| Author |
Message |
    
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14018
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:16 pm: | 
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I admit I was wrong. I also have a point. My point is that stopping should be an early impulse. You can and should do it before checking any mirrors. You have to check mirrors and pathways ahead and to the sides before you swerve, which is why you can brake more quickly than you can swerve.
I know we were talking about animals. I brought up kids because I want to point out that there are cases when braking is the best thing to do, regardless of what you fear behind you.
I conceded your point. Do you see mine?
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2017
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:20 pm: |
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your point has nothing to do with this thread is is therefore of no importance here. i will be happy to discuss your attempt to save face in another thread. toodles.
new york state driving school manual:
" If a small animal gets in your way and it's too late to brake, it may be better to hit it than to swerve out of the way and, maybe, cause a bigger accident." |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2018
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:21 pm: |
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"In Arroyo Grande on July 20, Andre Quintanar Sr., 19, was charged with vehicular manslaughter after he swerved to avoid a small animal and was blindsided by another vehicle. Jessica Jacome, 18; Manuel Medina, 19; and Gabriel Gonzalez, 20; lost their lives." |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2019
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:23 pm: |
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city of pheonix driving manual:
"remember that it is better to hit a small animal (dog, cat, rabbit) than to risk losing control of the vehicle." |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2020
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:26 pm: |
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car safety site:
"Do not try to swerve around an animal! You could lose control of your vehicle and hit a tree or another vehicle - both potentially much worse than hitting a animal. If you swerve, there's also a chance that the animal will panic and run into your path." |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 609
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:49 pm: |
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I'm not totally sure....but methinks Libby is trying to make a point, Tom. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2023
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
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just trying to separate opinion from fact. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14019
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 10:26 pm: |
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I appreciate the facts, even after I conceded. My opinion has a point, too. We'd be nowhere without opinions. I think.
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The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2027
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 1:23 am: |
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i love opinions, just not when they are presented as fact.
here is an example of stating opinion as fact:
"You have a few things to learn about driving, Glock. ........ Hitting the brakes is the normal proper response to any obstacle. " |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14023
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 7:33 am: |
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I stand corrected. I've said that. What else do you think should I say now?
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Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 611
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 8:27 am: |
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C'mon Libby, you're beating a dead horse...errr...ummm..duck... |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11382
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 9:24 am: |
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Causing an accident to avoid a child in the road and a doing the same to avoid a duck are not, repeat not morally equivalent, as much as some in MW feel they are.
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7496
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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Unless there was a child in the middle of the road feeding the duck, I don't think that this was Ess' point.
This thread, and the callousness, are just so sad. IMHO, anyone who thinks that it is OK to hit any living thing, as long as they follow their moral algorithm, is not responsible enough to have a license. There is "unavoidable" and there is "lousy driving".
I was coming around a corner on Forest the other day. I take this corner slowly, but I see people using it for NASCAR practice all the time. There are at least 10 kids on the block under the age of 8, and being next to the park, it is a high child-traffic area.
At any rate, as I turned the corner, a small dog broke off his leash and ran in front of my car, barking at a dog being walked on the other side. I did not hit the dog, because I was going slowly enough to stop. Is it really all that difficult to admit that we need to pay more attention and drive more carefully? |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 613
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
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Greenie, I agree people should drive more carefully. However, animals often dart out in front of your car without allowing you time to react. Squirrels are the worst because the don't just run across the street at the same speed which might help you time your avoidance. Rather, they often pause halfway through which can confuse drivers even more! When it is too dangerous to brake or swerve, I try to drive over them without running over them with the tires. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 811
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:48 am: |
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greenie...so do you propose going 10mph on 24 west to avoid hitting racoons and other small animals? should i slam the breaks on the turnpike to avoid other small creatures? |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7501
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 10:55 am: |
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That isn't even worth addressing. At some point you will outgrow your need to debate absolutely every little issue or suggestion posed. Your contributions (and those of some others) on this thread have been a bit sophmoric.
