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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1387
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:12 am: | 
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For those of you unfamiliar with the term, a "gas and go" involves jumping into a conversation, saying something guaranteed to start a fight, and then leaving. In other words, you 'throw gas on the fire, then run'.
With that in mind, let me present the latest bulk email I just received:
Try This In Mexico
If you are ready for the adventure of a lifetime,
TRY THIS:
Enter Mexico illegally. Never mind immigration quotas, visas, international
law, or any of that nonsense.
Once there, demand that the local government provide free medical care for
you and your entire family.
Demand bilingual nurses and doctors.
Demand free bilingual local government forms, bulletins, etc.
Procreate abundantly.Deflect any criticism of this allegedly irresponsible
reproductive behavior with, "It is a cultural USA thing. You would not
understand, pal."
Keep your American identity strong. Fly Old Glory from your rooftop, or
proudly display it in your front window or on your car bumper.
Speak only English at home and in public and insist that your children do
likewise.
Demand classes on American culture in the Mexican school system.
Demand a local Mexican driver license. This will afford other legal rights
and will go far to legitimize your unauthorized, illegal presence in Mexico.
Drive around with no liability insurance and ignore local traffic laws.
Insist that local Mexican law enforcement teach English to all its officers.
Good luck! You'll be demanding for the rest of time or soon dead.
Because it will never happen. It will not happen in Mexico or any other
country in the world except right here in the United States, Land of the
naive and stupid, idiotic politically correct politicians, like Geo W Bush!!
If you agree, pass it on. If you don't, go ahead and try the above in
Mexico or Iran.
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Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 4090
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 10:23 am: |
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I would have deleted the e-mail with out reading it |
Mayor McCheese
Supporter
Username: Mayor_mccheese
Post Number: 1184
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:35 am: |
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I find this email enlightening. Finally, a breath of fresh air on this message board. |
Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 4091
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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It's not enlightening to me. These type of e-mails typically are written to appeal to a 11 or 12 year olds thought process, where everything is black or white. This issue isn't that simple and I suspect the solution is somewhere in the middle. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 702
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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My friend from California gave me a short passage he found (Never been to cali...sort of like a pen pal...oh silly online gaming)
If I break into a house, I'm a felon, right?
Break into this country, and you are no better.
"If any of us broke into a house because we needed money to feed our families, do you think we would be let go? Or better yet, would you be pardoned AND given a reward? Of course not, you broke the law, and the law does not care about the reasons why you did it, you pay the price for breaking the law. PERIOD." |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13761
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 11:48 am: |
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Glock, I expect that the employers of illegal aliens feel the wages they paid was money well spent. I don't see an analogy to stealing.
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joel dranove
Citizen
Username: Jdranove
Post Number: 388
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:40 pm: |
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Well, would you please pay my tax burden/share of expenses, because I don't think I should support illegals.
Do you?
jd |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13767
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:48 pm: |
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Tough question. Sometimes I feel no, sometimes I feel yes. Many of us are descendents of people who started out in this country as illegals. They became legal and they contributed duly to society.
One thing I will never buy, but keeps popping up, is the attitude that previous waves of immigrants were OK but the present one is not.
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Brett
Citizen
Username: Bmalibashksa
Post Number: 2274
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:50 pm: |
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So Tom you also must think it's ok to have kids from Irvington and Newark going to SO/M schools. All they are trying to do is better themselves. |
Soda
Supporter
Username: Soda
Post Number: 3779
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:51 pm: |
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I don't think one should defend thugs, but somebody has to... (purely hypothetical paraphrasing, not at all intended to refer to any white male, living or dead)
Gotta go now. The lawnmower guy didn't understand me when I told him it's too early to start mowing, so now he's running a riding mower all over my newly-seeded lawn...
-s.
BTW: Those "Gardening" time-outs are tough. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13769
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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Brett, your extrapolation of my view is incorrect. I do not think it's OK to cross school district lines.
I feel you must pay the price to better yourself. I.e. it should not be at others' expense. That's not true betterment.
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1388
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 2:43 pm: |
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I'm confused - how would parkbench know to delete the email if he (or she) didn't read it first?
And I wonder about the 'old' immigrants vs. the 'new' immigrants. My family came over from both England and Ireland. Granted, the English grandparents didn't have any language issues... but I don't see a lot of bilingual English and Gaelic signs in NYC - do you? I'm guessing the same thing happened with the Italian immigrants... they adopted a country along with its language and (some) customs. And THIS was a time when America desperately needed immigration to grow and prosper.
What has changed?
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Parkbench87
Citizen
Username: Parkbench87
Post Number: 4092
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
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"Well, would you please pay my tax burden/share of expenses, because I don't think I should support illegals."
In theory you or I shouldn't support illegals. We also shouldn't support farming subsidies, pork belly projects and depending on ones political persuasion the assinine priorities of a particular president. Hell some people feel like they shouldn't have to pay taxes. But you know the drill any one person doesn't get to decide.
