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Thread Originator Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Archive through May 9, 2006 Zoesky1 Cynicalgirl 40  1  5-9-06  3:59 pm   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1481 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 4:30 pm:        Having been married, now divorced, and having had both my own career (journalist) and serving as a SAHM, I feel I have an interesting perspective. My ex was the breadwinner when he walked out on me and two kids. I had frozen our Merrill Lynch joint investment account the day before he split, as I sensed some rumblings, then the next day he split, emptying regular bank account (checking) of $7K and literally leaving me with about $100 in my purse....no way for me to access ML account because the only way to unfreeze it was with both signatures. I had an AmEx and a useless debit card (since bank account was empty). We hadn't been big credit card users, so no other credit cards. Anyway, I had no paycheck coming in (he did, of course). I had nothing but the $100 --- he had the $7K, and the money in the ML was frozen -- and my AmEx. My point is, I wish so badly I had had my own checking account in my own name with some money in it. Thank god for AmEx, but it was not a great situation to find yourself in. In a few days I had a lawyer who filed a motion to put money from the ML account in escrow to pay household bills, etc and to give me some of the $7K, but that's only because I had access to money (from family) to retain a lawyer. If I hadn't, it could have been VERY bad. My point is, I think all wives should have their own accounts in their own names, esp. if they are not employed outside the home. In the end, I got 50% of everything and things worked out just fine financially....but those couple of days with no paycheck, nothing in the bank were not fun. And if I ever get married again, as I hope to do, it's my own bank account all the way, no commingled money, and my house stays in my own name. I would even consider a prenup. Once burned, twice shy. Nothing is guaranteed -- and certainly not a husband sticking around forever. A woman (and for that matter a man, but it's usually us women who quit our jobs to stay home) needs to protect herself.   greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7624 Registered: 5-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 4:38 pm:        I guess it's more complicated with kids, but we wrestle with the separate money thing, too. There is often one partner who earns more than the other and it is critical that it is not used as any kind of leverage. When we bought the sponge and left our rent-controlled apartment, our lifestyle changed and we had to be more careful about money. We worked out a household budget and with the left-over, each worked out what we need monthly for commuting, discretionary money, etc. The amount was not tied to individual income. That amount goes into separate savings accounts to be used accordingly. I have no idea how TS spends her money (even tho I am nosy and wish she would tell me just on principle), she doesn't ask how I spend mine and our bills get paid. When I first graduated from college, I was doing volunteer work and job hunting, trying to figure out what I wanted to be when I grew up. It took me 6 months to find a job. About 3 months in, I remember asking my then-beloved (we lived together) for money for a pack of cigarettes and subway tokens. I remember feeling very humiliated and promised myself that I would never again be in the situation of having to be supported. Now that I am older and wiser, I realize that the humiliation came not so much from being dependent, but from being with the wrong person. No matter what,tho, I agree that each partner must have some money of their own, no matter how little or what the original source.   Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14173 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 4:42 pm:        Yes, if nothing else, it helps you buy your beloved a birthday gift without divulging the amount you spent. I expected my wife to raise her eyebrows when I bought an ipod for myself. And I even bought it used. But now I think of all the things that she buys that I could resent if I were so inclined but I never even give a thought to.   Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1211 Registered: 5-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 5:13 pm:        Well, as I said, what works for one person won't necessarily work for someone else. I hope, at least, that we've raised peoples' consciousness a little where finances are concerned. Nobody can afford to be ignorant about his or her family's finances, and everybody should have a pivate fund for which he or she is accountable to no one else. And everybody needs to establish his or her own personal credit history. Death, divorce, disability, desertion can happen to anyone anytime. We should try to prepare for such eventualities.   Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14178 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 5:16 pm:        That's a pretty rough story, Zoesky1. Sorry you had to go through that, but I'm glad it worked out OK in the end. When my ex started leaving us, she pulled similar stunts but not as extremely, and it was a more gradual process.   greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7628 Registered: 5-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 5:28 pm:        Zoesky - I never understand parents who punish their children during a split. I'm sure he meant to "do it" to you, but where were you supposed to get money to feed the kids? About 12 years ago, TS's grandmother died. One of her brothers (a SAHD) was in the process of splitting up with his wife. The brother was driving from Chicago for the funeral with his two older kids (the stepkids of the wife). They were young teens at the time. Anyway, on the road to CT, the brother stops for gas and his bank card doesn't work and his credit card is bad. Turns out that the wife had both cards voided. He managed to make it to his sister's house, where the family gave him money. He was angry, but I will never forget his 12 y/o daughter, crying and scared because she didn't know why her stepmom (who been in her life since she was 3) would do this to her, why she was mad at her, how would they eat, etc. Another friend's ex, during the divorce process, refused to take the kids, telling her to "get your friends to watch them if you want to go out." All the kids heard was that their dad didn't want to see them. People can be really vicious and just don't think sometimes. I'm sorry it happened to you; I can't imagine how your kids felt that their father would do that to them.   Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14180 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 5:32 pm:        greenetree, as deplorable as such antics are, it's amazingly common in divorces. As a divorced parent, I have probably read hundreds of stories like this. My disgust is never diminished, but my shock is.   CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2278 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:17 pm:        My sister's lousy ex won't pay one penny towards his daughters' college education, even though he now has money, because the court told him his responsibility ended when they graduated from high school or age 18, whichever came first. One of my nieces at least gets that this is not nice, and has very little that is nice to say about her dad. Her older sister, not so much - it is really sad to see her contort herself into making excuses for this loser (who used to be a cocaine addict, and beat my sister to within an inch of her life. The kids don't know any of this, my sister being a saint and all). Grrr. Divorce really brings out the evil in some people. I don't understand how that can happen - how much bitterness and hatred they hold inside and look for ways to make the other person suffer, even if it makes their own kids suffer too. And this is a person they presumably once loved. Anyway, I'm all for having separate bank accounts, whatever your situation. I'm not keen on calling your money a "salary" though, as to me it turns the partner with the paid outside job into the boss. Maybe it's just semantics that's bugging me about that.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1483 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:19 pm:        Tom, you're 100% right. When I showed up at the lawyer and told my story, he was completely unsurprised...he'd heard it all before. Spouses who empty bank accounts, cancel credit cards, cut off cell phones, etc., are all too common. Fortunately my AmEx was in my name, as I had had the account open since before getting married. And fortunately I had a great lawyer who fought hard and did very well for me. But it was not a pretty start to the divorce process. Ironically, three years later, my ex and I get along pretty well and share joint legal custody (I have physical custody). He has never missed a child support payment, and is very fair about splitting childcare costs, tuition for ballet, sports, camp, etc. Now he's about to get remarried. And the kids were young enough to have had this all wash over their heads. Maybe some day when they're 21 or older I will tell them what happened....   CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2279 Registered: 6-2002 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:19 pm:        PS meant to put this in the post above - zoesky, that so totally sucks. When you're ruminating over your missing $85K mommy salary (which you deserve!), remind yourself how far you've come - what an inspiration. It won't get you $85K, but maybe it will bring some satisfaction.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1484 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:22 pm:        Oh, and thanks, Tom and Greenetree. We've all done fine. In the end, the process got my life off in a different direction, and now I am thrilled to be with a man who's better than my ex. Plus I have two awesome kids.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1485 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:22 pm:        Thanks, CLK!   Factvsfiction Citizen Username: Factvsfiction Post Number: 369 Registered: 4-2006 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 6:36 pm:        Women are always triumphant. Plus they are generally smarter than men. I sadly admit.   greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 7629 Registered: 5-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 7:09 pm:        Zoes - one minor suggestion. Don't ever tell the kids. Tempting as it will be, if their father is really a hemerrhoid, they'll figure it out thru their own relationships with him. I was 15 when my parents split up. I don't know if my dad pulled any really horrid stunts, but I do remember trickle down tension. It all passed (as you said) but any mention of a negative by one parent made us feel as if we had to take sides. Resist the urge; it will only hurt them and make them wonder why you are dredging up ancient history.   Lizziecat Citizen Username: Lizziecat Post Number: 1212 Registered: 5-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 7:22 pm:        Its true what Greenetree says; kids should be allowed to love both parents, even if one parent is lower than a worm. When they're old enough they'll figure things out for themelves, and if one parent badmouths the other, no matter if it's deserved, it'll only come back to bite the badmouthing parent in the •••.   Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 1826 Registered: 5-2001 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 8:05 pm:        FvF - Quote: Women are always triumphant. Plus they are generally smarter than men. Ugh - that attitude is part of the problem. Along the lines of "Kiss me, I'm Irish, Italian...etc." Translated it means "I'm so harmless I can (ha ha) rise up with a bumper sticker or T-shirt and tell you I'm Better, but in real life I'm powerless"   Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14192 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 11:43 pm:        I'll chime in with the others and say don't blame the ex to the kids. Even when they're adults, they need to know that they came from two worthy human beings. They will learn the dirt on him and on you, and you can hope that they put it in proper perspective. The more you make an effort to badmouth him, the more it counts against you, not him. And watch what happens when they each turn 13. You will be amazed.   Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 2748 Registered: 9-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 6:34 am:        Kids also need to be allowed to loathe a parent, too, at least for awhile. Having dated a lot of divorced guys, I note how troubled they were when one of the kids goes through a spell of hating/disliking one or both parents. Sometimes the "saintly" one who truly looks after them (fear of turning into a doormat). Often the ill-behaved one (went out with a number of guys with crazy, irresponsible ex's who ditched them and the kids). The kid has a right to his/her feelings. Mother (or father) love is not necessarily hardwired, and kids are smart enough to see when adults are acting selfishly. At least the older kids.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1486 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 12:50 pm:        You guys are 100% on the mark. I would never, and have never, "badmouth" my ex, because my kids adore him, and one thing he and I did agree on was to never turn one parent against the other. As I mentioned, we get along quite well now, and that couldn't have happened if one of us was badmouthing the other. I am even invited to his wedding. However, my only intention in telling them as adults the circumstances surounding his leaving would be to fully fill them in on things, maybe to help guide them as independent, strong adults who take nothing for granted. That said, I'm sure by that point -- which is quite far in the future, considering their ages now -- I'll even have passed on caring what my ex did decades before....by that point, I hope to be really far moved along in my own life. And they will have other ways of getting important life lessons. Probably best to never touch it again. BTW, I don't normally go around posting the circumstances of his leaving either....but it was relevant to this discussion, and if it makes a difference and helps even just one other woman avoid being in that situation, it is helpful.   Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14203 Registered: 1-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:03 pm:        Are you saying that you'd recount the story in a neutral, non-judgemental tone? I say don't bother. When I was older, I heard some stories about things that went on before and after my parents' divorce. I'd be better off not hearing them. Tell others if you need to get it off your chest.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1487 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:07 pm:        Yes, I agree. As I said, probably better off never to touch it again.   Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 272 Registered: 2-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 1:45 pm:        A child should be given only so much information about the true reasons for the divorce. I am divorced and even though I got dumped like a dirty prom dress at age 24 for a younger (don't you love it) and childless woman who was 20 I made a point of getting along with my ex as soon as possible. Got to suck in the pride and smile in the face of the person that hurt you cause you got to make the whole thing as easy as possible on the kids. My son is now 17 and my daughter is 15 and they know three things: 1 Mom and dad weren't great together as a couple 2. Mom and dad can be called upon at any time if they are needed 3. Mom and dad love me more then live itself That's all kids really need to know. And you are right by the time they are teenagers like mine they have figured it all out anyway. No mom has a right to take dad away by trashing them or the other way around. Plus I have seen it on friends...it works for a couple of years and then the payback comes.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1488 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 3:50 pm:        OK, people! I don't trash my ex -- quite the contrary. I merely said I might share some facts with my kids when they are adults -- as in, over 21. But I probably won't care to even do that by then.   Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 281 Registered: 2-2006 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:22 pm:        oh Zoeske1 I didn't mean you personally I was talking to parents in general. Since I was so young when I got divorced my kids were the only ones in their circle of friends whose parents got divorced. One by one I saw couples heading down the same road and some really went crazy.. I remember this one couple who would not let the other parent pick up the kids at the respective home so they would meet in the Pathmark parkinglot and make the kids walk on neutral soil...I mean give me a break. All I wanted to say was:I know it sucks to be nice to the spouse that hurt you but it is so well worth it for the kids sake and after a while you might just discover that your very sucky ex is a great parent and a good friend. I was lucky my ex turned out like that.   Zoesky1 Citizen Username: Zoesky1 Post Number: 1489 Registered: 6-2003 Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:38 pm:        Oh, OK, Bajou. I may have misunderstood you. I too was young to get divorced -- only 35 -- and none of my kids' friends' parents had (or have, to this point) split. I have now heard of several couples I knew in the past who are now splitting up; many of them have kids. It's sad. Actually, it DID suck to be nice to a person who was so horrible. But he and I have put many of our differences in the past, and we actually get along OK, at least for the sake of our kids. It's not 100% perfect, and being a single parent stinks, but things are not at all bad. And I count myself as among the luckier single parents because I own a home, make a decent salary, and get decent financial support from my ex.