| Author |
Message |
    
joeltfk
Citizen
Username: Joeltfk
Post Number: 368
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:03 am: | 
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I'm writing a column for the News-Record on the new smoking ban and am looking for SOMA resident, particularly SMOKERS to comment. Is it a good idea for the benefit of shop workers and patrons, or is it an infringement on what should be personal rights? Just POST here. Also let me kow what places in Maplewood and S.O. people like to smoke -- Bunny's, Cryan's, St. James' Gate, etc.
If you want to send me a private thought, I'm at joelscorp@gmail.com. The column is called GRAIN OF SALT.
Thanks,
Joel |
Dogbert
Citizen
Username: Dogbert
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:34 am: |
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Go to Bagel Chateau in the morning. They have...make that "had"... a few regular smokers. |
Amie Brockway-Metcalf
Citizen
Username: Amie
Post Number: 523
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 7:47 pm: |
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My husband and I brought our toddler and baby sons to Bunny's for lunch on Saturday. We've been before and enjoyed the food and the small-town atmosphere, but couldn't handle the smoke. We specifically went on Saturday to try and make up for lost smoker's business, and we'll go again, along with Cryan's and St James. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 641
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 8:07 pm: |
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If the restaurants cared about smokers business they would have protested the ban. |
eb1154
Citizen
Username: Eb1154
Post Number: 487
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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I do believe they did. Wasn't it just heard in court on Thursday? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4696
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 8:17 pm: |
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Joel
Are you a smoker? How about doing a column about how glad a lot of us are for the ban. There was an interesting column in today's Ledger about this. Do I feel bad for smokers? Yes and No. At least I can go to places and not have to worry about smelling like an ashtray anymore. |
eb1154
Citizen
Username: Eb1154
Post Number: 488
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 8:25 pm: |
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Joe,
I think the law stinks. It discriminates against my rights. Before the law the nonsmokers had a choice to go to bars and eateries that were smoke free. Now what is my choice? And what about all the money I have paid in tobacco taxes all these years. I didn't hear anyone complaining about my smoking while they were using my tax dollars. Whenever the government needed more money they raised the tax on cigarettes. An average pack of cigarettes costs $6.25 a pack, how much of that went to the government and how much went to the tobacco companies?
Eric Burbank |
Carla
Citizen
Username: Elbowroom
Post Number: 69
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 9:55 pm: |
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I say raise 'em again!
Benefits from a Cigarette Tax Increase in New Jersey
Current State Cigarette Tax: 80 Cents Per Pack (9th among all states)
Last New Jersey Cigarette Tax Increase: January 1, 1998
Inflation since then: +10.3% Cigarette price increases since then: +45.2%
Decline in cigarette tax revenues since then (in current dollars): -$61 million/year
Today's inflation-adjusted tax rate would be: 88 cents per pack
Projected Benefits From Increasing State Cigarette Taxes By 50 Cents Per Pack
New state cigarette tax revenues each year: $213.5 million
New state sales tax revenues: $8.1 million
Fewer packs of cigarettes smoked each year: 24.8 million
Increase in total number of kids alive today who will not become smokers: 34,400
Number of current adult smokers in the state who would quit: 32,500
Number of smoking-affected births avoided over next five years: 5,150
Number of current adult smokers saved from smoking-caused death: 7,100
Number of kids alive today saved from premature smoking-caused death: 11,000
5-Year healthcare savings from fewer smoking-affected pregnancies & births: $5.9 million
5-year healthcare savings from fewer smoking-caused heart attacks & strokes: $11.5 million
Long-term healthcare savings in state from adult & youth smoking declines: $680.9 million
Cigarette tax increases both reduce smoking levels and increase state revenues because the increased tax per pack brings in more new revenue than is lost from the decrease in the number of packs sold. Sales tax revenues from cigarette sales similarly increase, despite fewer pack sales, because the state sales tax percentage applies to the total retail price of a cigarette pack, including the increased state cigarette tax amount.
