| Author | Message | ||
     Pippi Supporter Username: Pippi Post Number: 2170 Registered: 8-2003  |
we beat Latvia. Whoopie. http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/parenting/05/08/mothers.index/index.html | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 14167 Registered: 1-2003  |
You can spend less on a healthcare "system" but you can't get a worse record than that. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 1307 Registered: 10-2004  |
it might help if more people had access to health insurance, pre-natal care, sex education and better nutrition. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 259 Registered: 2-2006 |
Actually if you read the article...we also have the highest rate in women who give birth over 40 which is throwing of the study... | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2280 Registered: 6-2002 |
I didn't see that. I did see that the infant mortality rate is VERY high among African-American babies - more like the rates in developing nations than the developed world. The high death rate in this group is largely due to low birth size.
Later age of motherhood was mentioned as a positive in the article. "Educated women, the report said, are more likely to marry and give birth later in life, to seek health care and to encourage education for their children, including girls." Another article on the same subject says the following:
I don't see any way to spin this, other than that health care in this country is not evenly or equitably distributed and does not serve our children well. It is shameful. I cannot think of any other word to use that adequately describes it. | ||
| combustion Citizen Username: Spontaneous Post Number: 23 Registered: 4-2006 |
I find it funny that our health care system looks down on midwives as inferior, yet in Europe where midwives are commonly used their infant and mother mortality rates are either equal or superior to ours. They also have lower cesarean rates. So much for our 'superior' system. | ||
| Cerebrus Maximus Citizen Username: Xtralargebrain Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2006  |
CLK, Is it possible that any of the health care needs of a child are the responsibility of the parent or is that just too much to ask? People that do not have insurance and that do not understand that the consequences of a sexual liason can be a baby and that cannot control their smoking and drinking behavior during a pregnancy NEED TO BE FORCIBLY STERILIZED if not altogether destroyed. All this crap about it being the "systems" fault is just another example of the disgusting behavior I see advertised in this forum. Your shameful failure to encourage personal responsibility makes me nauseous. | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2282 Registered: 6-2002 |
Cerebrus, your shameful failure to encourage community responsibility for the health of children makes me nauseous, too. If it were the parents suffering for their behavior, I could maybe see your point. But when it's helpless infants suffering, through no fault of their own, I feel very differently. Our national public policy of avoiding expenditures on real birth control initiatives bears some blame. Our "abstinence only" approach is a total failure, and we are paying the price via high infant mortality statistics. Public policy matters. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3047 Registered: 5-2004  |
Cerebus, By your logic, infant mortality should only be used to punish the parents, and is not an indicator of anything other than the selfishness (or ignorance) of the parents. That's all well and good, but what about actually doing something to prevent the infants from dying? On another thread you said you were cute and cuddly, and would lend a hand in a heartbeat (paraphrasing). But your comments here don't bear that out. No one has said the parents bear no responsibility. But you seem more concerned with punishing the parents than you are in keep the infant alive. | ||
| mjh Supporter Username: Mjh Post Number: 513 Registered: 5-2001 |
"People that do not have insurance and that do not understand that the consequences of a sexual liason can be a baby and that cannot control their smoking and drinking behavior during a pregnancy NEED TO BE FORCIBLY STERILIZED if not altogether destroyed" Cerebrus; 1. Can you explain how people without health insurance would be able to get sterilized? How do they access the health care system and schedule elective surgery? 2. Can you explain why you lump "people who do not have health insurance" in with people who smoke and/or drink while pregnant? 3. Do you really believe that people without health insurance should be punished through forced sterilization? Note to self: Do not respond to trolls. Get back to work. | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 264 Registered: 2-2006 |
it's always the wrong ones that don't make it ...right cerebrus | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1716 Registered: 10-2003 |
CLK, I've been out of the loop the past few days and don't know if Cerebrus is an alius or genuine dumb poster. Maybe you can help me. Is it possible that anyone in this day and age can be so limited as to believe that every person in every community has the same opportunities for education and healthcare as we do? Do people who are sophistcated enough to share their opinions on this Board seriously believe every U.S. child grows up learning about birth control and safe sex? That every adolescent girl knows if a man ejaculates inside of her she could get pregnant? That there are girls (and women) who get pregnant and don't even know it (probably missed sex ed, if it was offered) - therefore how can they even obtain prenatal care? I just can't fathom how anyone is so limited as to be so clueless to other cultures, especially when these other cultures are less than two miles from our front doors. Spend a few years with the boarder babies. You'll learn a lot about the people who live around you, and likely be a better, less judgmental person for it. | ||
