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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 5864
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 1:19 pm: | 
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A friend just emailed me asking about the double shooting on Springfield Ave. last Friday - gang related. Has anyone heard of this? |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 628
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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yes mem, there was a front page article in the news-record last week on this. |
C Bataille
Citizen
Username: Nakaille
Post Number: 2489
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 1:26 pm: |
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there is a thread in S.O.Specific that references it with a link to a Star-Ledger article. I read the article. Nothing about gangs. But a fight which started at B. Hathaways with one bystander grazed by a bullet. Here's the article that JTA posted:
"Police hunt gunman who shot 2 in bar
MAPLEWOOD: Police are still looking for a man who shot two people following a fight at B. Hathaway's Sports on early Saturday morning. Authorities said a fight broke out at the crowded bar around 1 a.m.
Policed Capt. Walter Mueller said he did not know what the fight was about. The gunman shot Christopher Phillips, 19, of Irvington and Taliah Young, 23, of Newark.
Young was a bystander who was grazed by a bullet in her back. She was taken to University Hospital where she was treated and released. Phillips, was involved in the fight, said Mueller.
Phillips was shot several times and also taken to University Hospital, where he was listed in serious condition yesterday. Mueller said police do not have a description of the shooter and do not know if he fled on foot or in a vehicle."
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12897
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, March 13, 2006 - 3:18 pm: |
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I think it's a pasta recipe that calls for two shots of vodka.
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marie
Citizen
Username: Marie
Post Number: 1408
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:47 am: |
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Glad you think this incident is amusing Tom.
Christopher Phillips was shot FOUR times, two more times than several. There's no description of the shooter, no one knows why the fight broke out and no one knows how the shooter got away.
Who needs to watch the Sopranos - We've our own modern day version of it playing out right underneath our noses only it's not the Genovese and Gotti families who are the players. It's the Crips and the Bloods...
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12915
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 11:54 am: |
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I'm very sorry. It's not funny. I was trying to release steam from a scary situation. Making a joke doesn't necessarily mean the joker doesn't take the situation seriously. It's a way of trying to find a way for life to go on.
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Eponymous
Citizen
Username: Eponymous
Post Number: 131
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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4 is several; it's two more than a couple.
That said, it was a single shooting with a bystander being mildly injured. Nothing to ignore, to be sure, but not as bad as the thread title suggests. It also seems to have taken place in a bar, not on the avenue. |
Joe R.
Citizen
Username: Ragnatela
Post Number: 312
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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What's a 19 year old kid doing in the bar? There goes the liquor license. Maybe he was drinking shirley temples. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 986
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 12:53 pm: |
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Joe, I have been waiting for someone to point that out. I see some lawsuits in the future on this. |
Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 5937
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:30 pm: |
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There was nothing in the Star Ledger article to indicate that this was gang related. Has any crime that is committed in and around our area, with our without guns, now become de facto GANG crime??
And for the record..
Quote:Being of a number more than two or three but not many
I am sorry that it happened and I am not blind to gang influence in our town, but really, to say that this is a Soprano-esque shooting between the Bloods and the Crips is reactionary, at best, and irresponsible at worst.
And if it turns out subsequently to be a "gang" hit, or attempted hit, then I will be contrite. |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 5868
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:35 pm: |
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The friend who I talked to about this is a detective in Essex County (not MSO!) and he said it was gang related. No surprise, we're 1/2 hour from NYC. I was also told that we're lucky to have such good police officers in MSO or it would be much worse. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12923
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 1:57 pm: |
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This will sound dumb, but what difference does it make if it's gang related? A crime is a crime. I think we should aim to eradicate crime first and gangs next.
If gangs didn't commit crime, would we still want to eradicate them?
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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 5872
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 2:44 pm: |
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From Wikepedia:
A gang is a group of individuals who share a common identity and, in current usage, engage in illegal activities. Historically the term referred to both criminal groups and ordinary groups of friends, such as Our Gang. Some anthropologists believe that the gang structure is one of the most ancient forms of human organizations.
Some commentators use "gang" to refer to small, informal, and disorganized "street gangs", while "syndicate" or "organized crime" are used to refer to larger, more powerful organizations, such as the Italian-American Mafia, which may control entire legitimate businesses as "fronts" for their illegal operations.
The word "gang" generally appears in a pejorative context, though within "the gang" itself members may adopt the phrase in proud identity or defiance.
Gang activities
Most commonly, the word "gang" refers to street gangs or sometimes "youth gangs", groups who take over territory or "turf" in a particular city and are often involved in "providing protection", often a thin cover for extortion, as the "protection" is usually from the gang itself, or in other criminal activity. Since roughly the 1970s, street gangs have been strongly connected with drug sales (especially crack cocaine). Some commit burglaries, car theft, and armed robbery. Most members retain their gang affiliations when sent to prison (see prison gang). Many gangs use fronts to demonstrate influence and gain revenue in a particular area. These clandestine bases may include restaurants, bars, casinos, race tracks, strip clubs, or other business.
i like to touch little boys
mr formato at calhoun high school merrick ny 11566
[edit]
Gang identification
Gangs have been known to claim colors such as red or blue, a trend that started as far back as the late 18th century and early 19th century with the rivalry of the Roach Guards and the Dead Rabbits of New York's Five Points district and later with Mexican bandits and roving marauders in what would later become the Southwest/Western United States. (In the United States, especially in the 1950s and 1960s, "gang colors" can refer to the entire design of a gang jacket.)
