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Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 24
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 9:23 pm: | 
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The name makes no sense and the specified height of 1,776 feet has no relevance.
Lets examine for a minute what REALLY happened on September 11. Nineteen (19) men (that were a product of a perverted culture) decided that nothing else mattered except to have the experience of penetrating 79 virgins. They believed that killing three thousand innocent human beings would earn them the right to have that experience. So all this wreckage because 19 filthy pigs (likely a subset of a larger population of same) needed to penetrate 79 young women.
And from that we somehow get to the light and fluffy "Freedom Tower" with a cute height of 1776 feet (right, I see how the year of our independence relates to all of this). I can't get there. Can someone please connect the dots for me? Why are we not acknowledging the elephant in the room?
And well, umm , heres a really dumb question. How about uhhh, "World Trade Center"?? Is that identity somehow radioactive now? It sure seems like an appropriate and tasteful designation to me.
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Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 313
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 9:41 pm: |
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Why does sex have to be connected to everything? |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2033
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 9:43 pm: |
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it should be called the Phoenix towers and it should be alot more stupendous than the boring mess they are going to build. no vision anymore, everything gets killed by committee |
Cerebrus Maximus
Citizen
Username: Xtralargebrain
Post Number: 27
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Friday, May 5, 2006 - 10:04 pm: |
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FVF.. Why?? Because its just another human weakness that we all dont want to acknowledge. We so desperately want to believe that we are advanced but at the end of the day, we are just underdeveloped organisms that are driven by sex (no different than any other species on this planet). The only difference is that we are slightly more self aware than other species but thats about it. Its a hard pill to swallow but its true.
Lib, I like your suggestion and it seems very appropriate. Some people have noticed similarities in our viewpoints and due to their ignorance and simplemindedness have concluded that we are one in the same. I hope that through communication of our insights, that we can make a difference and re-orient and correct their behavior. |
The Libertarian
Citizen
Username: Local_1_crew
Post Number: 2035
Registered: 3-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 6, 2006 - 1:41 pm: |
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if you do not conform to the group think they become insulting and dismissive. for a group that likes to think that they are progressive and intelligent , they can be quite close minded and peurile. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1296
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Saturday, May 6, 2006 - 1:56 pm: |
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please stayed tuned for reruns of 'To Tell the Truth'
right after this episode of alias... |
Todd Manana
Citizen
Username: T_manana
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2005
| | Posted on Sunday, May 7, 2006 - 4:00 pm: |
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Freedom Tower? That's been a joke ever since certain 9/11 family members (let's call them the WHINE/11 faction) hijacked the entire project for their own selfish reasons. It wasn't enough to profit financially from the generosity of Americans and the U.S. Gov't. They apparently feel they're more entitled than the rest of us. I wonder what the same folks are doing to compensate and support the families of the soldiers who have died in Iraq as a result of 9/11? Probably nothing since they wouldn't gain from it. Won't be too much longer before more Americans have died in Iraq than on 9/11.
Good to see Bloomberg drawing the line on this billion dollar debacle. Enough already! The rest of America moved on about 4 years ago. |
SOSully
Citizen
Username: Sullymw
Post Number: 1252
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 9:47 am: |
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Interesting point. I certainly have the utmost sympathy for the families of the victims of 9/11, but I have similar sympathy for the families of boys who died in Iraq, Afghanistan, or the streets of our own cities. I don't understand why the government gave big payouts for the 9/11 families, but other victims' families get virtually nothing. I don't begrudge them the money, but what made their suffering more than others who lose loved ones? |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3030
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 9:55 am: |
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SOSully, I believe the rationale is that soldiers know the risks they are taking, as do their family members. The people who died on 9/11 (even the NYPD, NYFD, and PAPD officers) were in an extreme situation, and did not expect that they were putting their lives on the line.
I'm not sure I completely agree with it, but I believe that is the line of thinking. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 866
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 11:23 am: |
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I wholeheartedly agree with the above posts. The freedom tower is an abomination that should not be built.
We should rebuild those towers precisely the way they were, down to the last detail. That is the best memorial we could possibly build to those who died, and it would serve an excellent message to those who hate us: you can knock us down, but we will recover and rebuild. |
Straw Kennedy
Supporter
Username: Strawberry
Post Number: 7179
Registered: 10-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 12:44 pm: |
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"We should rebuild those towers precisely the way they were, down to the last detail."
well, one would hope for better fire exits, more stairwells, etc. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 867
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 1:12 pm: |
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And a Phalanx CIWS on the roof. |
tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4307
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 1:36 pm: |
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"We should rebuild those towers precisely the way they were, down to the last detail. That is the best memorial we could possibly build to those who died, and it would serve an excellent message to those who hate us: you can knock us down, but we will recover and rebuild. "
I am willing to bet the terrorists don't care if we rebuild or leave a vacant lot. And I don't think what or how we rebuild will send a message to people who hate us one way or the other. It feels like we, as a nation, want to compare this to WW II or something where, for example, rebuilding our navy after Pearl Harbor not only sent a message to Japan, but also provided the delivery vehicle. Not rebuilding our navy would have meant that Japan won. Not rebuilding the WTC doesn't mean the terrorists win. On the other hand, abandoning our interests in the Middle East would. |
mjh
Supporter
Username: Mjh
Post Number: 510
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 2:10 pm: |
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Chris,
I'm curious to know if you really believe they could rent the office space in the upper floors of a newly built WTC. Would you work there? It's pretty clear that the fire department can't put out a fire up there, and that the buildings were a tempting symbolic target. Personally, I don't want to work there. Bravado talk is cheap, but getting big businesses to move in there will be hard, IMHO.
