| Author | Message | ||
     las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1676 Registered: 10-2003 |
Went to St. James Gate for the third time since the smoking ban. Didn't see a single smoker hovering outside, around the corner, across the street. Parked on Highland last night, walked past Cent' Anni twice, not a single smoker on Highland. Is it possible there weren't that many smokers to begin with? Is it possible nobody cares? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2677 Registered: 9-2003  |
Personally, we've just decided not to go out for now. Never did like the Gate (too crowded, service too slow). I'm sure we'll eventually go to Cent'Anni, and duck outside as needed. With warm weather upon us, I suspect a number of folks who prefer to have a cigarette or two or three with their drinks and dinner will choose instead to grill at home, on their lovely patios, accompanied by whomever doesn't mind their habit. The money we would've spent in the restaurants will instead go to King's or Whole Foods for some high end grillables, and to the liquor store for some good wine. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13896 Registered: 1-2003  |
If you went to Cent'anni and forewent (is that a word?) smoking during dinner, that's another way to save money. | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 262 Registered: 2-2003 |
Local restaurants that previously were full of tobacco have been enjoying the boost to revenue that my family has been providing...and judging from the occupancy rate of tables, other families have been doing the same more frequently since April 15. Two weeks is a small sample size, but don't be surprised if the net effect is a wash, similar to the findings of this study in El Paso. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2678 Registered: 9-2003 |
Too right, but that is not my goal when going to Cent'anni. And, Cent'anni is so my favorite place that I will alter my (for the time being) preferences to go there. I have, by the way, no problem with the regulation. If the majority prefers that this be so, it's fine. I do think clubs/cigar bars or similar should be allowed to do business as they see fit. I nearly didn't post anything, because I know the glee with which some want to jump on anyone who smokes. But, I thought I would offer one theory as to where some middle aged home owning smokers had gone. Kinda like where movie theatre goers went when the price got too high, or the fellow patrons too rambunctuous. Cocooning!! | ||
| Stuart0628 Citizen Username: Stuart0628 Post Number: 263 Registered: 2-2003 |
Tom, my Scrabble dictionary agrees that forewent is a word :-) | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1677 Registered: 10-2003 |
For clarity: I only ask because whenever I've been in St. James, I noticed there was usually one smoker at a time, and when that person lit up the whole restaurant smelled. Now that I'm not passing smokers on the street I wonder if there were really that many smokers to begin with? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2680 Registered: 9-2003 |
Couldn't say. I usually see about 6-8 at least casual smokers at the train station. Some I know to be "only when commuting and not near my kids or in restaurants" smokers. Most smokers tend to want to smoke while drinking. The little gaggles of guys (the aging frat boy crowd) who smoke probably went somewhere where it was easier to step outside without incurring wrath. The really young folk, who knows. People like me went home (or, like I said, never went their much to begin with). | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7433 Registered: 5-2001  |
None of the local restaurants get any of our money during grilling season. Smoke or no smoke.  Las, I believe that the numbers of people who smoke have dropped dramatically over the past few years. I think that bars & restaurants were places that adults could go to socialize and smoke. The one change I noticed is that even adults who smoke don't do it around their kids. The message has gotten thru about second hand smoke. When I was growing up, my parents (and most of their friends) not only smoked in the house but had bowls of cigarettes and ashtrays all over the house. My brother took all the old ashtrays that my mom had & sent them to be refinished. Turns out that they are the most beautiful copper bowls. I also now realize that many of the cigarette bowls are pretty pieces of milk glass or Limoges. Weird, huh? | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2681 Registered: 9-2003 |
Same in my home growing up, greenetree. Only diff is that we didn't have any nice ashtrays! Pretty much agree on the behavioral angle. In Maplewood, I know about 7 fathers who smoke (at the train station, when driving alone, when working in the back yard), 3 mothers, 2 mothers who have a cig or two with drinks/adults. All over 40. Most younger, educated, etc. I don't tend to know and probably don't smoke. That set benefited from the messaging/education when growing up and either quit or never started. | ||
| John Citizen Username: Jdm Post Number: 46 Registered: 3-2006 |
Forgo > forwent. | ||
| mrmaplewood Citizen Username: Mrmaplewood Post Number: 333 Registered: 5-2001 |
Strange. Greentree says that people go the bar to smoke and socialize. I have always felt that smoking is an anti-social behavior. It makes me upset and angry. I suspect that many of the missing reataurant/bar smokers may have sensed this attitude in the new law: That they are unwanted. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7443 Registered: 5-2001 |
