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Message |
    
hch
Citizen
Username: Hch
Post Number: 260
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 4:43 pm: | 
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Where's the love? |
Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4402
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 5:05 pm: |
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Hey Man, you gotta give it to get it.
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Case
Citizen
Username: Case
Post Number: 1526
Registered: 2-2005
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 6:12 pm: |
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I have a great story about something called 'the furry checkbook', but I'm not sure if it's appropriate for a family-oriented message board like MOL. |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 7:02 pm: |
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You Daddies still make $1 to the Mommies' .70 cents or less salaries.
10% of Mommies get a good deal if they stay at home and Daddy brings home the real good bacon.
90% of Mommies work at least one-underpaid job and often two. Don't even get me started on benefits.
There's no such thing as a "Daddy Track"
Quite yer whining hch and count your blessings. |
hch
Citizen
Username: Hch
Post Number: 262
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 8:25 pm: |
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Bless you my child. |
CageyD
Citizen
Username: Cageyd
Post Number: 684
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 10, 2006 - 9:15 pm: |
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Hiya Lydia,
I must disagree on one point of yours - namely there is no such thing as the daddy track.
Granted it's different than for women but my spouse made a conscious decision to avoid employers/situations that would require him be away from the family - long hours & frequent travel. There were a number of opportunities for more money and prestige but the family calling won out |
Lydia
Supporter
Username: Lydial
Post Number: 1838
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 7:02 am: |
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Cagey,
Quote:my spouse made a conscious decision to avoid employers/situations that would require him be away from the family -
That is different - your spouse made the decision.
The whole deal with "the Mommy track" is it's not the Mommies who make the decision, it's their employers.
Biiiig difference. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14212
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 7:26 am: |
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I don't follow what you're saying, Lydia.
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greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7640
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 8:39 am: |
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Women in the corporate world are subtly (because it's illegal) and not so subtly sometimes, pushed certain ways, promoted, etc., based on whether or not they have children. Even if they never have to leave early or take a day off with a sick child. I actually had an executive ask me during an interview about 10 years ago, "Do you have kids? The last woman who had your job had kids and could never stay past 5p."
I have never had a male friend or coworker be asked that question during an interview.
I know, in many families, both parents share equal responsibility, blah, blah. But, the assumptions on the part of the employer are still there.
I don't happen to think that part of my job is to pick up the slack for a coworker with kids who chooses to take time out of the day to go do kid things. My particular job isn't filled with women who have to work to make ends meet; it's a clear career path. But I also think that it is unfair and wrong to track female employees with kids a certain way just because they have kids. |
Marge N Averra
Citizen
Username: Marge_n_averra
Post Number: 44
Registered: 8-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 9:01 am: |
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One thing that gets my goat is something that has happened to my husband. He is a college prof, and has a female co-worker who demanded that she not teach evening classes as she has a kid.
So my husband got stuck with two evening classes. He doesn't come home one of those nights until after I and our kid are both in bed. The other night, he shows up at our kid's bedtime.
This has caused us problems as I have had evening meetings at work, and we need to get a babysitter. Some evening events I've missed, which has not been good for my career.
My point is that he has a kid, too - and a wife with a very demanding career-track job. Insisting that he take on extra responsibilities to "help out" a female colleague is flat out wrong. It is explicitly sexist, as there is this assumption that he has no child-care duties because he is a dad rather than a mom.
His being forced to take on extra work for a female colleague is flat out wrong - just as it is flat out wrong that greenetree might be expected to take on work for colleagues with children (she didn't say that this happened, just that she is unwilling to do this - and she is quite right).
I am a career-track mother and I do not expect anybody else to take on any of my work because I have a child. That's one of the reasons I rose quickly to a high level in my work. I haven't sacrificed anything - lucky for me, I work in an industry where I can get to work early and leave early, and I spend a lot of time with my school-age kid. I too made a conscious choice (like CageyD) to work in an industry where this was possible, even though I sacrifice some income. But it's not mommy-track because nobody cuts me any special breaks or has reduced expectations of me. And I've done well.
I don't believe in mommy track or daddy track. You make a choice for yourself, based on your family situation or whatever your priorities happen to be, and you live with that choice.