I've never read an unsolicited bulk e-mail that provided me with enlightenment. They usually appeal to our basest instincts. This e-mail is no exception. I don't believe in carte blanche for illegal immigrants but I also don't believe we can keep everyone who wants to come in from Mexico out. And why do we want to compare ourselves to Mexico or Iran? Is that our measuirng stick? |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 811
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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I kind of liked that email - it gets straight to the point.
Those who say 'its not that simple' are missing the point - it is that simple.
Do we have immigration laws and procedures in this country, or not? If so, enforce them. If not, open the borders, and get ready to be more overrun than we already are. But please stop this wild hypocrisy from both sides of the aisle about legalizing illegal aliens. In all this balderdash coming from the executive and legislative branches of government, no one has made any effort to secure the border.
What is worse, illegal immigration is a direct tax on those Americans at the bottom of the economic scale. They are the ones who lose their jobs to illegals.
Perhaps those on this message board who advocate an amnesty should consider that. . . |
GOP Man
Citizen
Username: Headsup
Post Number: 322
Registered: 5-2005
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:28 pm: |
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as an entrepreneur who owns my own apparel company, I find myself really torn on this issue. frankly, I hate the idea that our culture is being eroded by these people who don't speak English, and don't respect our traditions and most importantly our flag. but on the other hand, I like the cheap materials I get from my suppliers who are paying Guatemalans $3 an hour to sew t-shirts. so basically I hope the status quo continues because I can deal with the culture issues as long as I can maximize profits for my business. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 812
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:30 pm: |
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As I was saying, balderdash. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13774
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:40 pm: |
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It's true that illegal immigrants are taking jobs away from legal aliens and citizens at the bottom of the economy. This is not a good thing. But lots of business relies on this system. I'm talking both big and small business. Those who can change the system don't choose to do so.
I agree that we accomodate Spanish too much. I understand it but disagree with it. The reason this is happening now is that immigration comes from many countries that happen to speak the same language. It wasn't this way in earlier waves of immigration. The many accomodations we are making are bad for both native born Americans and immigrants.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 815
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:49 pm: |
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Agreed. The cultural/language thing scares me. One of our biggest strengths in the U.S. is our cultural and liguistic unity. Fray or destroy that, and we have a very serious problem.
But on the issue of business, I really wonder if the net benefit conferred by low wage illegals is not completely outweighed by the invisible costs the illegals impose on us all - from higher health care premiums to cover their uninsured hospitalizations, to higher taxes to educate their young. In spanish. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13775
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:52 pm: |
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Actually, the cost of having tons of low skilled illegals probably doesn't outweigh the benefits. Even Paul Krugman, of all people, spent a column showing this.
But I think individuals gain from the status quo, while the society loses in the aggregate. That's why no one addresses it. It's a cynical outlook, but I think it's realistic.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 817
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 3:53 pm: |
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Cynical, yes, but I am afraid you are quite right. |
upondaroof
Citizen
Username: Upondaroof
Post Number: 627
Registered: 4-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, April 20, 2006 - 4:26 pm: |
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This showed up in my mail box this AM.
">
>Amen to this! 99 years later. What a visionary that Teddy R.
>
>
>
> Theodore Roosevelt's ideas on Immigrants and being an AMERICAN in 1907.
>
>
>"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
>
>Theodore Roosevelt 1907
>
>Pass This On!!!!" |
LilLB
Citizen
Username: Lillb
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 10-2002
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 9:03 am: |
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I went to snopes to check out the Roosevelt quote, and it is indeed true. It's interesting to read the whole thing actually. Thought I'd post it.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/troosevelt.asp |
chroma
Citizen
Username: Chroma
Post Number: 31
Registered: 3-2005
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 3:16 pm: |
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My paternal grandparents came to this country around the time that Roosevelt wrote those passages. My dad's experience as the son of immigrants and factory workers in New York makes me agree with Roosevelt, and wonder about the well intentioned efforts of those who have put in place a bilingual system for Hispanics. I worry that it holds immigrants back. My dad was required to learn English from the moment he set foot into public school. (Not only that, but his teacher for the first few years drilled the kids in accent reduction: in fact, she required a kind of Middle America pronunciation: no "Noo Yowk" allowed.) I suspect that his first generation success (he went on to earn a B.S and M.S. in engineering, and retired after a gratifying forty year career)was in part because he had to master the language right away. He said that it was not easy, but that he understood that it was absolutely necessary.
My other thought on this issue has to do with the jobs that are usually mentioned: the ones that people describe as "the ones Americans won't do", and then "construction" is often listed. Since when is constuction something that Americans don't want to do? When I was growing up, construction always paid reasonably well, so if now those jobs are being filled by illegal immigrants, there is likely downward pressure on those wages.
However, having said the former, I have to add that I believe that each wave of immigration has made America a stronger, culturally richer, more vibrant country. I just think that we have to be wise about how those of us who are here welcome and manage those of us who want to be Americans. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13805
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Friday, April 21, 2006 - 3:23 pm: |
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chroma, I'm sure your father didn't immigrate around 1907, so you must be talking about Franklin Roosevelt, not Teddy Roosevelt. 
I do think you have to buy into a culture if you want to be a part of it. That includes the language. But I don't agree that you have to renounce your heritage. This is the part of the Teddy Roosevelt that our current times would dispense with.
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