Sources:
Orzechowski & Walker, Tax Burden on Tobacco, 2001. Economic Research Service, USDA, Tobacco Briefing Room, www.ers.usda.gov/Briefing/tobacco. U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Average price of a pack of cigarettes includes all applicable federal and statewide excise and sales taxes but not any purely local taxes. Projections reflect estimate that a 10% cigarette price increase reduces youth smoking rates by 6.5%, adult rates by 2%, and total consumption by 4%, and assume that tax will be adjusted for inflation. Chaloupka, F, “Macro-Social Influences: Effects of Prices and Tobacco Control Policies on the Demand for Tobacco Products," Nicotine & Tobacco Research, 1999, and other price studies at http://tigger.uic.edu/~fjc and www.uic.edu/orgs/impacteen. Revenue projections are conservative, but do not account for possible changes in smuggling or cross-border sales into or from the state.
U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), State Tobacco Control Highlights 2001, www.cdc.gov/tobacco.
CDC, “Projected Smoking-Related Deaths Among Youth -- United States,” Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report (MMWR) 45(44): 971-97, November 8, 1996. Kids stopped from smoking and dying = from all kids alive today
Lightwood, J. & S. Glantz, "Short-Term Economic and Health Benefits of Smoking Cessation - Myocardial Infarction and Stroke," Circulation 96(4): 1089-1096, August 19, 1997, http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/96/4/1089; Miller, P., et al., "Birth and First-Year Costs for Mothers and Infants Attributable to Maternal Smoking," Nicotine & Tobacco Research
3(1): 25-35, February 2001 [costs from pregnancy smoking average $1,142 - $1,358 per affected birth]; Hodgsen, T., "Cigarette Smoking and Lifetime Medical Expenditures," The Millbank Quarterly 70(1), 1992 [average smoker's lifetime healthcare costs $12,000 more than nonsmokers, despite dying sooner]. Long-term savings accrue over lifetimes ofpersons who stop smoking or never smoke because of tax increase.
See, also, the Campaign fact sheets, Raising State Tobacco Taxes Always Reduces Tobacco Use (& Always Increases State Revenues); and Toll of Tobacco in New Jersey www.tobaccofreekids.org/research/factsheets.
National Center for Tobacco-Free Kids, March19, 2002 / Eric Lindblom |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4708
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:02 pm: |
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Glock
They did. As eb pointed out it was heard in court last week. The restaurants lost. The ban went into effect as planned. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4709
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:21 pm: |
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Amie
I love the pizza and chicken fingers at Bunny's, but would go very rarely because of the smoke. Now I'll be able to go more often. Also, there is a dive bar on Liberty Ave near the entrance for 78 that has really great bands. Even though I don't drink, I did like some of the bands. The problem was the smoke would be so thick there you could cut it with a knife! My friends and I went 4 or 5 times over the course of 6 or so months. I had to stop going because not only did my clothes and hair reek of smoke, my car would too! |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4710
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
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Carla-
Wow! What a lot of information! Thanks! |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1158
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Sunday, April 16, 2006 - 11:09 pm: |
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I think this ban is a blow to civil liberties. I have no problem with a bar/restaurant that chooses to be smoke free. What we don't need is more of the government telling business owners how they have to run their businesses. If people have a problem with smoke then they should find a different place to go. Right here in Maplewood there is a business that has chosen to be smoke free, Here's To The Arts. People who complain about business which allows smoking should frequent a place that suits them. They should not have government force everyone to think their way. If a business wants to allow smoking, the customer wants to smoke, and the employees do not mind the smoke, what is the problem?
Joel, I think you will find that many of the people who frequent bars also smoke. It would be interesting if you spoke with some employees and business owners in the area to see what they think about it. They are the ones directly affected by this on a daily basis.
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CFA
Citizen
Username: Cfa
Post Number: 1626
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 4:56 am: |
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Now that the whiners are going to frequent eating establishments more often, I see alot of people becoming FAT in Maplewood/South Orange. I think I may open a Weight Watcher's franchise in the area. I love it! |
Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1368
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 7:09 am: |
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I'm assuming you've got good contacts in the Whining community; you should make a fortune on personal referrals alone.
