populated solely bunch of renegade fundamentalist mormons with 20 wives each in AZ.
I find it much more difficult to stomach a group of religious fundamentalists who are a minority in an existing town who try to take over all the elected offices so as to further their own religious agenda. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 502
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 8:07 pm: |
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I heard Domino's sprinkles holy water on all their pizzas. |
doulamomma
Citizen
Username: Doulamomma
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 8:18 pm: |
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"Monaghan envisions 11,000 homes and 20,000 residents."
Better plan for more than 1.8 people per home given the lack of birth control... |
snowmom
Citizen
Username: Snowmom
Post Number: 354
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 9:03 pm: |
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Slippy - LOL!!! |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1627
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 9:22 pm: |
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he sold dominoes in 98. his plan will be beaten to death by the ACLU. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 1628
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 9:23 pm: |
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disney tried this on a less restricted basis and it failed to hold together. his more strict plan is doomed to failure. |
LibraryLady(ncjanow)
Supporter
Username: Librarylady
Post Number: 3065
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 2, 2006 - 10:41 pm: |
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I think Disneyworld would be a bigger draw than the country's largest cruifix.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celebration,_Florida |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10853
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 4:57 am: |
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I don't think Celebration is religious based in anyway, shape or form. If you like the concept of planned communities it has some attraction. I also think Disney has been granted some governmental powers by the local government board.
I am not a fan of Monaghan and especially his Thomas More Law Center. However, as long as Ava Marie is essentially a large sub-division as opposed to a government. there is probably nothing illegal.
The fun part will be if they want to incorporate as a town, form a school district, or insist on restrictive covenants in the deeds to residential property.
While more organized and starting from scratch this isn't much different than some Amish, Mennonite and Orthodox Jewish communities around the northeast.
Personally, I don't want to live in Celebration or in Ava Maria. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3545
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 9:48 am: |
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If this nutjob Monaghan wants to build it, fine. But will they come? And how come Hugh Hefner never though of this???
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Catholic-Town.html
Of course, what I really wanna know is, will Michael and Marie be moving there?
Really sounds like their kinda place...
-s. |
sportsnut
Citizen
Username: Sportsnut
Post Number: 2321
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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I don't understand why the ACLU would stick their nose in this one. Wouldn't people move there on their own, knowing fully well what they are getting themselves into?
Its been done before but without the national exposure:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiryas_Joel,_New_York
Or maybe there was national exposure I just don't remember.
I personally don't have a problem with this. Heck, its his money as long as he doesn't try to force people like me to buy into his beliefs I could care less if people like him want to form a town and live by the same rules. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10858
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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....and the Shakers made very nice furniture.  |
Joe R.
Citizen
Username: Ragnatela
Post Number: 296
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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Anyone who would buy pizza from a guy named Monaghan deserves to be penned up in a place like that. All kidding aside, I think his lawyers told him this could not be done in the context of the constitution as we now know it. His position on GMA this morning was considerably more reasonable. In a couple of years....who knows with this Court. But, I really don't think there is any reason to get excited about it. It (the town) isn't going to happen. The University might. No one can seriously have a problem with the establishment of a religious institution of higher learning. As a matter of fact, the foundtion of a communty based on religious precepts is not a new idea. The City of Newark was founded as a theocracy by a group of Puritans fleeing persecution in the New Haven (Conn.) colony. |
Michael
Citizen
Username: Michael
Post Number: 826
Registered: 1-2002
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 12:34 pm: |
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Why Soda (whom I don't know) is interested in where I might reside in the future escapes me.
Yeah, I was going to move to Catholic Town until I realized, "Hey, I'm not Catholic ! "
So, we decided to move to Springfield Ave. instead.
pathetic |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 63
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 2:03 pm: |
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I am not sure about the law but it sounds like discrimination to me. I mean I was born and raised a catholic but I want nothing to do with it now (just my choice,no conversions needed). It states in one of the articles that anybody who would like to purchase a residence will have to be approved to see if they fit the picture. So if you are what they consider to be the perfect person then you can move in??...WOW reminds me of somebody from the past...
I am not worried about the people that move there. I am worried about the kids that grow up there and end up joining the real world. What about learning to tolerate, respect, and accept other beliefs. What about enjoying diversity and growing with different experiences.
What I also find strange is that every time I have gone to a Dominoes it is usually run by Middle Eastern People (Arab, Indian etc). The South Orange one is run by a Kurdish family. So I guess other denominations can work for him but can't live next door to the guy...
