| Author | Message | ||
     Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4682 Registered: 1-2004  |
NJ will go SMOKE FREE in most public places! YEAH! I can NOT WAIT!!! I can go out tomorrow night and not come home smelling like an ashtray! | ||
| ken (the other one) Citizen Username: Ken Post Number: 395 Registered: 5-2001  |
YES!!!!! | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4685 Registered: 1-2004 |
28 minutes and counting!!! | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2886 Registered: 5-2004  |
It's over... | ||
| TomR Citizen Username: Tomr Post Number: 1052 Registered: 6-2001 |
I haven't yet read the regulations, but it occurs to me that if the summary of the regulations, as per thursday's Star Ledger, is near accurate, smoking has been banned in the entirety of Maplewood's "downtown". This is going to get interesting. TomR | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1148 Registered: 7-2004  |
This is like 1984. People get their freedom taken away while they smile about it. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 7258 Registered: 5-2001 |
... or get their freedom to enjoy a more pleasant and healthier environment restored.  | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7247 Registered: 5-2001  |
Speaking of having no freedom, I find the following things really annoying: I can't shoot people who annoy me. I can't take free merchandise from a store that charges too much. I can't go rip the Xmas lights off my neighbor's house in April. I can't go 90mph on 78 without risking a ticket. I can't park in front of fireplugs. I can't pick the tulips in the park to put in a vase on my mantle. I say that we all band together and go dump a bunch of latte into Newark Bay in protest. | ||
| Case Citizen Username: Case Post Number: 1362 Registered: 2-2005 |
No one is saying that you can't smoke... we're saying that we hate it when you smoke near us. If you need to do something that smells bad and people find offensive, go somewhere private and take care of it. Think of it like going to the bathroom. Of course, when you visit the bathroom you're REMOVING wastes from your body... and taking an opposite course of action while smoking - but you get the idea. | ||
| red Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 5320 Registered: 2-2003  |
Great idea greenetree, when to go? Speaking of xmas lights; this house on Valley (I think in Vauxhall not Maplewood) has had xmas lights dangling from the roof for FOUR YEARS. Every time I drive by I really want to just pull over and rip them down. The strand is so low it is hitting the ground... | ||
| Kibbegirl Citizen Username: Kibbegirl Post Number: 499 Registered: 5-2003 |
I don't smoke and never have, but feel for those who do. I think it really sucks for smokers to not have a designated area to smoke. This unfairly targets a huge segment of our population. Are we non-smokers supposed to inconvenience them into not smoking anymore? What happens when the gov't or the state wants to limit Ipod use on city streets? Regulate where we can talk on our cell phones? It's not that far fetched. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1574 Registered: 10-2003 |
I've been inconvenienced by smokers for 38 years. And I am inconvenienced by them every time I enter or exit the building where I work. True, it's not as bad as it used to be, having to actually work with smokers inside, or having lived with them as a child, but I shouldn't have to hold my breath when entering or exiting my building, or avoid going to places because I can't handle the smoke. I've got no problem with this. You might be on to something Kibbegirl - now that smoking is gone inappropriate cell phone usage might be the new social parriah. It'd be nice if we, as a society, could regulate our own volume so no one else has to set a regulation for us. But that won't happen. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 237 Registered: 2-2005  |
I predict an enormous, sudden influx of tobacco-deprived neophyte gamblers in Atlantic City casinos, which will increase the profitability of those establishments to such a degree that their owners, already among the wealthiest and most politically powerful elements in NJ, will finally succeed in making legalized gambling a reality in every corner of your state, allowing casinos to open in every hamlet, of such size and pernicious seductiveness as to dwarf all existing bars and restaurants in popularity. The resulting business war will, of course, be won by the gambling industry, which will eventually take over the liquor licenses of every tavern and eatery which they put out of operation, resulting in slot machines and sports betting -- as well as every other conceivable game of chance -- openly operating 24/7 in every venue in the Garden State... Oh, and, of course, smoking as well. Go in peace. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| ML Supporter Username: Ml1 Post Number: 2967 Registered: 5-2002  |
McCheese hit it on the head. First they take away smoking, and the next thing you know, the government will be tapping our phones. oh, wait a minute... | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 630 Registered: 7-2005  |
I'll file this one next to "It's illegal to not wear a seatbelt." and "Attempted suicide is a crime" If people want to die...let them...it's none of our business | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1149 Registered: 7-2004 |
I do not like the way some candles smell in bars and restaurants. I should not have to smell them! It is my right as a person who does not own a business to force those who do to stop the use of candles! How dare you tell me to suck it up or to leave! I'm telling big brother on you! Does this sound silly? This insane argument does sound strangely familiar. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 632 Registered: 7-2005 |
I don't like the music outside of bunny's...it should be shut off... | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7249 Registered: 5-2001 |