Good luck! |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3756
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:16 am: |
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A modest proposal...
http://www.southorangevillage.com/cgi-bin/show.cgi?tpc=3127&post=585312#POST5853 12
-s. |
MeAndTheBoys
Citizen
Username: Meandtheboys
Post Number: 3531
Registered: 12-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:43 am: |
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I couldn't be happier about the ban. I can't stand the stink of cigarettes, particularly since I don't smoke them. I don't appreciate being subjected to the risks of second hand smoke. Most of all, I love this ban because now I don't have to worry about my kids being subjected to the risks of second hand smoke.
If there are folks in the world who are idiotic enough to subject themselves to the risks of smoking, they can go ahead and enjoy that disgusting habit in the privacy of their own homes, but, as far as I'm concerned they have no right to put me or my children at risk.
Can't wait to go enjoy a smoke free evening at Bunnies. I too avoided the place simply because of the smoke. Now I don't have to worry any more. |
mickey
Citizen
Username: Mickey
Post Number: 425
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 8:58 am: |
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Meand,
I agree. I also know a lot of restaurant and bar workers who are thrilled not to be exposed to 2nd hand smoke day in and day out. I remember flight attendants were very happy and relieved when smoking was banned on airlines a number of years ago. (So were the vast majority of passengers)
See you at Bunnies, and the Pub. |
SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 1237
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 9:35 am: |
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eb: that ban is not just to protect other patrons, but also to protect the workers in public places. they have less of an option to go somewhere else and they are constantly exposed to unfiltered smoke which basically gives them a high risk of getting lung cancer and other diseases. is it fair to them to have their health affected in that way?
on a personal note, I don't understand why people smoke. I understand the addiction, but what's the initial attraction to sucking smoke into your body and blowing it out. it can't be the taste. yes, I've tried smoking but I just don't see the point.  Hunkering down for the flames (or smoke) |
Dogbert
Citizen
Username: Dogbert
Post Number: 79
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 9:46 am: |
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SOSully - It's cool and your parents hate it.
PS - I used to be uncomfortable with banning smoking in this way, but I've had enough. It's a revolting, undeniably unhealthy habit and the more we ostracize people for doing it the sooner it will be uncool for everyone. |
SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 1238
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
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oh right!
and by the time you realize it's not cool, you're hooked. ok, but then let's not make everyone else sick too |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7258
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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I think that this is a great law to protect people who have to work in these environments. But, I don't feel sorry for people who had choices to begin with. There are a gazillion places to go if you don't want to patronize a place. Including take-out. I am happy that I won't smell like smoke, either. But if I didn't feel like being around it, I'd go elsewhere.
NY Mangazine did a piece on the 1 year ban in NYC a few weeks ago. The economic impact didn't seem to be what anyone feared. I just hope that, for us, it doesn't mean a reduced number of adult venues.
Lord knows that I am a huge anti-smoking fanatic. But, I quit 19 years ago and I still crave them. And I think this demonization of smokers is unfair. Yes, there are rude smokers. But perhaps if people didn't approach them like dogshit, many of them wouldn't be so nasty or defensive. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4721
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:15 am: |
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Mc Cheesy-
I'm willing to bet Bunny's does not see a drop in their business! I'm also willing to be they actually see an INCREASE! I do feel sorry for Leslie though.
Meand, micky, SoSully and Dog, I'm agree with all of you!
I think anyone who starts smoking in this day and age must not have been paying attention to all the warnings about the dangers of smoking. Like I said in another post, it's been said those the angriest about the smoking ban tend to be those addicted to the nicotine, which is a drug. Most of the smokers I know welcome then ban as it gives them more of an incentive to quit.
I heard a little while ago on 101.5 radio station a bill to ban smoking in the casinos has already been introduced. Hope it passes as well.