On the other hand, do NOT get me started about the subtle sexism that exists EVERYWHERE at work - unrelated to being a mom. E.g. a male colleague and I are co-chairing a committee. When we first proposed the formation of this committee, we sent a memo signed by both of us, explicitly stating that we will co-chair. The memo goes to a different committee of higher-ups, who would approve our committee (sounds like MOnty Python doesn't it?). Anyway my male colleague gets invited to their committee - I don't. He invites me along anyway. We show up. The higher-ups introduce our proposal as "Bob wants to form this committee, and he will be chair, let's discuss." Another time a male colleague introduces me to somebody else as "The sweetheart of (our organization)." Another time at a very recent social function, a male colleague (coincidentally, but relevantly, our general counsel) tells me and a female co-worker that he needs to go "discuss some business with those guys over at another table," though they aren't "as pretty as" the two of us. |
Zoesky1
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 1491
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:22 am: |
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I purposely mommytracked myself. I had no choice. Way back in 1998, before I had kids but after I was married (and kids were definitely imminent), I took a very prestigious job at a major consumer personal finance magazine. It quickly became apparent to me that there were no moms there. Basically, everyone was either a) in their 20s, unmarried or b) a man in his 30s or 40s with kids and a stay-at-home wife. I was clearly marked as a short-termer, because I was 31, married, and female. The hours were nutty. People came in at 10 am, but routinely stayed until 10 pm, even midnight. You were considered a wuss if you left at 6. If you left at 5, people would say, "Oh, leaving early?" Anyway, I got pregnant while working there, and stayed until I was 7 months pregnant, at which point I quit because it was 100% clear to me that they wouldn't go for it. There was no way my kid and this job could co-exist. So I went freelance for my remaining time until my child was born. After that, I took some time off, then took a 3-day-a-week job at a different magazine. By taking a part-time job, I was clearly mommytracking myself. I did that until my second child was born, then quit altogether. I didn't work at all until after my divorce. When I went back, it was at a much less prestigious publisher. But the key thing was, it was mommy-friendly. I made it clear that I was a single mom of young kids. I never stayed past 5:30 in the entire two years I worked there. I took a new job this past October: same thing. By leaving at 5, I raelize I will never be promoted. But that has ceased to be the goal. I have officially mommytracked myself. |
greenetree
Supporter
Username: Greenetree
Post Number: 7647
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:10 am: |
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I think the difference is when parents make a choice (like Zoesk) and when parents (almost always women in a certain age range) are categorized in the unspoken "mommy track".
Oh, don't get me wrong; I have no problem helping anyone out when family stuff happens. Lord knows that I wouldn't have made it thru 2005 without my coworkers who took responsibility for my stuff on the numerous occassions I had to leave and get to the hospital to deal with my mom.
But, when doing more work to accomodate someone else's personal life is routine, I have an issue. |
Brett Weir
Citizen
Username: Brett_weir
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 4-2004
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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My workplace is much more accomodating for Moms who leave for family commitments than Dads. Sick children, coaching sports, birthdays and the like are fodder for all kinds of groaning- many Dads don't leave for such things but some do (like me). While it is not officially discouraged, it is frowned upon for fathers to excercise accrued time to leave early or take off. Moms generally get a pass. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 398
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:24 pm: |
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Man are from Mars, Women are from Venus? |
Zoesky1
Citizen
Username: Zoesky1
Post Number: 1493
Registered: 6-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 12:58 pm: |
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I hear you, Greenetree. But the thing is, I don't feel like I did have much choice. In order to stay in my original field (print journalism) and be a mom, I had to trade down from a prestigious, stimulating, career-track job to first, a 3-day-week job (not promotion track) and then to a less prestigious, duller job, also not promotion-track. Then, last October, I changed careers...not a huge career switch, but to a field closely related to my old one (I'm now in editorial consulting/web consulting). This way, I can still work decent hours -- I am on the 5:20 train back to NJ every single day -- and potentially get ahead. But in my old field, it was mommytrack it or nothing (or not have kids at all, which was an unacceptable route). |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 792
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 8:32 pm: |
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This is a DADDY thread and I'm highjacking it:
Don't oversimplify this, allow me to.
I have observed that men's work ethic is often a response to the financial behavior of their own father.
Fathers who grew up poor or financially strained, worry about providing income more than time at home.
Those who grew up with a dad who they only saw in holiday pictures, make sure to be home and will struggle financially to make it happen.
Poor income generating father --> obsessive (absentee) son. Absentee father-->more attentive to family son. This may change in the next generation because modern fathers have more choices.
Anyone doing this? I was/am still, a little.
J.B. |
Factvsfiction
Citizen
Username: Factvsfiction
Post Number: 408
Registered: 4-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 9:52 pm: |
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So how much should Kevin Federline ( Mr. Brittany Spears) be paid? |
mwoodwalk
Citizen
Username: Mwoodwalk
Post Number: 540
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:34 pm: |
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Jersey+Boy---don't agree; my dad generated plenty of income (maybe not the most on the block, but hey, we grew up in super-richville), but was home no later than 7pm or so every night, and never worked weekends. I, on the other hand, am working the crazy hours (home after 9pm most nights, working one day at least on the weekends, esp. recently); at the moment, I'm inclined to find other work, if I can, that can allow me more time home w/ the wife and 3 kids; think there may be something to your theory, but I certainly am an exception.
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Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 808
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:46 pm: |
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Mwoodwalk,
How dare you call me Jersey+Boy! Don't you know I'm now Jersey_Boy?
So you were happy with your dad, and are trying to do the same?
J.B. |
mwoodwalk
Citizen
Username: Mwoodwalk
Post Number: 541
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 10:49 pm: |
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Yes, indeed, very happy with my dad, and am trying--poorly--to do as well as he did.
Many apologies for the typo, Jersey_Boy. ;) |
Jersey_Boy
Citizen
Username: Jersey_boy
Post Number: 810
Registered: 1-2006
| | Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:08 pm: |
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The "+" is a sensitive subject for me. Which I think you know.
Keep up the good Daddying.
J.B.
My head is okay now. |
Virtual It Girl
Citizen
Username: Shh
Post Number: 4411
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 12:16 am: |
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Mwoodwalk, my feeling is times have changed and getting home at 7 years ago in the daddy-track white collar workforce is now like getting home really late and possibly working on weekends.
It seems to me (as a SAHM) it's very difficult to get that balance between family life and work. |
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