Must we demonize smokers? The smoking is unwanted; not the people. | ||
| mrmaplewood Citizen Username: Mrmaplewood Post Number: 335 Registered: 5-2001 |
My feeling is that smoking is anti-social. I didn't say people. | ||
| Glock 17 Citizen Username: Glock17 Post Number: 736 Registered: 7-2005  |
You said that smokers are unwanted. Frankly I don't care. Don't speak for the entire population. Next why don't we stop people from driving SUV's? The heavy gas usage and emissions are killing me everywhere i go! I dont even have to go to a bar or restaurant | ||
| Joe Citizen Username: Gonets Post Number: 1219 Registered: 2-2004 |
I was in the Gate last night and was outragednot by the lack of smokers but by the lack of the Devils game on the TV. For crying out loud nobody needs to see Yankees game in April! | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 102 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi Las: Well I have been out and you are right there barely are any smokers standing outside. Two reasons: 1. As Cynical has stated ..lots of private parties..been invited to a whole bunch already. 2. Smokers are just not bothering to go out right now and the few that do have one or two drinks and then go home. Ask any bar and they will tell you they feel it. CentAnni's which is my favorite bar in the whole world did not see all the regulars they normally do. I did go out on Tuesday and did sneak out to smoke. So did my three (smoking) friends which were out with me. Later we stopped at the pub and there were always 5-8 people out there. Just wondering though...the state sells the cigs, the state taxes the cigs, the state forbids the consumption of the cigs but the state still SELLS the cigs??? And if the goal is to reduce smoking why didn't they start in the fall when people are not so willing to step outside to sneak a smoke or forgo the bars/restaurants alltogether and have a backyard party... Why not allow a bar to make the choice of being a smoking or a non-smoking establishment and give the non-smoking ones a taxbreak. That would have ruffled less feathers and would have broken less small bar backs. In case you haven't guessed...I smoke, I love it and I do know it's bad for me. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2685 Registered: 9-2003 |
NJ government is feral and not particularly logical, Bajou. Plus, there'd need to be a plan to replace (short term) the loss of revenue from sin tax. As many point out, in the long term, assuming smoking is erradicated, the sin tax loss would be off set by reduction in health care expenses. Long term. Lord willing and the creek don't rise. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4814 Registered: 1-2004  |
Hopefully the next generation of kids won't start smoking. I know I've been to several places I would have tried to avoid in the past because of the smoke. They were all packed, It was great! I do feel bad for smokers our parents age though they started smoker before the truth about nicotine being highly addictive came out. We have to remember upuntil the past 15 or so years smoking was acceptable. Leading men in movies smoked, women smoked. We saw it all over. Now that it's less acceptable you see less people smoking in movies and on TV. This could be one of the reasons so manyy smokers have a hard time grasping how addicting nicotine is. | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3027 Registered: 9-2002  |
I think smokers know exactly how addictive nicotine is. Otherwise they would quit. I did notice quite a few families, including ours, at the Gate early on Saturday night. We were a bit disappointed by the food and service (except for my fish & chips, yum!) but hubster loved being able to have a beer with dinner. I'm going to Disney next week with my mom & sister-in-law who both smoke. I know a lot of Disney has become non-smoking...I hope they find places to smoke where they won't get dirty looks! | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7448 Registered: 5-2001 |
They know. They either aren't in a position to quit right now or know the risks and are willing to take them. | ||
| Just The Aunt Supporter Username: Auntof13 Post Number: 4815 Registered: 1-2004 |
Wendy and Greenie- It isn't that easy. It's harder to break the nicotine addiction then heroin. Alcohol is legal; but it's use is restricted. Why is it such a big deal smoking now is? I do think though it's not fair the casinos aren't included. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2956 Registered: 5-2004  |
Wendyn, I believe ALL of Disney is smoke free. Not just Disneyworld, but all the properties. | ||
| Brett Citizen Username: Bmalibashksa Post Number: 2293 Registered: 7-2003 |
Walt Disney World Smoking Areas Designated Smoking Locations MAGIC KINGDOM Main Street, U.S.A. The corner of Tony's Town Square Restaurant Waterside utdoor tables at the Plaza Pavilion Restaurant Tomorrowland Planter across from the exit of Carousel of Progress Between exit of Speedway and Geiger's Counter Mickey’s Toontown Fair Benches along back exit of Mickey’s Toontown Fair Train Station Fantasyland Just to the left of the back entrance to Cinderella's Royal Castle. Liberty Square Behind Ye Olde Christmas Shoppe Frontierland Exterior seating area of Pecos Bill’s Café, next to Frontierland Fries Near the exit to Big Thunder Mountain Railroad Adventureland To the left of Pirates of the Caribbean queue Between Bwana Bob's and Swiss Family Treehouse (opposite the Aloha Isle) Ticket and Transportation Center Former tour guide garden on west-end