| davel Citizen Username: Davel Post Number: 143 Registered: 6-2001 |
Cerebrus Maximus, recent research published in Behavioral Neuroscience demonstrates that brain size is related to promiscuous mating behavior. While this study focused on parasitic bird species, using your logic, are you a candidate for forced sterilization? | ||
| eliz Supporter Username: Eliz Post Number: 1456 Registered: 5-2001 |
I'm more focused on this:
It borders on hate speech. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 649 Registered: 7-2004  |
Cerebrus Maximus Citizen Username: Xtralargebrain Post Number: 46 Registered: 4-2006  | ||
| Bajou Citizen Username: Bajou Post Number: 270 Registered: 2-2006 |
Hi Poppa, nice poopa | ||
| STRAWling Citizen Username: Strawling Post Number: 7 Registered: 5-2006 |
Cerebrus Maximus makes a very important point about the responsibility and consequences of a sexual liaison. If Cerebrus's parents had exercised greater restraint or responsibility, we wouldn't be reading Cerebrus's rants. That's a benefit of sexual responsibility if ever I saw one. | ||
| CLK Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 2283 Registered: 6-2002 |
Big Poppa, that's cute ... las, I have no idea who or what cerebrus is - a variety of troll, certainly. Sorry for contributing to the feeding. Reading over other responses I wish I hadn't been so mild in my response. It certainly was hate speech that he/she/it used. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 890 Registered: 7-2003 |
Go ahead, shoot the messenger. Cerebrus may have gone a little over the top, but his main point about personal responsibility stands. Now, is anyone in this discussion going to address that, or will the usual suspects continue to pillory him as a troll/right-winger/unenlightened/whatever? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3055 Registered: 5-2004 |
Chris, but that's not what we're talking about. Are you saying that people in the US take on significantly less personal responsibility, and that that is the reason for the high infant mortality rate? | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 892 Registered: 7-2003 |
No. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3056 Registered: 5-2004 |
But that appears to be what brainiac is saying... Do you have an opinion of why our infant mortality rate is abysmal? I ask that in all sincerity. I do value your opinion. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 894 Registered: 7-2003 |
One word: Poverty. In America, the poor have little or no health insurance. They tend to have unhealthy lifestyles, including drugs, tobacco, alcohol, and copious amounts of junk food. This will tend to create a situation where the teenager in labor shows up in the emergency room in advanced labor, with zero prenatal care, drugs and alcohol in her system, so the poor fetus has the odds stacked against it from the word go. That will give you a very high infant mortality rate. In other countries with socialized medecine, the poor do get prenatal care, and they use it because it is free. So they would tend, I surmise, to take slightly better care of themselves and their unborn baby. Add that to the fact that the maldistribution of wealth in other countries is much narrower than it is here. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3067 Registered: 5-2004 |
Chrs, Thanks for the PL, and thanks for replying. I agree with much of what you say, as usual. Do you think those factors are worth addressing on this country? It sounds pretty socialist to me...  Honestly, I do wonder what can be done about the poor and so-called "working-poor" in this country that have no health insurance, and use emergency rooms as doctors' offices. Do you think the method that Massachusetts is using has merit? | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 903 Registered: 7-2003 |
I am not terribly familiar with the Massachusetts program. But I am from Canada, and am very familiar with the system there. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3069 Registered: 5-2004 |
Massachusetts recently passed a bill essentially requiring all residents to have health insurance. For those that cannot afford it, the state will subsidize it. I am not sure if they will subsidize people into a public health care insurer or a private one. I'm sure someone else can provide those details. But it will become illegal (and fine-able) to not have health insurance. Those who qualify for medicare and medicaid (or another state run program) are considered covered. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 910 Registered: 7-2003 |
Sounds like a really good idea. Works within the existing system. You really want to avoid socialized, euro-medicine if at all possible. It just creates a huge bureaucracy that sucks up ever more money. Another problem with socialized systems is that they usually do not allow any competition from the private sector. In Canada, for example, private health care is illegal. So people cannot pay for extra care even if they want to. Right back to Thomas Jefferson: 'The government that governs best is that which governs least.' | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3073 Registered: 5-2004 |
Chris, I know very little about the Canadian system. Does it really mean that you cannot go to a doctor and pay them directly for care? If you are really rich, can you hire a doctor full time? I do agree that a single payer system is not ideal, particularly if it's a bureacracy like the government. | ||