Ah, Glock. True. But you assume that there is no impact on others when people make dangerous personal choices. I agree that criminalizing suicide is silly; people who feel like choosing death is a better option need help. But people who die in accidents because they didn't wear a seatbelt or a motorcycle helmet leave behind families who suffer greatly. Those who don't die but end up with major medical bills and insufficient insurance or disabled drain public coffers. Do you have any idea how great the cost of smoking is to society? With limited funds, where do we spend the money? On the children who need a free vaccine program because their parents work but have no insurance? Or on the COPD patient with a 20-year smoking history who now can't work? Do you have any friends who've lost parents to lung cancer because they've smoked? A sibling who died without a seatbelt in a car accident? Some life experiences change your perspective. No decision is insular. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1577 Registered: 10-2003 |
No, Mayor, it's not familiar at all. You can blow out the votive candle on your table or ask for it to be removed and it is unlikely anyone will care. I have asked people to move their ciggarettes and gotten dirty looks, smoke blown in my face, lectured, cursed at, to name a few. If people (not smokers specifically, rather, the community in general) were more considerate we would be able to enjoy social compromises instead of mandated restrictions. Not being allowed to marry your same sex partner is a violation of a civil liberty. Being asked to not smoke in a public venue is merely a consideration of the people around you. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 1502 Registered: 3-2002 |
I cheer the new law. I've seen lung cancer close up, and applaud for the health of the waiters and bartenders. I'm married to someone allergic to cigarette smoke, and have been seriously inconvenienced by smoke in public places for many years. I can think of no other public habit which requires everyone around you wash their clothes and hair to remove your smell afterwards. I feel for the inconvenience on smokers, but I feel more for the inconvenience of everyone around them. Smoking is a smelly, addictive habit which can be deadly for both the smoker and those who habitually breath the by-products. I don't feel a need to protect its place in the public domain. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 633 Registered: 7-2005 |
Oh, greentree...who's problem is that? why spend so much to enforce seatbelts? If someone doesn't want to wear one...welll that's their decision and them and their family should accept the consequences. It's not like they don't know the consequences of smoking, not wearing a seatbelt...etc..and if no one in the family stops them...well then whos problem is that? Its not mine..and when Im a taxpayer i sure as hell dont want to have to pay for the costs to stop all of these suckers from doing stupid stuff | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1150 Registered: 7-2004 |
greenetree - Don't go into the cost of things because it may not work the way you see it in the end. Big tobacco has paid lots of money in taxes over the last few hundred years. Also, the tax on tobacco (what is it in NJ now, like $15 a pack) pays one hell of a lot of money to the state. People who may die early from tobacco related illnesses do not collect social security. Tobacco is a big industry and without it the government would stand to lose so much money that you would take a nice hit on your income tax. So perhaps the money issue is not the way to go. las - you have asked people to move or put out their cigarette? Why didn't you just move? If smoking bothers you so much why would you go and patronize a place that allows smoking? Why give your money to support a place that you don't agree with the policies? It would be like donating money to a cause you do not believe in. And as for blowing out the candle or moving it, that is exactly my point. You can move the candle, or I could move, but I don't need the state to come in with guns blazing and forcibly remove all the candles from ever business in NJ simply because I don't like them. And I agree with you that not allowing same sex marriage is a violation of civil liberties. It should be allowed. However some people in this country believe it to be immoral. And some people might say that by allowing this we are destroying the morals of the communities we live in. And many people view morality as being more important than health. Does that mean that these people should be allowed to have their way? Because they think that this is an important issue for society as a whole. They are just trying to save everyone the same way that the anti-smoking nazis are trying to save everyone. You can base the same argument for smoking on this issue as well. But that would be insane. Just like the smoking law is. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1578 Registered: 10-2003 |
If big tobacco can't override public opinion, maybe it's time to find a new issue. Good lord - we used to think marrying and sleeping with twelve year old girls was acceptable. Sometimes a society moves past things. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 634 Registered: 7-2005 |
in the words of Dave Chappelle " How Old is 15 really?" | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1152 Registered: 7-2004 |
Yes and sometime there are things, like freedom of choice, that a society should never move past. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7250 Registered: 5-2001 |
Damn, Glock. Where have you been? It never occurred to me or my brothers or her friends or her clients or, or, or to get my mom to stop smoking. I wasted all that time making peace with her lung cancer. And I'm not at all worried about my own risk from my exposure to her 2.5 pack a day habit for 20 years or my own youthful smoking. And I know that she doesn't feel bad at all about her decision to expose us to it, because she's said so many times "Hey, I got you through the obligatory first 18 years. You live any longer than that, it's gravy". Stop smoking programs only cost less than treatment of cancer, heart desease, emphysema, etc, etc. if those who get the diseases get absolutley no treatment whatsoever. Otherwise, the treatment costs much, much more. Same with AIDS for that matter. Why not just let people die? They chose cigarettes, unsafe sex, needles, whatever. Parents who pass on the HIV virus to their babies just need to accept the consequences of their decisions. Making my living as an epidemiologist and a medical outcomes researcher, I can assure everyone that smoking is much, much more costly than the programs to stop it. If you'd like, I can find an economic model to show you. | ||