of mall near the Ferryboat area Epcot: Main Entrance Outside the turnstiles by the restrooms on the right Inside the turnstiles by the large planters on the right of Leave a Legacy. Spaceship Earth Outside the restrooms next to Gateway Gifts Innoventions Plaza Right side of MouseGear Entrance Future World West Alcove area in front of Coral Reef entrance Alcove area, near the pond, between The Living Seas and The Land Alcove area between The Land and the Journey Into Imagination pavilion Future World East Test Track exit area between the planter and the attraction Grassy area between Wonders of Life and Mission: SPACE Between Innoventions East exit and the Universe of Energy Transition area between World Showcase and Future World Left side of main walkway to World Showcase World Showcase Plaza Behind the large planters across from both Friendship docks China The patio area to the right of the Temple of Heaven (Reflections of China) Germany Outside and to the left of the Glas und Porzellan (Goebel) merchandise shop Italy The planter to the right of the Enoteca Castello (candy) merchandise shop and facing the American Adventure American Adventure The benches along the brick wall to the right of Heritage Manor Gifts Morocco The benches near the planters between Morocco and Japan France Benches next to the drinking fountain by the International Gateway canal International Gateway Benches inside the turnstiles on the right United Kingdom Benches in the Brittania Square Canada The benches between the Garden entrance and the Refreshment Port on the lagoon side Disney-MGM Studios Sunset Boulevard Outside the entrance to Sweet Spells Behind Hollywood Scoops Near the Tower of Terror exit Hollywood Boulevard Before entering gates to Animation Courtyard and left of the Brown Derby Fantasmic! At the back of the theater Echo Lake Alongside Echo Lake, in front of Hollywood & Vine Commissary Lane Behind the restrooms across from Star Tours Near the Great Movie Ride exit Al's Toy Barn Between Mama Melrose’s Ristorante Italiano and Al's Toy Barn Indiana Jones Spectacular Between the Indy entrance and Dinosaur Gertie's AFI Showcase Outside the entrance on Washington Square Mickey Avenue Area across from the Backlot Tour entrance Disney’s Animal Kingdom Theme Park: Camp Minnie-Mickey Near the restrooms at the end of the pathway to Festival of the Lion King. Discovery Island At the end of the DinoLand bridge beside Flame Tree Barbeque DinoLand U.S.A. Restaurantosaurus - outside porch Chester & Hester’s Dinosaur Treasures - mural courtyard Africa Behind Dawa Bar Asia Behind Drinkwallah To the left of the restrooms on the Expedition Everest Bridge Between Asia & Africa Past Tamu Tamu resfreshments on the upper pathway Rafiki's Planet Watch By train station entrance On benches near area gate close to Affection Section Disney Cruise Line Ships Staterooms are non-smoking Guest smoking is permitted in the following designated locations on Disney Cruise Line ships: Rockin' Bar D and Wavebands-- Non-Smoking Diversions - Non-Smoking before 9:00pm and for family events Sessions and Cadillac Lounge-- smoking permitted at the bar and in the back third of the club Public outdoor decks-- smoking permitted (ashtrays available) except around Mickey's Pool Private verandahs-- smoking permitted (ashtrays available) Typhoon Lagoon Water Park Getaway Glenn- Just behind the Happy Landings Ice cream shop at the picnic area. Let's Go Slurpin'- Outside the full service bar located on the main beach. Out of the way Cay- Near beach area on the right side of the park entrance. Blizzard Beach Water Park Across fromLottawatta Lodge Off the corner of Avalunch and at the sandy area across from the restrooms Two areas near thePolar Pub Disney's Wide World of Sports "fourth corner of the square" formed by the All Star Cafe, the Fieldhouse, the Baseball stadium and the smoking permitted section Sidewalk by the men's restroom between Sports field B and the Track Tennis complex on the sidewalk leading to the east practice courts Water fountain between the NFLX restrooms. the track and the Softball quad Baseball quad restroom area Ad hoc locales depending on the day's venue | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3029 Registered: 9-2002 |
Actually we are staying offsite, so that isn't an issue. I think all of the hotels except the 5 timeshare resorts are smoke-free though. I thought you could smoke at isolated spots at each park. Hmm, better look into that before mom has a lack of nicotine induced panic attack. JTA, that is the point. It isn't easy to quit. Therefore smokers know nicotine is highly addictive. It is non-smokers (or really never-smokers) who don't know how addictive it is and how hard it is to quit. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2957 Registered: 5-2004 |
I stand corrected. Thanks, Brett. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2958 Registered: 5-2004 |
Wendyn, you mean quitting isn't simply a matter of will power? I thought anyone who couldn't quit was just too weak...  | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3030 Registered: 9-2002 |
Awesome Brett, thanks. I'll print it out for the folks. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2687 Registered: 9-2003 |
Yep, we're weak, ignorant, immoral, poor specimens of human beings. Some of us recycle, though. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2959 Registered: 5-2004 |
Cynical, what does any of that have to do with smoking? That could describe me just as well...  | ||
| Wendyn Supporter Username: Wendyn Post Number: 3031 Registered: 9-2002 |