Gangs often spread by a parent or family moving out of the gang neighborhood, and the children taking the gang culture and lore with them to a new area and recruiting new members for their old gang. This concept has been referred to as satellite gangs. Some very well known gangs are the California-based Crips and Bloods, or the Sureños and Norteños. Other large gangs include the Aryan Brotherhood, a mostly prison-based white power gang, the Nazi Low Riders, or NLR, the Latin Kings, Vice Lords, and the Gangster Disciples of Chicago, the Los Angeles-based 18th Street gang, and the Jamaican Posses. In the 1980s, other gangs, such as the Central American sureño gang named Mara Salvatrucha (MS-13), the Miami based International Posse or In/p and the Asian Boyz (ABZ) emerged. At one point, there was an alleged cybergang by the name of Glock 3, but it turned out to be a hoax.
Before the 1970's heroin and marijuana were sold by the street gangs in Los Angeles.
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Gang types
Apart from street gangs, there are motorcycle gangs (such as Hells Angels, the Gypsy Jokers, Mongols, Vagos, etc.), as well as other clubs that might be designated as gangs based around other shared hobbies or activities. These gangs tend to go international with their activities as soon as they can. The Crips in Los Angeles are famous for bringing their terror in a similar fashion to other cities around the world such as New York and most recently in Barbados.
There are also numerous prison gangs or Security Threat Groups (such as the Mexican gang la Eme—the Mexican Mafia), organized criminal mafias (a term deriving originally from the Italian, but now also applied to the Russian Mafia).
There are also ethnically identified gangs, such as Asian criminal gangs (such as Chinese triads, Indian thuggees, Korean gangpeh, and the Japanese yakuza, as well as Chinese-American identified, and that many gangs (especially prison gangs) maintain some ethnic majority or stereotype.
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Gang members
Individual members of gangs may be referred to as gangsters or "gangbangers
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Gang warfare
Gang warfare is the conflict between opposing gangs.
Gang warfare is commonly held over turf boundary disputes, the takeover of an area in order to bring in narcotics to push on the streets, personal rivalries, or simply the fact that the opposing group is different in some way. Gang warfare takes a huge toll on cities, families, and communities involved, especially many cities in South/Central America and South Africa where the levels of gang violence have long dwarfed even American cities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_gang |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1284
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
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I've got to tell you, I'm a little unsure as to what mr formato's sexual preferences have to do with gangs...
... but why target gangs? Hell, why NOT target gangs? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12932
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:12 pm: |
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If the investigation leads to a gang, then sure, follow that lead.
The police now define a gang by very loose definition. It could be as little as dressing a certain way and using certain popular gestures. Those are not crimes, and they're often a poor indicator of criminal activity.
Why not target gangs? Heck, a disproportionate number of crimes is committed by blacks, so why not target blacks? See the problem with that logic? Of course, gangs are not an "affected minority" and deserve no special treatment, but "why not" is a bad place to start.
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Duncan
Supporter
Username: Duncanrogers
Post Number: 5939
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 3:59 pm: |
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Ok mem, I stand corrected.
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1285
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:11 pm: |
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So Tom... what is the purpose of a gang? Something positive and socially redeeming? Or something obviously negative?
I think there's a world of difference between the groupings of "blacks" and "gangs", don't you?
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dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1478
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:18 pm: |
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Tom,
When people think of gangs and the mafia, they think of the violent cycle of retaliation. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12935
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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As I said, yes, there's a big difference between blacks and gangs, but as statisticians love to say, correlation does not prove causality. And "why not?" is the wrong place to start in doing making accusations.
That presentation in November (?) showed the very loose definition of gangs. It left things open wide enough so that we can classify nearly anyone as a gang member. Guilt by association?
See the wikipedia entry above. If we use one of those definitions, then the purpose of a gang is not to commit crimes and not obviously negative. There are crime gangs, but by the police's own accidental admission, there are non-criminal gangs, too. They imply that such gangs are in danger of becoming criminal, which may be true, but it's an assertion one should not make cavalierly.
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mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 5875
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:22 pm: |
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Case,
I just copied and pasted that text from Wikepedia, and I don't know where this came from:
"i like to touch little boys
mr formato at calhoun high school merrick ny 11566"
Very strange and creepy! |
Dave
Supporter
Username: Dave
Post Number: 8877
Registered: 4-1997
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:24 pm: |
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What would be an example of a non-criminal gang? The knitting group? |
dave23
Citizen
Username: Dave23
Post Number: 1479
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 4:25 pm: |
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Domo arigato, Mr. Formato,
Mata ah-oo hima de
Domo arigato, Mr. Formato,
Himitsu wo shiri tai
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12939
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 5:52 pm: |
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dave23, you're right that "gang" evokes the image of criminals. So we need a new word.
In the meantime, how does it help when someone offers conjecture that a crime is gang related?
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1289
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 7:25 pm: |
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I think its indictitive of a larger problem when it's gang related, quite frankly. A random crime of passion is bad - these things happen. When crimes are occuring as part of some ridiculous "turf war", things would seem to be a lot more serious.
Which gang 'owns' the neighborhood? How about neither - crack down hard on the gangs and the problem is solved.
I realize this may jeopardize the civil liberties of our young citizens... and gosh, that does worry me.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 12943
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 14, 2006 - 10:35 pm: |
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I concede your points in your last message, Case.
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