| Author |
Message |
    
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2884
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:45 am: | 
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http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=nation_world&id=4173022 |
Alleygater
Citizen
Username: Alleygater
Post Number: 2011
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:30 am: |
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Is this entrapment? Very many of us could go to jail even THINKING about how we would answer that. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14268
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:52 am: |
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It's "whom." Whom is an object whereas who is a subject.
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themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2886
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:11 pm: |
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Pretty gross mistake for a headline writer. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14272
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 12:14 pm: |
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Some people knowingly use the incorrect term because some perceive correct grammar to sound snooty.
The funny thing is that the word "whom" often gets that reaction, whereas it's usually subjects, not objects, that do the same. For instance, someone ask, "who is Tom Reingold?" and I would say, "I am he" which is correct but sounds both wrong and snooty.
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hch
Citizen
Username: Hch
Post Number: 266
Registered: 8-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:01 pm: |
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Forget the headline....
What the hell was the teacher thinking? |
Eats Shoots & Leaves
Citizen
Username: Mfpark
Post Number: 3349
Registered: 9-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:27 pm: |
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I would want to kill the guy in the pop-up ad that came on when I was trying to read the article. |
stefano
Citizen
Username: Stefano
Post Number: 500
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 1:35 pm: |
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I would want to kill the person who made the pop up ad and the person who paid him or her to make it. I would do it by holding them underwater for a very long time or until they no longer tried to pop up. |
Monster©
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 3200
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 2:26 pm: |
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I pop up all the time, I just can't help it.... |
kathy
Citizen
Username: Kathy
Post Number: 1295
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 7:38 pm: |
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For a while, 'whom' had practically disappeared from use. Now I'm starting to see it in places where 'who' is actually correct. I blame it on computerized editing. |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14295
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 8:47 pm: |
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objective pronouns:
me, you, him, her, them, whom
subjective pronouns:
I, you he, she, they, who
"Whom" and "him" and "them" are all objects and all end in the letter 'm' which you can use as a mnemonic for remembering whether to use "who" or "whom" in your sentence.
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John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 55
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 10:37 pm: |
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kathy,
Hypercorrection, akin to the superabundance of "he/she/I" for "him/her/me" as in "She gave the money to him and I." Makes me shudder.
"Whom" is nearly dead. I have a friend that has done some work on the speech patterns of the modern teen. If that headline bothers you, don't ask what she found out.  |
Monster©
Supporter
Username: Monster
Post Number: 3212
Registered: 7-2002
| | Posted on Monday, May 15, 2006 - 11:05 pm: |
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language is an ever changing beast, get used to it. |
stefano
Citizen
Username: Stefano
Post Number: 505
Registered: 2-2002
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:20 am: |
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Whom cares! |
The Soulful Mr T
Citizen
Username: Howardt
Post Number: 1939
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 6:33 am: |
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Here's an easy way to determine whether "who" or "whom" is appropriate.
"Whom" should always follow a preposition. Otherwise, "who." Pretty foolproof although not a panacea.
"With whom was he seen?" |
Tom Reingold
Supporter
Username: Noglider
Post Number: 14296
Registered: 1-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:17 am: |
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First, this is unclear. Are you saying prepositions should always have "whom" follow them? Or are you saying "whom" goes after preprositions and nowhere else?
Second, it's wrong.
"The guy I came in with, who had long hair, disappeared suddenly."
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The Soulful Mr T
Citizen
Username: Howardt
Post Number: 1941
Registered: 11-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 7:32 am: |
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Nope. Nope. Nope. The proper way to express that banal sentiment would be:
The rather long-haired gentleman with whom I arrived disappeared quite suddenly. I hope he hasn't met with nefariousness or foul play."
I meant that AS A RULE OF THUMB, after a prepositon, whom should be used. |
themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2889
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:51 am: |
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"Whom" should always follow a preposition. Otherwise, "who." Pretty foolproof although not a panacea.
Here's an exception:
The guard, whom Arthur respected, was no longer on duty.
The guard, who was drunk, was no longer on duty.
"whom Arthur respected" is some kind of adjectival phrase, and although "guard" is the subject of ther sentence, it is the object of the phrase. |
Hoops
Citizen
Username: Hoops
Post Number: 1350
Registered: 10-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 10:57 am: |
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For Whom the Bell Tolls -
it tolls for theese thread...
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themp
Supporter
Username: Themp
Post Number: 2892
Registered: 12-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 11:59 am: |
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I mean guard is the object of the phrase as represented by the pronoun "whom".
I think. This is 10th grade stuff and I can't remember. |
Rastro
Citizen
Username: Rastro
Post Number: 3133
Registered: 5-2004
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 12:01 pm: |
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The easiest way, I find, to remember this, is to replace Whom or Who with Him/Her or He/She. He was drunk. Who was drunk? Whom Arthur respected. Arthur respected him.
Where was the shoolhouse rock episode about Who and Whom??? How can I possibly remember this stuff without one?
And what about the over- or under-use of commas? |
Debby
Citizen
Username: Debby
Post Number: 2301
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 1:58 pm: |
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Rastro - I also learned to determine via he/him.
I'm generally pretty accurate in my grammar, but can wholly relate to John's complaint about hypercorrection. I have an uncle (who has Asperger's Syndrome, BTW) who speaks in this "hypercorrect" way (i.e., when the doorbell rings he'll say, "Is that they?") and I find it very awkward. |
John
Citizen
Username: Jdm
Post Number: 56
Registered: 3-2006
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 4:40 pm: |
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Debby,
By "hypercorrect" I meant incorrect.
Your uncle is just plain old correct (or archaically correct, anyway).
"Just between you and I" is wrong. "It is I" is not, though I'll bet you can't find anyone who doesn't say "It's me" these days. |
Debby
Citizen
Username: Debby
Post Number: 2302
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 5:46 pm: |
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Sure I can...my Uncle Jerry |
Debby
Citizen
Username: Debby
Post Number: 2303
Registered: 5-2001
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 16, 2006 - 5:48 pm: |
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BTW - I like the term archaically correct |
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