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mrmaplewood
Citizen
Username: Mrmaplewood
Post Number: 341
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 4:19 pm: |
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Right! It's like a bowling alley. Knock them down, then set them up again for the next attempt. You know that the Freedom Tower is going to be the new target. Let's be sensable and NOT build it.
To the families of the deceased 9/11 victims, sorry, but that is how I feel. We don't need to spend a billion bucks to give them a new target. Something more modest maybe. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14134
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 5:00 pm: |
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You must admit this, though: everyone has an opinion on this topic!
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bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 430
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 5:35 pm: |
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It will never get built because it will never be rented. Who would choose to move in? Terrorists would be gunning for it from the moment it was completed. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 870
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 5:51 pm: |
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OK, you are all correct.
Let's admit defeat, and demolish all tall buildings (starting with the empire state building) so that the terrorists will not have any more targets. And let's take down any other building that might be a target.
Have we lost our nerve?
Terrorism will not be around forever. Pick up your history books. And yes, I would gladly work in the new WTC. I did before and would again. Your chances of dying in a terrorist attack are right up there with your chances of being hit by lightning.
If you alter the design or height of any building because of terrorist concerns, they have won.
There is NO defence against terrorism. There is only offence. Something that neither side of the aisle seems to understand. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14141
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 5:55 pm: |
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Yeah, but if the primary reason to build a supertall tower is to show that we are not defeated, we have a tower that's taller than it needs to be. In other words, the height should not be determined by the "message" we want to send. It should be determined by need and market demand. It's not clear that the demand for a supertall tower exists, and there's evidence to show that it doesn't. Look how long it took to fill the WTC.
And is it a politically incorrect thing to remind you that we hated it when it was proposed, when it went up, and for years thereafter? After a few years, we became numb to the design, but that's not a very strong endorsement, either.
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tjohn
Supporter
Username: Tjohn
Post Number: 4308
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 6:05 pm: |
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Chris,
The only people who care if we rebuild the WTC or something similar are our own navel-gazing selves. I am sure Bin Laden has other things in mind such as killing Americans in Iraq. The United States can be as flat as a pancake, but if we are still protecting and advancing our interests in the Middle East, the terrorists have not won.
The Arizona Memorial wasn't constructed until twenty years after Pearl Harbor. But then, after our crushing defeat of Japan, we were able to use memorials simply to honor the dead and not to convince the living that we were still strong.
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bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 431
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 8, 2006 - 7:07 pm: |
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I'm not admitting defeat, just telling you how developers and corporate execs work. A building like this isn't constructed on spec -- there has to be some form of advanced commitment from some of the tenants.
Now suppose you're an executive of a large company seeking office space in the next few years, and you're about to tell your workforce about the great new space you'll be leasing on the 100th floor of Liberty Tower. Do you tell them they have a greater chance of being hit by lightning... or just look elsewhere for your new offices?
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 871
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:12 am: |
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(Very long sigh. . . )
Valid points, all. But the original WTC was built on spec by the Port Authority precisely to attract business to the downtown area. And it worked, not matter what the nimby's and professional critics said. Yes, it attracted a lot of criticism when it went up. I would imagine the Flavian ampitheater did as well.
And that's not navel gazing.
As I said in my earlier post, terrorism will fade out, as it always has. Then people will move into the upper floors and pay a premium to do so, as the always have. |
jet
Citizen
Username: Jet
Post Number: 1103
Registered: 7-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:23 am: |
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No it didn't , the WTC was a white elephant for years , mostly occupied by NYS gov. . It wasn't till the late 90's during the eco boom that it came even near capacity . The guys @ Cantor for the most part didn't like working there . It was the best deal that Lutnick {notorisly cheap } could find. |
Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 873
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:30 am: |
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Sorry, that's incorrect.
The WTC was fully occupied in the mid 80's. Yes, the state had a lot of offices there, which moved out as private occupants moved in.
Everyone I knew at CantorFitz loved working there. Great commute, big mall in the basement, columm free floors, lots of space.
The WTC was built to attract business back to the downtown area, which had been moribund since the late 60's.
And it worked. Three well deserved cheers for James Tobin. |
bottomline
Citizen
Username: Bottomline
Post Number: 433
Registered: 8-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 9:41 am: |
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There is no inconsistency between "the WTC was a white elephant for years" and "the WTC was fully occupied in the mid 80's". Construction was completed in 1973. Also, because its rents were lower than the surrounding area, it became home to a lot of back office operations that otherwise wouldn't have located in the Wall Street area. I find it hard to believe that those operations, or anything like them, are poised to move back to lower Manhattan.
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Chris Prenovost
Citizen
Username: Chris_prenovost
Post Number: 877
Registered: 7-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 9, 2006 - 12:52 pm: |
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Maybe they will not, but others will. Build it, and they will come.
Eventually. |
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