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Message |
    
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13150
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 5:37 pm: | 
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/21/AR2006032101647. html
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3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 108
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 7:16 pm: |
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I think it was Robert Heinlein who said that an armed society is a polite society. Some of the most heavily armed social orders in history have been noted for elaborate rituals of courtesy, etc. Think of Medieval Knights, Japanese Samurai, even cowboys on the American frontier and so on.
Now just for fun, consider the possibility of some kind of correlation between arms and manners. 21st century America may be one of the first societies in human history where adult men do not bear arms as a matter of course. Many boys (I would say most boys, but I don't know what the numbers are) are not routinely brought up learning some sort of weapons skill. 21st century America is also (in my opinion) one of the rudest and crudest in history. Starting with my own generation (Baby Boom), we seem to have gleefully jettsioned any kind of etiquette in speech, table manners, dress, courtesy, etc. Perhaps I am overreacting and generalizing because there are, to be sure many exceptions. I also don't think this can be turned around if we start carrying rapiers or revolvers, but I do feel that we have lost something good. And it makes me sad.
Cheers |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7027
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 8:33 pm: |
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This is why I adore Miss Manners... |
campbell29
Citizen
Username: Campbell29
Post Number: 386
Registered: 4-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 9:03 pm: |
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There are place where children are appropriate and there are places where they are not. I would take my daughter, who is 8 to any restaurant because she behaves like a "civilized human being". You would be no more likely to notice her than an adult.
That being said, she got her training at family friendly restaurants where she was taught how to act like a "civilized human being". If she misbehaved there, it was much easier to pick her up and evaucate her until she was ready to behave.
I have relatives in my family who can't go out with their children, anywhere, because they are not well-behaved. I think its important that children do learn that there are places and times where they can't free-range and act like children. Its the parent's duty to make sure that their children are under control. Unfortunately, many parents think that everyone finds their children as endearing as they do. |
Montagnard
Citizen
Username: Montagnard
Post Number: 1912
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 10:09 pm: |
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We have explained to our children and their guests the number one rule for children at house parties or other adult events: do not needlessly annoy the grown-ups.
They grasp this quickly and do not cause problems. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 613
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 11:17 pm: |
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"Unfortunately, many parents think that everyone finds their children as endearing as they do."
Maybe it's because some kids never grow up and they become parents. |
crabby
Citizen
Username: Crabbyappleton
Post Number: 519
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:17 am: |
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I don't think it's a never growing up thing. I think it's a growing up self-centeredly thing and afraid that their kids won't like them if they try discipline thing. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11022
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:43 am: |
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So 3ring, are you advocating arming the kids? Yah know start them out with a .25 automatic when they are three and four and moving them up to a .40 Glock by the time they are seniors in high school? 
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kmk
Supporter
Username: Kmk
Post Number: 1092
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 9:01 am: |
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I was thinking all night about the weapons - manners connection that 3rings brought up. I started to believe it...
Then I remembered Israel. The citizens are armed to their eye-teeth and yet there have been a number of NYT articles on their lack of basic etiquette. The business there have begun to hire consultants to train employees in the most simple things like answering telephones politely! |
Brokeback Straw
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 6987
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 9:05 am: |
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Oh, I assumed this thread was about Nohero and Bobk...
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3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 109
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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kmk,
I didn't know that about Israel, I may have to reconsider a few things.
Bobk,
It's not so much that weapons would make people polite. I was thinking more along the lines that in a society where weapons are commonplace, people might be a little better behaved. I read a good book a few years back about the Wild West and it turned out to be a lot less wild than you would guess from the movies. I just think there is too much boorish behavior today.
Cheers |
thoughtful
Citizen
Username: Thoughtful
Post Number: 182
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:23 pm: |
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"She would of been a good woman," The Misfit said, "if it had been somebody there to shoot her every minute of her life." |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2701
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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Yeah, armed kids are usually nicer.
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3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 110
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 8:43 pm: |
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themp,
I could be mistaken, but I think I saw those kids on Springfield Avenue last Saturday.
Cheers |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11038
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 7:55 am: |
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3ring, I am a Henlein fan, especially his early work and am familar with the quotation and the context.
Sometimes, however, an armed society can backfire. A few years ago Florida had a rash of killings during carjackings of tourists in rental cars. I strongly suspect this had a lot to do with their "carry law" that has resulted in a fairly large percentage of the population packing heat and the bad guys lack of desire to get into a gunfight during a mugging or store robbery. |
3ringale
Citizen
Username: Threeringale
Post Number: 112
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 8:47 am: |
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Bob K,
I'll admit that I sometimes like to paint with a broad brush, but I was mostly just ruminating on the basis of the original article.
I had forgotten about the Florida situation you mention. That, and the Israel angle brought up by kmk means that I have mull this over some more.
Weapons by themselves are neither good nor evil. Perhaps we could modify Heinlein a bit and say something like: In a healthy social order (and I would put some stress on the word "order"), an armed populace would not necessarily lead to mayhem in the streets.
I still think there is way too much incidental rudeness and incivility. I think it was Oscar Wilde who said that a gentleman never insults anyone accidentally.
Cheers
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