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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 142
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:46 am: | 
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I have read about refurbishing public parks and the Court House in Newark and seen the smiling picture of the County Executive running for re-election standing next to Newark Mayor Sharpe James.
But, uh, I am concerned about the TAXES, actually.
So what has Essex County done for us lately? Is there a plan? What is it? Who has it? Where are we going with the Essex County portion of our taxes?
Are we going to insure all Essex County communities are being re-val'ed or re-assessed like Maplewood, Millburn, and South Orange? What's up?
Please advise.
(MSH's portion of the tax has in fact declined for the past 2 years, but for how long?) |
Todd Manana
Citizen
Username: T_manana
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 3:47 pm: |
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Why don't you ask the county? Why should we do the work for you? |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 775
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:41 pm: |
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Well I think they fixed those potholes on the JFK parkway coming back from the mall (not that it matters im taking 24 from now on...both ways)
Those were dangerous! |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13942
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 4:45 pm: |
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The first things that come to mind first are parks, roads, and courts.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 146
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 5:17 pm: |
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Okay, and I say, so what?
Is that all there is? We ask our towns to pretty much do everything for us for the municipal dollars received.
Shouldn't the County to justify the county portion of our taxes do more?
Aren't we and a couple of other towns the gooses that lay the golden eggs for the County's revenues?
Todd- Don't be lazy now. What do you get for your money?
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1529
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:04 pm: |
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Gad Facts, dont' call Todd lazy...you are the one who asked the question without doing any research.
Add jails, clearing of major roads, additional policing, etc. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 151
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:06 pm: |
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Yeah we really need the jails !
Additional policing? how so? |
Todd Manana
Citizen
Username: T_manana
Post Number: 7
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 6:42 pm: |
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Put this thread in the waste of time column.
Thanks for backing me up susan1014. It would seem that factvsfiction might be lazy and needs the gov't and the rest of us to do everything for him/her. Just another whiner.
See ya! |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1530
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:23 pm: |
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Definite waste of time, but before I sign off, let me say this...I've sat on a Grand Jury, hearing a cross section of crime from this county (including MSH), and can tell you that we definitely do need jails for the perps.
Fact, you clearly haven't noticed the county sheriffs in our parks and on our county roads, or the fact that all but basic civil violations are tried at the county level (with county prosecutors and DAs). You don't seem to have thought very hard about the range of services that support our area. Not to mention South Mountain Reservation, Turtleback Zoo, and the amazing cherry blossoms in Branch Brook Park.
Yeah, we pay more than poorer areas ...that's what we get for buying nice real estate. If we can't handle the burden of being suburban middle class/ upper class, there is an alternative...go live in Newark and be one of Sharpe James' constituents, and enjoy the tax subsidy.
You have a problem with progressive taxes, then say so, but don't say that county government does nothing to support your life. Our county government has many problems and areas in need of reform, but it does provide a wide range of services. |
Glock 17
Citizen
Username: Glock17
Post Number: 778
Registered: 7-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 8:34 pm: |
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Oh, snap. |
Todd Manana
Citizen
Username: T_manana
Post Number: 8
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 9:19 pm: |
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Well said Susan.
Some people just don't get it. Always complaining and never getting off their butts to do anything about it. Sadly, MOL is chock full of people just like that.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 153
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 9:48 pm: |
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County employees Todd and Susan?
All joking aside, you two can't tell me much and did not address my thread. And that is the point. Think about it. We all count every service we get from our towns for the pennies we spend. We demand they do better, cost us less, and have plans to save us money, etc. But when it comes to the County we can only relate generic services. And we don't ask them for their plans.
Susan- if it needs reform why are you ok with it? |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1531
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:05 pm: |
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Not a county employee, and don't know anyone who is, as far as I can recall. Can't speak for Todd, as I don't know him.
I'm not ok with a number of the details of how the county does its business, but I keep myself very informed, and I vote.