Your political posts are intelligent and well-articulated. I think that I will just read those. |
ffof
Citizen
Username: Ffof
Post Number: 4684
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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I aim for squirrels. Ten points ya know. |
blackcat
Citizen
Username: Blackcat
Post Number: 582
Registered: 6-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 11:45 am: |
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I wouldn't use an army driving manual as a basis on how to drive on streets here. Just slow down people. It's not hard. Look where you're going. Stop talking-to people in the car, on the phone-or even yourself! |
mtierney
Citizen
Username: Mtierney
Post Number: 931
Registered: 3-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 12:27 pm: |
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I knew these ducks! The couple (they do look all alike) have returned to the Park Road area for a number of years, enjoying the pools in the area. Taking an occasional swim in the early morning. Just last week, I watched them, always very close together.
 |
mem
Citizen
Username: Mem
Post Number: 6121
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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Those ducks were delicious! |
combustion
Citizen
Username: Spontaneous
Post Number: 11
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 3:34 pm: |
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I think the point about ducks vs. children wasn't that it's okay to hit one and not the other, but that when you go tearing down a street at breakneck speed you don't know WHAT will end up in front of you. You should be prepared to stop for ANYTHING in front of you. Stop first, figure out what you avoided killing second. Glock made a comment about Rte 24. I once saw a person under the influence try to cross 280 in East Orange on foot. She didn't make it very far before she was stuck. We ended up setting out every flare in my trunk and using our car to shield her from oncoming traffic until the ambulance and police could arrive. You never know where or when some idiot may dart out in front of your car. Legally you may be cleared, but if you hit a pedestrian or, God forbid, a small child loose from their mother, you will have to live with that for the rest of your life. |
Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11387
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 3:54 pm: |
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There seems to be an assumption that the driver who hit the duck was speeding. Did anybody see the accident?
Seriously, I don't run around looking for wildlife to runover. I think I have terminated one squirrel in over 40 years of driving. However, if the choice is between having a head on collision with a vehicle coming the other way or hitting an animal I am going to hit the animal. If a human being darts out in front of the car I will find out if airbags really work or not.
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Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 812
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 4:01 pm: |
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Exactly what I said in my earlier posts, Bob. But no one is listening : | |
SO Ref
Citizen
Username: So_refugee
Post Number: 1754
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 5:38 pm: |
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You never know. The duck may have been battling thoughts of suicide and, finally, at the end of his rope, stepped in front of an oncoming car. Tragic...yet not the fault of the driver. |
Bajou
Citizen
Username: Bajou
Post Number: 138
Registered: 2-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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Mem .... I am horrified at your last post...NOT
You know, MEM did eat them ... MEM even invited some friends over to partake in a delicious treat.
And we fools savoured each morsel not realizing we were feasting on roadkill which was loved by the neighborhood before it met it's fate.
I aquackagize...I didn't know.
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7514
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 2, 2006 - 6:23 pm: |
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Don't kid yourself. Mem just told you it was roadkill. Check her tires. |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 615
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 8:02 am: |
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While on the platform this morning, a few of us witnessed a duck get run over by a train. It was waddling down the track and couldn't get out of the way. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 816
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 11:08 am: |
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I suppose the train conductor should've slammed the breaks to try and save it right? Or that he should've been paying more attention?
pffft
another one bites the dust |
The Notorious S.L.K.
Citizen
Username: Scrotisloknows
Post Number: 1363
Registered: 10-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 12:33 pm: |
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Glock-
We finally agree on something...did you feel the earth tremor? 
Seriously, lets move on folks. Ok so a couple of ducks got taken out. They are cute and it is sad, but geez, 70 posts on the subject?
How much speed do you actually need to run over a duck anyways?
-SLK |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 683
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 1:00 pm: |
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mr. big poppa, the duck on the tracks right before the 7:01 came in? |
Mr. Big Poppa
Citizen
Username: Big_poppa
Post Number: 619
Registered: 7-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 1:45 pm: |
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That's the one. Poor guy. Train should have swerved! |
Oldstone
Citizen
Username: Rogers4317
Post Number: 684
Registered: 6-2004
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 - 1:53 pm: |
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ohhh geez, i pointed out the duck to my commuting sidekick joking that the duck was trying to commit suicide...fully believeing it would fly out of the way if a train came. |
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