Should I ever win the lottery I would like to announce right now that I will build a town called " Get your A*s over here right now". You are required to own at least one pet that you choose to walk off leash. And I will build the largest firehydrant in the nation and THEY WILL COME (and go LOL)
Ave whatever
Bajou
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10860
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 2:27 pm: |
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I have to say Michael got Soda on a TKO this time.
I have less problems with Dominos as a business than I do with Monaghan's religious approach towards things.
I believe, at least in the beginning the franchises were pretty inexpensive and a lot of people like the Kurdish family Bajou mentions were able to buy a stake in the USofA.
I haven't had a Dominos pizza in probably 20 years. The last time we ordered, Mrs. K swears to delivery guy had on a cashmere sweater! That sort of thing sticks in your memory.
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dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 747
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 2:38 pm: |
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Bajou you do realize that there are Indian Catholics? Here is Most Reverend Archbishop Ignatius Paul Pinto of Bangalore.
Does he not look like a Catholic to you? Do you have a sterotype image of a Catholic in your head?
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 65
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 2:48 pm: |
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Mr. K,
why would Mrs. K mind if a delivery guy has a kashmere sweater on? For all you know the guy might have three jobs and can afford it or maybe is was a hand-me-down?
I mean the pizza sucks so I understand why it wouldn't be the first choice but when my teenagers have a sleepover and want Pizza at 11:45PM (they can eat anything at anytime and still stay skinny..it's just not fair) Dominoes is the only one that delivers.
Bajou |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 66
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 3:14 pm: |
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Dear Dougw:
Yes I do know that there are Indian Catholics and priests and bishops but I doubt that every foreign owner/worker of a Dominoes shop bought it because he/she is from another country and catholic. I am a foreigner myself and don't fit any stereotype. Did in no way mean to come across as stereotyping anybody.
Bajou |
dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 748
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 3:27 pm: |
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Thanks Bajou. Maybe I over reacted. But a lot of people here on MOL equate Catholics with born again Christian funamentalists. I think the Catholic church is a lot more complicated and diverse than many people on MOL know.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10862
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 3:32 pm: |
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Bajou, I think you overreacted. My comment was purely ancedotal and not judgemental. |
dougw
Citizen
Username: Dougw
Post Number: 750
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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Bobk - I did not understand your sweater comment either. I thought you were saying that you were unhappy that he was making a lot of money selling you lousy pizza. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10863
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 3:44 pm: |
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Oh well, win some, lose some they always say. |
Ace789nj
Citizen
Username: Ace789nj
Post Number: 291
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 4:58 pm: |
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wonder if they'll be a dominoes in Ave Maria 
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Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 5:23 pm: |
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Yeah there will be but they'll change the name to "Anno Dominoes"
And you don't have to tip you just bless the delivery guy.
Amen |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 70
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 5:25 pm: |
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Dear BobK:
didn't mean to sound harsh..sorry  |
Heather Marvell
Citizen
Username: Saltbagel
Post Number: 14
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Friday, March 3, 2006 - 9:17 pm: |
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The guy just wants to build a place where practicing Catholics won't constantly be confronted with things they consider sinful. Nobody has to live there, so what is the big deal??? |
Da Lat
Citizen
Username: Sidrn
Post Number: 174
Registered: 6-2005
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 12:52 am: |
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Pippi and Tom,
Why does this bug you? The last time I checked, the good ol' U.S. of A is a free country. If a guy wants to put down $250 million to create his own community, it's his right. Noone asked you to move there. In fact, if you don't agree with his beliefs, you can excercise your freedom to stay away.
For all your pretense at open-mindedness, you are only tolerant of things that you deem not offensive.
Let me ask you this, if he is spending his own money, why shouldn't he be able to build what he wants?
BTW, I'm pro-choice and anything "legal" that a person watches in his/her own home is none of my business.
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ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1278
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 1:34 am: |
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Come to think of it, there is a man somewhere out in the Northwest (Montana? North Dakota?) who wanted to build an entire town specifically for deaf people. I suppose that is along the same lines as what Monaghan wants to do.
The difference to me is that the town for the deaf would have special accommodations, while the Monaghan town is a microcosm of the ultraconservatism that frightens me so. Yes, people have the right to live where they choose, and people have the right to spend money as they choose. Yet, this seems to be a direct violation of separation of church and state.