| ina Citizen Username: Ina Post Number: 357 Registered: 6-2001 |
"You really want to avoid socialized, euro-medicine if at all possible. It just creates a huge bureaucracy that sucks up ever more money" Chris, you apparently have no experience of European health care systems, either. US citizens pay more for healthcare per capita than ANY other nation, and still have outcomes like the thread starter. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 913 Registered: 7-2003 |
No disagreement there, ina. We spend 14% of our GDP on health, far more than any other nation. But, for those of us who have insurance, it is a far better system. It gives us a lot more freedom, and more choices, in addition to better quality service. Kinda tough on those uninsured or poor, though. | ||
| Elgato Citizen Username: Elgato Post Number: 60 Registered: 2-2004 |
In the UK I have seen, in the equivalent of CVS, notices and free leaflets on various health issues near the pharmaceutical counter. Those that are pregnancy-related advise women to take folic acid before considering conception (hence before a doctor's visit) and to stop smoking/drinking and to eat well. There is information about nursing (more common I believe in Europe) and the importance of pre-natal vitamins and to continue taking these while nursing. You can even rent 'tens' machines for pain relief during childbirth from the pharmacy chain. Much of this advice would not be available to Americans until after the first doctor's visit. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6140 Registered: 5-2001  |
Elgato, Many of the drug addicts and teens who contribute to the high infant mortality rate here in the US are barely literate so the little signs and leaflets would be useless to them. Either way, they probably wouldn't be bothered to take vitamins even if they were free. | ||
| Cerebrus Maximus Citizen Username: Xtralargebrain Post Number: 51 Registered: 4-2006 |
Mem, This is precisely why forced sterilization is necessary. No amount of education or free services will stop these slutty monsters from conceiving and victimizing an innocent baby. | ||
| Mr. Big Poppa Citizen Username: Big_poppa Post Number: 679 Registered: 7-2004 |
forced sterilization is necessary or destruction (i.e. murder), right CM? | ||
| Cerebrus Maximus Citizen Username: Xtralargebrain Post Number: 52 Registered: 4-2006 |
Message to all women: Please answer this simple question. Is your reproductive behavior your business ONLY or do you want others to participate in that process? Since you have advocated pregancy leave, we can only conclude that your reproductive behavior is NOT a private matter and that you need help managing the choices you have made. Moreover, the postings in this thread clearly suggest that a woman simply cant be trusted to even understand and manage her body. One poster, "LAS" suggested that the problem with women getting pregnant couldn't be due to the act of hundreds of episodes of intercourse but rather the fact that the "system" had not taught females about the consequences of a male ejaculating inside her. Can't you get why men oppress and objectify you? Why do you puzzle over the "glass ceiling"? Its because you wont take control of your bodies and take responsibilty for your reproductive behavior. I'm trying to honestly help you. If you want respect please stop crippling corporations with pregnancy leave pay and stop polluting our message board with your non-sense about the failure of the "system". | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 3083 Registered: 5-2004 |
I think CM is going for Most Inflammatory Post. I particularly like this part: Especially the "our message board" comment, from someone who has been posting here for less than a month, targeted at people who have been posting here for years. I guess we needed a Straw for the non-political Soapbox... | ||
| The Notorious S.L.K. Citizen Username: Scrotisloknows Post Number: 1394 Registered: 10-2005 |
How ironic... MOLers are ready to call the PC cops on CM for his "hate speech" suggesting forced sterlization and or the destruction of highly irresponsible mothers. But if those mothers decide the abort their child due to their iresponsibility then it wouldn't even faze them. -SLK Oh, and about this "hate speech" charge. What do you plan to do with CM, spank him? How funny...only in Maplewood... Thanks CM, you definitely take things in in a different direction but at least you stir up the pot.... | ||
| Cerebrus Maximus Citizen Username: Xtralargebrain Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2006 |
Thanks for your support SLK. As you can understand, this framework of political correctness needs to be deconstructed and people need to get real. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 6142 Registered: 5-2001 |
Las's point may be that the high infant motality rate is a symptom of one of the many the real illnesses we suffer from, one of being a country that basically ignores and even despises the poor and uneducated, with no real programs in place for them to rise above it. Note that this country is controlled mainly by by men (white men) because women and minorities are all stuck at that "glass ceiling" created by those nice white men. Funny how that, isn't it mr. cerebrusless? | ||
| las Citizen Username: Las Post Number: 1723 Registered: 10-2003 |
No amount of education or free services will stop these slutty monsters from conceiving and victimizing an innocent baby. Watch what you say, Cerebrus. I happen to be one of those slutty monsters and I don't victimize innocent babies. Only the babies deserving of victimization. Geez. |