| The Oracle of MOL Supporter Username: Oracle_of_mol Post Number: 238 Registered: 2-2005 |
Satan is a big fan of free will. It makes his job sooooo much easier... Go in peace. --The Oracle of MOL | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1154 Registered: 7-2004 |
As I recall God is also a big fan of free will. | ||
| Dave Supporter Username: Dave Post Number: 9224 Registered: 4-1997  |
God forces us to use free will. We have no say in the matter. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1155 Registered: 7-2004 |
No, you could always do God's will. Even if it goes against what you want to do. But then again, you would have to choose to do God's will over your own. And then you are back at the begining. If God were a robot, that paradox could possibly destroy him/her/it. | ||
| Monster© Supporter Username: Monster Post Number: 2796 Registered: 7-2002  |
I prefer to believe that there is not, and never was a god that had anything to do with us It's all us, all the time Some people are very good at manipulating others, and do so | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4689 Registered: 1-2004 |
The sad thing is smoking is legal, yet it is the hardest addiction to break. More so then Heroin. Even those addicted to pot can stop easier then those addicted to cigarettes. Unlike those who drink, one does not reek of an ashtray sitting by someone who drinks. I'll be glad when like alcohol, smoking won't be allowed in public. Heck, I'd even say go ahead and make pot legal, just don't smoke it in public either. Something else, there are already bills in the works to include the casinos in the smoking ban. I doubt this bill would have passed if the casinos were include in the original bill. Give it a year, and the smoking ban will be state wide. Something Las said that hit a nerve with me when it comes to inconsiderate smokers. I think it is very wrong when I go into Saint Barnabas or some of the other medical buildings for appointments, I have to walk through a bunch of inconsiderate smokers, who despite the signs clearing saying "No Smoking Allowed" stand there and smoke. Try pointing out the signs, and as Las said, you get cussed at. | ||
| spw784 Supporter Username: Spw784 Post Number: 880 Registered: 5-2001 |
JTA, the medical building where some of my doctors are have 1-2 " No smoking within 25 feet of building" signs posted above the main entrance, yet I often see staff taking their smoke breaks right below the signs! So patients need to walk through a cloud of smoke to get to the doctor's offices. | ||
| Mayor McCheese Supporter Username: Mayor_mccheese Post Number: 1156 Registered: 7-2004 |
spw - complaining about outdoors smoking! That's low. If I owned a bar I would put up a sign saying "No bitching about smoking allowed" | ||
| spw784 Supporter Username: Spw784 Post Number: 881 Registered: 5-2001 |
sorry, but when they are smoking under the sign that says "No smoking within 25 feet of building", and are creating a smoke curtain to those of us trying to enter the building, then, yes, I'm complaining. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7253 Registered: 5-2001 |
I worked for a company once that provided an enclosed smoking gazebo for employees. It was about 25 feet away from the door and heated in the winter. My current company is going completely campus-wide smoke free in 2007. It is a huge complex. You won't be allowed to smoke anywhere, inside or out. As much as I would like to think that everyone will quit, I envision longer breaks while people go sit in their cars and smoke. I don't think it should be allowed in doorways; it does stink and sends a very wrong message for a health care company. They are providing all sorts of free quit smoking tools. I do think that they should provide those tools and a place away from the doors to smoke. It's not fair to change fundamental rules after someone has been working for a company. It will be different for new people interviewing. They will have a choice to accept the job or not. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4692 Registered: 1-2004 |
McCheesey- We were talking about staff smoking right outside the door where it clearly says "NO SMOKING!" It is VERY wrong to forcing people who are sick to walk through the cloud of smoke left by smokers! Especially outside the door to a hospital or medical building. I've refused to allow techs, doctors, nurses etc who reek of smoke treat me. More then once I've tossed them out of the room. In the addiction field you can't even become a CADC if you smoke. | ||
| CFA Citizen Username: Cfa Post Number: 1620 Registered: 5-2001  |
"I've refused to allow techs, doctors, nurses etc who reek of smoke treat me. More then once I've tossed them out of the room." You're wacked out. That's right....don't get treated and remain sick because you don't want a smoker treating you. Now I know you're a little warped in the head. | ||
| Kibbegirl Citizen Username: Kibbegirl Post Number: 501 Registered: 5-2003 |
My mother began smoking when she was 16 years old and has since stopped a little over 10 years ago. When she began smoking, the gov't didn't fully disclose all the dangers of smoking. My mom smoked through both pregnancies and thought nothing of it, as I'm sure many women did back then. She could not stop on her own and went to the "Mad Russian" in Boston to help her kick her addiction -- it worked! Smoking is a terrible addiction and it does stink and it does cause disease. But I do believe many smokers, like my mom was, to be very conscious of their habit around others. My mother would go Lysol nuts before we came to visit and not smoke around me or the kids. I also would not deny a physician the right to treat me for my illness because I smelled Winston's on her lab coat. That's a personal discrimination and that's what frightens me about this whole not smoking war. | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1583 Registered: 10-2003 |
CFA, that was harsh. If you are not a smoker, the smell is offensive and can make you sick. Personally, I can't tolerate that smell, and choose not to be around it. I've asked people who have sat down next to me on the train to please move just as I have chosen all these years not to frequent establishments that allow smoking. This is not about rights, it's about consideration of others. It's not about the health of the smoker, it's about those who have to breath in the stench. |