The Hasidim and the Amish reside in cities and towns that are governed by secular law. They run their own communities based upon their own religious beliefs, but the towns in which they reside were not founded, as Dominoville seems to be, or will be, on religious tenets. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 10864
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 5:06 am: |
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I think at this point Ava Maria is pretty much a large sub-division, not a government entity. The issues will start if Tom and friends try to incorporate the sub-division and include their views in the ordinances.
Ess, read the link about Kirays Joel posted by Sportsnut, especially about their school district.
Different faith, same thing.
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ess
Citizen
Username: Ess
Post Number: 1282
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 9:20 am: |
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Bob K, where is that link?
(Btw - on a completely unrelated topic, I most certainly do have a sense of humor.) |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3551
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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...which is more than can be said for Mikey "The Fiddler" Stratechuk...
-s. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5128
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
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With all due respect, Mr. Soda, your gratuitous dragging of someone's name into this discussion, just so you could make your (misdirected) snarky comment, wasn't really funny.
Actually, your last comment wasn't that funny, either.
And, for the record, I happen to disagree with Mr. Stratechuk regarding whether the music lawsuit should continue - but I also don't think that he, or anybody else, should be subject to random "shots" on the local message board. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3554
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 5:31 pm: |
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Thanks so much for the useful notes, Nohero. Next time I'm about to attempt gratuitous politically targetted semi-satirical humor here on MOL, you can bet I'll be PLing you for your insights as to what's really funny.
As to whether Michael or any other public person should be be subject to commentary by posters on these threads, let's just say I don't share your point of view. For some reason, the name "George Bush" suddenly leaps to mind...
...How nice, though, that you and I seem to see eye to eye regarding "the music lawsuit".
Yours in misdirected snarkiness,
-s. |
anon
Supporter
Username: Anon
Post Number: 2633
Registered: 6-2002
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 5:52 pm: |
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The music lawsuit continues? Hasn't another Christmas come and gone since it was filed? Hasn't the membership of the Board of Ed changed and hasn't the music policy been clarified or modified since the suit began?
How long will this lawsuit continue? Will it be like Jarndyce v. Jarndyce? Will it continue until the Second Coming? |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2480
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Saturday, March 4, 2006 - 10:57 pm: |
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Nohero, I understand your point. However, Michael Stratechuk's name will forever be linked with the Thomas More Law Center and thus with Monaghan and his ideology. (I think it's always a good idea to take a good look at who you're getting into bed with, you know?)
I think TMLC would love to take this case down to D.C., especially now that Sam the man is on the job. You know, the guy who told Jersey City that as long as Frosty and Santa were present there was no issue of separation of Church and State with a city-sponsored Nativity Scene? No, it didn't require acknowledgement of other religions. Just a little secular spinning. |
Nohero
Supporter
Username: Nohero
Post Number: 5130
Registered: 10-1999
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 9:16 pm: |
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I guess I was misunderstood.
I was just commenting on the "drive by" attacks that sometimes turn up in these threads.
If Soda had started a thread entitled "Why the H*ll is There Still a Music Lawsuit", I would have joined in to say, "Yeah, why?"
But, that's not what's being discussed here.
The town of "Ave Maria" is a bad idea, or a good idea, on its own - it doesn't matter if it's the Domino's guy who wants to be "Little Caesar". I think it's a bad idea, but I can say that without taking any random shots at anybody I may disagree with, about some other issue.
But, as a peace offering, may I submit some of the lyrics to Tom Lehrer's "Vatican Rag" (which, by the way, is a song that you can only really appreciate if you are Catholic) -Make a cross on your ab-DO-men,
When in Rome do like a Roman,
Ave Maria,
Gee it's good to see ya,
Gettin' ecstatic an'
Sorta dramatic an'
Doin' the Vatican Rag! |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12740
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, March 5, 2006 - 11:29 pm: |
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Yes, I see the point that the Amish, Hassidic and other communities have already set a precedent, so I should -- and will -- relax about this idea. I don't have to like the thought of living there in order to live and let live.
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kathleen
Citizen
Username: Symbolic
Post Number: 456
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Monday, March 6, 2006 - 12:59 pm: |
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You know, the town of Newark is, historically, New Ark. It was founded by a group of fundamentalist Puritans who moved from, I believe, New Canaan, because they thought the Puritans there had become sinning liberals.
It's just as American as apple pie to take an extreme view of religion and found a commnity dedicated to fulffilling that vision.
It's funny, but people spend quite a bit of money visiting the Amish country and admiring the community there. Hard to see a difference -- other than some people like dutch baloney and some like pepperoni.
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