I just think it is sloppy/ignorant to assume that because they aren't on your street daily, doing things that you can identify, you can assume the county isn't doing anything. I don't think that courts, jails and parks are "generic", and I actually know quite a bit of the detail of the county's plans for them, just from reading the news, but I don't have the time or inclination to recite it all to you.
Happy to debate how to improve the County, once you've done your homework |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 156
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:10 pm: |
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Susan- since you can't summarize any I assume you are a real speed reader.
again, what is wrong with how the county does business?
Let Me Explain It To You Again- My post was to get people thinking. We all complain about our towns and what they do or don't do but not many pay attention to the County. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13943
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:40 pm: |
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This looks like a case of "if I don't see them doing it, they must not be doing anything."
I see this in the corporate world. Usually, there is little respect for people two or three levels up in management, when the company is big enough to support many levels.
Massachusetts and Connecticut (and I think Maryland) have eliminated a layer of government. MA and CT got rid of the counties. I think MD got rid of the municipalities, and now there're there for the names' sakes. Sure, it can be done. But they haven't saved any money. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. But I can't see how it can be considered a good idea, either.
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1532
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:45 pm: |
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Facts,
I could summarize, but don't choose to. I read faster than I type, and have other missions tonight than summarizing the news for you. (I'm answering during a break between drafting a volunteer board memo and planning the Scout camping trip)
Do your own reading, and say something informative and concrete if you want to get a debate started. |
sbenois
Supporter
Username: Sbenois
Post Number: 14984
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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Susan1014,
The county takes roughly 18 cents of every Maplewoodian's tax dollar. The Town itself takes roughly 24 cents.
Is it your belief that the county provides roughly 75% of the value that the town gives to its citizens?
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1533
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:56 pm: |
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Well, the County tries, convicts and jails criminals, and provides lovely (if undermaintained) parks, while my town (South Orange) creates large holes in the ground, runs up debts in questionable real estate deals, collects leaves (eventually), runs a fire department, pays the spiraling gas bill for our lovely gaslights, and runs extremely uncivil town meetings. Both of them pave some roads and pay for some law enforcement officials (when a murder happens in either town, much of the investigation and all of the trial is done by the County, for example).
I have to say it is an "apples and oranges" comparison, since the things that the Village does, it often does in my front yard, while much of what the County does is happily done at some remove from my shaded suburban home. Also because the Village is much more economically homogenous than the County, so I'm not subsidizing many poor in my Village taxes, unlike in my County taxes.
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Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13954
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, April 30, 2006 - 11:58 pm: |
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If you got back exactly the value you put in, it wouldn't be called taxation.
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Bob K
Supporter
Username: Bobk
Post Number: 11365
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 4:30 am: |
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You can reverse the arguement and say that we really don't need municipal government. The main functions of local government are public protection; police, fire, emergency medical, public health, code enforcement, etc. You can make an arguement that a county, with the economy of scale, can do this cheaper than each municipality, although I am not sure I buy into this.
I also believe that the State pays for the court system, or at least a good part of it, meaning salaries. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 159
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 7:19 am: |
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# 1- I wasn't talking about what services the County provides, I was talking about what they are doing in terms of reducing costs, finding efficiencies, and making sure they keep down their portion of our tax bill.
Seems no one here knows.
Having grown up in a democratic machine town and in a family of democrats I get a little queasy when I see we have one party domination of County government and pretty well established machine politics in Essex. I think my comments would apply to any one party in total control situation, so don't get worked up, you hard-core dems. It's only the simpletons that assume there can be no patronage or waste under those type of circumstances. It ain't necessarily the selfless, highminded government you see on "The West Wing". Or is it? You tell me.
Let me throw out something to Susan, her of no examples, here. Essex decided at this time of rising taxes, to create a program at the cost of 300k to encourage minority vendors to bid on County contracts and pay a salary of 90k to its director, a Maplewood resident BTW. Is this a practical business expenditure? Politics? What do you think? Were you even aware of it?