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Hank Zona
Supporter
Username: Hankzona
Post Number: 5464
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:18 am: |
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Funny you mention demonizing smokers, greenetree, since someone said this to me yesterday, when I said smokers who go to bars will still go to bars...he said, yes, because they are also all alcoholics.
I think it will increase bar business because alot of folks will go for a drink or two who werent inclined to go before because of smoking and most who do smoke and go to bars will still go to bars, not because they are mostly alcoholics, but because they like bars. I am guessing most smokers didnt go to bars because they could smoke there. |
SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 1239
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:24 am: |
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It will be nice not to have to send my whole wardrobe (including coats, scarves, etc) to the dry cleaners each time I go to a restaurant. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7259
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 10:39 am: |
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Hank - many bar/restaurant owners in NY said the same thing - business was up or even. One said he'd like to be able to put in a separate room for smokers. Another wasn't so sure that it had a postive impact on business. But no businesses suffered.
The gloating wiil (please, I hope) stop soon enough. Under the logic of the person you were speaking with yesterday, we should see a huge rise in alcoholism, especially here on MOL. There have been numerous posts by people who can't wait to go to bars now, and they will apparently all turn into alcoholics. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1162
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 12:41 pm: |
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greene - That is not true for all NY bars. Quite a few closed as a result of the ban. You can go tell all those people who lost jobs and their livelihood that it didn't hurt them.
SOSully - Workers had every choice in the world not to work in a smoke environment. By law you do not have to work in a smoking area of a business if you do not want to. Also, people who are not happy with their work environment can find a new job. That is the way it works in the rest of the business world.
mickey - Are you sure about that? Maybe you should ask people who work in bars/restaurants how they actually feel about this law. As a person who currently works in this field I can tell you that, overwhelmingly, employees are not happy about this law.
I just wish that before lawmakers tried to "help" the workers in this field they asked them if they even wanted help. The majority of workers were fine with the way things were. Why fix something that isn't broken?
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Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2897
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 1:10 pm: |
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Can you name a bar or restaurant in NY that cited the smoking ban as the reason they closed? And where it wasn't used as an excuse for a failing business? |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4725
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 2:07 pm: |
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Hank-
Someone on MOL told me I was nuts or something like that for not wanting to be treated by those in the medical field who smoked. Wonder which is worse? Being an alcoholic or nuts? |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1164
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 2:13 pm: |
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Ratsro, I did a quick goole search and found one list here:
http://www.davehitt.com/facts/badforbiz.html
"ALBANY, N.Y. -- Groups representing New York state bar owners contend the statewide smoking ban has cost their industry about 2,000 jobs.
A study released Tuesday by the New York Nightlife Association and the Empire State Restaurant and Tavern Association said the ban that went into effect in July has also led to $28.5 million in lost wages and $37 million in lost gross state product. Affiliated businesses lost another 650 jobs and $56 million in wages and production, the study by Ridgewood Economic Associates said."
It is important to remember that most stats for NY have bars/restaurants put together. It does not appear that business has been hurt in most restaurants, but what about separating the bars from the restaurants and looking at those numbers. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1165
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 2:15 pm: |
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JTA, what is worse, being an alcoholic or being a person who is nuts and dead becuase they didn't let a smoker help them? |
Dr. Winston O'Boogie
Citizen
Username: Casey
Post Number: 2037
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 2:54 pm: |
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Apparently, the only studies that show smoking bans hurt business are those paid for by the restaurant or tobacco industries. Peer reviewed articles conducted by economists apparently show otherwise:
http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2004/09/28/loc_loc1asmoke.html
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SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 1240
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 3:04 pm: |
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mayor: tell that to the waiters, waitresses and bartenders who need a job |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1168
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 3:13 pm: |
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I would be happy to. |
eb1154
Citizen
Username: Eb1154
Post Number: 489
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 3:29 pm: |
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As I said before, I'm not going to argue the law, it is what it is. I just can't wait to see all the threads about annoying little kids in every eatery in town. Me personally, I would rather deal with the smoke than all these little annoying kids screaming while I'm trying to have a conversation. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 2904
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 3:51 pm: |
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As a smoker, you would. That's not a slight. Just as parents who are used to dealing with "these little annoying kids" might prefer the kids to smoking. |
Wendyn
Supporter
Username: Wendyn
Post Number: 2958
Registered: 9-2002
| | Posted on Monday, April 17, 2006 - 4:05 pm: |
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I'd rather deal with neither the smoke nor the little annoying kids screaming.