No no cynicalgirl, you are just like the people on tv! Oh, wait... | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 106 Registered: 2-2006 |
To all the little smoke engines who think they could.....(keep smoking) I for one am well aware of the addictive nature and that smoking is unhealthy and I do not for one second believe that a true smoker doesn't at least once a day think about quitting. I know I have to quit too but my problem is bigger now. See I am one of these people that do not do well with being forced and restricted. But may I put out two questions to you and see what y'all think: I think I can make a statement we will all agree on: The number of smokers have gone down from the 1950's to now.. So answer me this: Why have the number of cancer, heart attack, heart decease victims all drastically risen instead of ebbed out or even dropped equally to the reduction in smokers and exposure to second hand smoke? Maybe cigs (which are not healthy and we smokers all know that) are not the root to all medical evil. Maybe we need to ask ourselves and our doctors what really is the cause..... And this: Why are most countries with the longest live expectancy also know for their consumption of cigs and alcohol?? Well I will mull this over over a parliament.. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 13907 Registered: 1-2003 |
1. Our diets are worsening. Our stress levels might be rising. Our exposure to toxins from manufacturing might be rising. 2. Countries where people can afford alcohol and cigarettes are also countries with better health care. We see doctors for maladies other people haven't heard of, and that's largely a good thing. I would guess that some people in third world countries rarely see doctors and some never do. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7450 Registered: 5-2001 |
Baj, Baj, Baj. Well, cancer is up because many cancers have a 20-40 year exposure period, which is why so many people in their 60s are now being diagnosed with lung cancer. CVD (that's cardiovascular disease) is up because so are we; our caloric intake has more than doubled since the 1950s, we pretty much inject saturated fat, we don't exercise, we drive everywhere, we sit in front of computers on beautiful days. Hell, we don't even get up to change the channel. There is a childhood obesity epidemic and, as far as I know, most of these kids aren't smoking. If you calculate ratios instead of raw numbers, I'm thinking that you will find that those "other countries" don't have much longer expectancy than we do. And, you will also find, especially in European countries, that they exercise more and eat less. So, yes, there is less heart disease. Risks are multiplicative. It's your choice to smoke, but I know someone very well who spent the last 10-15 years insisting tht smoking does not cause cancer, while her children begged her to quit so that she could see her grandchildren grow up. She'll be lucky if she sees her next birthday. So, exercise your free will. But don't kid yourself. And I must say that I cannot believe that you'd put yourself at risk over a Parliament???? Good Lord, those things are like air. At least have a Marlboro. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2960 Registered: 5-2004 |
Country Men Women Avg 1 Andorra 80.56 86.56 83.46 2 Macau S.A.R. 78.80 84.55 81.60 3 San Marino 77.57 85.02 81.14 4 Japan 77.51 84.05 80.70 5 Singapore 77.10 83.23 80.05 6 Australia 76.90 82.74 79.75 7 Guernsey 76.65 82.75 79.65 8 Switzerland 76.73 82.63 79.60 9 Sweden 76.95 82.37 79.58 10 Hong Kong S.A.R. 76.85 82.41 79.54 11 Canada 76.02 83.00 79.43 12 Iceland 77.19 81.77 79.39 13 Italy 75.85 82.41 79.03 14 Gibraltar 76.09 81.96 78.95 15 Cayman Islands 76.10 81.27 78.88 16 Monaco 74.88 83.00 78.84 17 Liechtenstein 75.16 82.47 78.81 18 Spain 75.32 82.49 78.79 19 France 74.85 82.89 78.76 20 Norway 75.73 81.77 78.65 Surprising to see France, in particular, on that list. But I'd guess the socialized health care systems are more of a reflection of life expectancy than smoking or drinking habits. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2961 Registered: 5-2004 |
Sorry... those are life expectancies. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 108 Registered: 2-2006 |
hey greeny: did I not just recently read the those darn greenies are not digestable.. I know you are right and I know that your facts are right but people need to know that the person sitting next to them at the bar having a couple of cigarettes is not likely what's going to kill them. It's the two bacon burgers with fries and the fact that he/she didn't even walk to the bar. Hey I like my Parliaments (those poor innocent skinny little things 20 packed in a Pack). | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7453 Registered: 5-2001 |
Not much different than here. Although, if I were a man looking to marry a wealthy widow, I'd head to France or Monaco. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 2962 Registered: 5-2004 |
All contributory factors... A smoker who eats and exercises the same as a non-smoker is still likely to die sooner and be less healthy. Just as someone who eats lardburgers is more likely to die younger than someone who does not, all other things being equal. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7454 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, as I said to my mother about a year ago: I can't believe you've spent the last 20 years having a tube shoved up your ••• and getting regular mammograms but refused to quit smoking. Enjoy your salad. |