In my mind I would kinda ask, haven't they heard of simply creating, and at a lower cost, a web site to encourage, inform, and assist new bidders and advertising it? Also, I would kinda be concerned about giving out business contracts to, and relying on the performance of, contracts by people who can't seem to figure out how to bid or seek County work in the first place, and apparently need to be walked through it via a well-funded program. Are they going to ask new vendors for performance bonds? Doubt it. Anyway, what do you think?
I would be willing to bet that next to no residents from our three area towns go to Freeholder meetings to ask about or question anything. Do our municipal representatives? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13959
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 7:39 am: |
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factvsfiction wrote: Seems no one here knows.
I hope you don't draw any conclusions from that.
It ain't necessarily the selfless, highminded government you see on "The West Wing".
No one here said that. In fact, a few said they're not happy with the way it operates. I just don't think that dismantling a rotten system necessarily leaves something better in its place.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 161
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
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tom- Said nothing about dismantling. How about accountabilty? |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 13962
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:40 am: |
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Oh, sorry I misunderstood you. Sure, accountability seems called for.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 162
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:42 am: |
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but we don't ask for it ! we just scream at our respective town leaders. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1094
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 8:59 am: |
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I'm hoping that the county portion of my taxes goes to pay the 100k + salary of some Joe "D" cronie who along with his school teacher wife will be able to buy my Maplewood house . Anyone with kids leaving college wondering what to do . Go Big Goverment Young Person, were else do mediocre people get takin care of from college to grave like Big Government. |
susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:57 am: |
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Facts, you seem to feel a need to insult me, but I tried to answer the question you asked above (post 146), which was "What do you get for your money?"
You can layer on other questions, and attack me for not answering them, but I answered the question that you had just asked on the thread, not the one that you now say you are asking. Of course we need to fight for accountability, and reform where needed.
I'm not at a place in my life where I have time (or childcare coverage) for freeholders meetings, or for continued conversation with you online, given your tone. I'm hoping you will use your energy going to these meetings, reporting back to us, and helping drive the reform that we will reward with our votes. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 163
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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Susan- Not my intention to flame you as you seem to think, just to point out, we think we know, but do we really? You were not very nice to me at the beginning of this thread you know.
My suggestions -
Essex County Freeholders schedule a certain amount of their meetings each year to be held in different Essex County municipalities, and on a rotating basis until at least one meeting has been held in each municipality. Knowing that they have to be appear in a particular town and answer questions would certainly make them more thoughtful of that towns' concerns and the effect of their spending on it.
Good idea for an online petition?
Have people from Maplewood, South Orange, Millburn/Short Hills, and Montclair run for election to the Freeholder Board and/or for County Executive. Whether they win or not the "squeaky wheel" tends to get greased by political machines, especially if they want to maintain power and not be challenged.
Unlikely you can run as a dem, due to the county organization, or a rep, they were defeated the last time, probably best as independent. Someone like Fred Profeta would be great for the Freeholder Board when he finishes up his political career in Maplewood. Certainly a couple of other decent people in both towns. Someone like Corey Booker, with his type of educational background and youthful dynamism would be great as County Executive.
Here in MSH, when Tom McDermott was Mayor he started the secession drive from Essex County. Essex County as a result started to pay a great deal of attention then, including funding. It is continuing under the democratically controlled TC. Questioning and challenging does seem to have some impact on the County people. It just makes sense to do so in order to have some say in the County portion of our tax bill.
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susan1014
Supporter
Username: Susan1014
Post Number: 1538
Registered: 3-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 1, 2006 - 9:19 pm: |
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Fact, if you had posted earlier with the thoughtfulness you do now, I'd have given you a different reception than I did when you were calling another poster lazy for not answering your questions.
Glad to see you engaging on the issues. Honestly, at the start you came on as if you were both rude and uninformed, so I gave the response that seemed appropriate. Sorry if I misunderstood you. |
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