Unfortunately since the kids are mine, I do have to deal with them.
It will be interesting though to see how many more families go to places like the Gate, which I avoided (both with and without the kiddos) because of the smoke. |
Just The Aunt
Supporter
Username: Auntof13
Post Number: 4730
Registered: 1-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 2:32 am: |
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Mc Cheesy-
Considering I've never had a problem having another tech do whatever as well as getting another nurse when requested or finding another doctor to treat me; residents don't count, I doubt I'm ever going to find myself dead from not being treated by a smoker.
However, unless an alcoholic stops drinking they will end up in jail, the hospital or a grave. I think I'd rather be nuts. I already have brain damge anyway. 
BTW- Maybe Blaze can answer this since he reads the board. Has Bunny's a decrease in business since Saturday? |
Pizzaz
Supporter
Username: Pizzaz
Post Number: 3494
Registered: 11-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:13 am: |
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It's too early to say. Irrespective of ones opinion, it is the law of the state and must be abided. We are hopeful that the ban will increase patronage by families with children and others who have avoided the occasions for a relaxed meal because of second hand smoke concerns. If this should occur, we'll be grateful!
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joeltfk
Citizen
Username: Joeltfk
Post Number: 369
Registered: 8-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 10:41 am: |
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Thanks for all your help. The column will appear in Thursday's News-Record with quotations from three of you. (I'm using real names in the piece so I will not "out" anyone here).
The column is called GRAIN OF SALT.
Thanks again!!
Joel |
BGS
Supporter
Username: Bgs
Post Number: 940
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
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Joel- Thread drift....I love your column. You are the best thing to happen to the Record in years!!! Please keep up the good work!!
BGS |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 193
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:07 pm: |
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I love the ban. I hated going into a place (Cryan's or Bunny's for example) and dealing with the smoke. It's a filthy and disgusting habit which taxes our health care system. Also, it is downright tacky. I'm all for hounding smokers and making them feel like the uncomfortable losers that they are at every opportunity.
But now the smokers will just go out on the sidewalks. If you think SO is dirty now and has a lot of trash downtown, wait till you see the sidewalks in front of Bunny's, Cryan's, etc. post ban. Smokers should also be fined for littering.
Hell, let's go all the way and criminalize smoking! Drag all the pathetic, nicotine stained trolls to the slammer. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1178
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:12 pm: |
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betty, I am all for hounding stupid people to make them feel uncomfortable. I am going to start with you. |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1179
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:14 pm: |
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Sorry (sort of), I am usually not that harsh, but that was one of the stupidest most unintelligent posts I have read on this board. And god knows I have read a lot, and post a lot of stupid things. But that take the cake. |
bettyd
Citizen
Username: Badjtdso
Post Number: 195
Registered: 12-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:33 pm: |
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Mayor, I don't take any offense. No need to apologize.
Let's label nicotine a drug (which it is) and criminalize smoking. We'll save a lot of money, lives and probably the health care system. We could build smoker's prisons, and have a really annoying smell waft through the ventilation system which burns their eyes and makes their clothes reek. Then we can withold medical care when they inevitably contract a smoking related disease. I'm going to call my Congressmen! |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7289
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:46 pm: |
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You're kidding, right?
I sure hope so, because the last thing that this community needs is another perfect, pompous know-it-all. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7290
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 18, 2006 - 5:48 pm: |
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Oh, BTW. Before you make such definitive statements, make sure that you know everything about everyone around you; their personal struggles, their families. You never know who you are calling names. |
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